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Canada's place in world football


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I like this idea solely on the basis that it will force us to raise our game to a better level. In order to play like the best, you have to play with them. For instance, I believe a country like Israel has directly benefited from being included in UEFA.

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2 Questions for those that want this

1) If Canada was more like USA/Mexico, would you still want this to happen? i.e. Going to the World Cup as often as we currently miss it, expected to make knockout stage, real long darkhorse to maybe win.

2) Do you believe Canada can become like USA/Mexico WITHOUT doing this?

I think Canada can become quality without the need for this steep increase in difficulty simply to qualify and winning the regional championship. I think we have been poor to do problems with our FA and lack of professional teams in our country to provide development for players at home.

I think we'll be a much better nation in the next decade and beyond, a regular 30-50 in the FIFA ranking, maybe creep higher or fall below from time to time.

Once we become that team, we'll get more friendly matches with stronger int'l clubs and earn respect. We'll get to play more games in the Gold Cup due and possibly start winning them with a bit of regularity. Get into Confederations Cups...Maybe be the nation that gets invited to Copa America?

If we had it like that..and clearly I think we CAN have this, not sure if we will, be we can....I wouldn't want to give it up.

If we merged, even if we improve, we won't be going to World Cups, winning regionals or going to Confederation cups.

I think we're set to move either way, but I think we're better off winning as much as we can.

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The thing I like most about this Cup of the Americas is our chances of hosting it would be really good, I'm sure we would be near the top of the list. The prospect of hosting one of the biggest tourneys in the world is unreal and it would do a lot for the game in this country, it could even act as that next step towards hosting the World Cup.

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I don't want it to happen. We're fine where we are, plus we are 100% bound to increase our NTs quality in the next decades, to the point where we will be serious contenders at each WCQ. Participate in the Copa America? Why not build the Gold Cup to the point where it has great history and prestige of its own?

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1) If Canada was more like USA/Mexico, would you still want this to happen?

Yes, absolutely. In fact, I'd want it more.

If Canada was more like the USA and Mexico we'd actually be competitive at an expanded Copa America and capable of not just qualifying but regularly making it out of the group stage as well. Further, if we were ever to get good enough to catch up to the USA and Mexico we'd probably be making the World Cup from an expanded "Americas" region about 50% of the time. Finally, if you can imagine Canada catching up to the USA and Mexico is it any less imaginable that all three could catch up - if those two haven't already - the second tier of CONMEBOL nations behind Brazil and Argentina?

In the end if we have any long term ambitions beyond simply qualifying for the World Cup Finals - the Americans certainly do - this move would be beneficial. Logistical (travel) and political issues could obviously prevent it but it's something I'd be really sad if our leadership were against based on a short term desire to have an easier route to the Finals.

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For Canada, if this happened, the "new" Copa America would become the qualifying goal. I doubt Canada would ever make it to the World Cup qualifying out of an all-Americas confederation, let alone the likes of Panama, Guatemala, Cuba, and the myriad minnows in central america and the Caribbean. Also, the travel would be atrocious. Can you imagine if Vancouver was in the same champion league group as say, Velez Sarsfield in Buenos Aires? That's about 11,000 km and a 19-hour flight.

They could adopt the Asian CL's format. They have an East/West divide all the way to the finals. China, Japan, Korea, and Australia all grouped together. Using that format, the trip to BA would be for the finals so I think we'd all take it.

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I'd love to see a Football Confederation of the Americas or something like that :)

I think CONCACAF wouldn't want this - the Gold Cup is every two years and brings tons on cash. Copa America is only 4 years. I'd like to see it happening, but I don't think it will - in my lifetime.

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They could adopt the Asian CL's format. They have an East/West divide all the way to the finals. China, Japan, Korea, and Australia all grouped together. Using that format, the trip to BA would be for the finals so I think we'd all take it.

Then what's the point of change then? Just have the 2 confederations play their tournaments and set up a "Super Cup" between the winners.

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I like this idea solely on the basis that it will force us to raise our game to a better level. In order to play like the best, you have to play with them. For instance, I believe a country like Israel has directly benefited from being included in UEFA.

Has it though? Israel are a middle of the pack UEFA nation who routinely finish 3rd or 4th in their qualifying groups and have never qualified for a EC or WC as a member of UEFA. They were an Asian powerhouse back in the 50's and 60's and probably would have continued to be if it weren't for politics having them expelled from AFC. The amount of money they would have pulled in from the 90's onward by making the WC repeatedly would probably have their program well ahead of where they are now.

