Cheeta Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 In the tale, Jack traded his family's last possession of value - their cow - for some magic beans. His mother calls him a fool, and throws them away. They end up growing into a giant beanstock, with which Jack climbs to up into the clouds. There, he ends up taking and bringing back A) a goose which can lay golden eggs a large amount of gold and silver and C) a magic harp. Trading for magic beans... ended up working out pretty well. LOL. Yeah, well that's why it's a Fairy Tale. It's very much seperated from real world realities. We don't know what's coming down the pipe. Maybe Winter & Co. have something in the works, don't know, but if they don't they're too stupid to be tolerated. Yes, it is odvious given things DDR would have to be moved because sure as **** a decision was made that he wasn't going to be accommodated so there were no other options. Timing is everything though. If your A+ goal scorer is shown the door you better damned well have a goal scorer to immediately replace him. Not in May, not in June, now. Otherwise the season is a right off before it's even going and that just won't do. Not if as a manager you want to keep your job. Who wins in this trade remains to be seen but as of today, April 1st, 2011, every single club in MLS has to feel more comfortable adjusting tactics (as they wish) against Toronto and less comfortable adjusting their tactics against New York. That's not a positive indicator of the value of this trade for TFC. Least not in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Big shock on this out west is... They actually reported it on CBC local radio Edmonton. Yep thats right. CBC Oilers/Eskies Radio actually commented on a soccer story! Okay so the mini world cup is in town, but even so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havoc88 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 All Winter has to do is now tell Maicon to shoot from everywhere, avoid passing to teammates unless absolutely necessary, have tunnel vision and try to do everything yourself, and Maicon will score lots of goals. I mean, it worked for De Ro last year. booooooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 TFC will be just fine without Dero. I called this last week after I saw his body language in the Timbers game. Other players will step up to the plate and score and our midfield will be stronger without him. I liked what I saw last week from the mids and forwards and once we shore up the back four we will be fine. Winter and staff are assemblying a quality young team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Wow. Quite a shocker. I didn't see this coming. As people on the board know I'm a big DeRo fan and disputes aside he always brought it on game day. I hope things work out for TFC. I'm sure DeRo and Cann will be getting any promises in writing from now on as they should have done in the first place. Trust is for your family not business and sports is a business. Like others have posted I'm slightly in awe of the lineup NY has assembled on an MLS salary cap budget. If they can play together well and withstand injuries etc they could be scary.. we shall see at season's end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 He may have had a strong game against Portland but I tend not to judge players on one game. He is a defensive liability by any measure and that is why he is more effective on a good team like Houston that has other players to cover his mistakes and allow him to roam. I also think he is in large part to blame for TFC having only one goal scorer. So much of TFC's attack is destroyed because he is hogging on to the ball, not passing and losing one on one battles. In other words, even offensively he is only a positive influence when he is actually scoring himself, most of the rest of the time he was an offensive liability. Now it is possible that Winter might have been able to influence him in these regards in a positive way, the layoff for (I think) Santos goal was nice, but if that was the case I am not sure Winter would trade him. Since I am not a TFC fan, I would prefer this deal does not go through because I think it is a pretty even deal for this year and strongly in TFC's favour in the future. You're right Grizzly. At times last year, he made some incredibly bonehad plays that led to offensive opportunities for the opposition and TFC is getting two extremely good young prospects. It's a good deal for Winter. DeRo has made some nice assists in the past apart from the one you mention but he has also destroyed many plays through his myopia. This is going to work out well for TFC. NY will do well this year and maybe next but not even DeRo can last forever and with Henry, Marques and DeRo aging fast, NYRB has to win now. That is what they want thus the logic of this move form their point of view. For TFC, long term, Winter and Mariner have done well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I think this is a move that was necessary for the club to move forward in the long term. There are too many examples of clubs that held onto aging stars for too long including some in TO. It's also why many former stars end up in the league. That is that they had been dropped by their previous club or that previous club felt the offer from NA was one they didn't think was worth matching. While DeRo may have been fine for a year or two, I'm not sure how well he would have fit into the system that Winter wants to install at Toronto FC. I think it's funny how some are so quick to dismiss Winter and de Klerk as flakes, including some media types. It is not possible to stay employed as coaches within the Ajax system as long as those two without having a high degree of technical knowledge and an ability to both identify talent early and develop young players. Add to that Winter's pedigree as having competed at the highest levels of the game and it's not a wonder that Jurgen Klinsman would have made the recommendation. As for Winter and TFC, it's still going to take time. I suspect there will be a number of players moving in and out still. Some will only spend a short time in Toronto. But over time, some gems will be