To find a parallel with Canada, are we better off trying to qualify against South American teams and failing, thereby getting stronger by playing stronger teams? Or do we get stronger beating weaker teams, qualifying and pocketing the money to expand our programs?

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At the end of the day, Canada needs two things. Quality matches and Quality refereeing. We're starting to get some for the former and Almost none for the latter. Merger would provide increased exposure to both and even though we may get our ass kicked for a few more years, at the end of the day, we'll be better for it.

Plus I'm sick and tired of seeing US and Mexico qualifying for WC by virtue of being part of CONCACAF.

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Has it though? Israel are a middle of the pack UEFA nation who routinely finish 3rd or 4th in their qualifying groups and have never qualified for a EC or WC as a member of UEFA. They were an Asian powerhouse back in the 50's and 60's and probably would have continued to be if it weren't for politics having them expelled from AFC. The amount of money they would have pulled in from the 90's onward by making the WC repeatedly would probably have their program well ahead of where they are now.

To find a parallel with Canada, are we better off trying to qualify against South American teams and failing, thereby getting stronger by playing stronger teams? Or do we get stronger beating weaker teams, qualifying and pocketing the money to expand our programs?

Not sure if they would have continued to make it to WC's as they were in the Oceanic Federation (not a necessarily tough group by any means) during the 80's and couldn't qualify either. In UEFA they've risen from 3-4 tier team to a 2-3 tier team and shown some consistency in getting results against the toughest of competition.

That's the question of this thread isn't it? Does Canada go for WC money in an easier Fed and improve that way or does it guarantee home dates versus Brazil, Argentina etc in WCQ and make money that way while still improving? I wouldn't be surprised these days if Israel does make an EC or WC coming out of UEFA. Likewise if Canada were to consistently play against tougher competition with higher scrutiny as a result, a top 7-8 finish would be a good thing.

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Not sure if they would have continued to make it to WC's as they were in the Oceanic Federation (not a necessarily tough group by any means) during the 80's and couldn't qualify either. In UEFA they've risen from 3-4 tier team to a 2-3 tier team and shown some consistency in getting results against the toughest of competition.

That's the question of this thread isn't it? Does Canada go for WC money in an easier Fed and improve that way or does it guarantee home dates versus Brazil, Argentina etc in WCQ and make money that way while still improving? I wouldn't be surprised these days if Israel does make an EC or WC coming out of UEFA. Likewise if Canada were to consistently play against tougher competition with higher scrutiny as a result, a top 7-8 finish would be a good thing.

Israel only competed in Oceania for the 1986 and 1990 qualifiers. They finished behind Australia in 1986 and won the Oceania group in 1990 before losing the playoff to Colombia. Since '98 they have finished 3rd in their European group every time except 2010 when they finished 4th. In Euro qualifying they've finished 5th, 2nd (lost playoff), 3rd, 4th and likely 3rd this time around. So basically they've been treading water for the last 13 years. Could we expect the same? Would some of the fence jumpers re-think their move if we were playing in a combined fed? If we improved to the point of battling with the mid-pack SA teams how often could we expect to beat out our competitors for a spot? Would not other CONCACAF teams like Costa Rica and Honduras also improve themselves with the increase competition? All legit concerns....

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Israel only competed in Oceania for the 1986 and 1990 qualifiers. They finished behind Australia in 1986 and won the Oceania group in 1990 before losing the playoff to Colombia. Since '98 they have finished 3rd in their European group every time except 2010 when they finished 4th. In Euro qualifying they've finished 5th, 2nd (lost playoff), 3rd, 4th and likely 3rd this time around. So basically they've been treading water for the last 13 years. Could we expect the same? Would some of the fence jumpers re-think their move if we were playing in a combined fed? If we improved to the point of battling with the mid-pack SA teams how often could we expect to beat out our competitors for a spot? Would not other CONCACAF teams like Costa Rica and Honduras also improve themselves with the increase competition? All legit concerns....

yeah.. I can see what you mean by treading water. But the other part of the equation is the access to the better leagues and competitions. More Israelis in top Euro leagues, more Israeli teams playing Champions leagues means a better team top to bottom. Maybe staying in CONCACAF and the development of our champions league with MLS growing is a good thing and hopefully we can get to that point. But it'll take a long time. The higher scrutiny with joining CONMEBOL might be the kick in the ass the CSA needs.

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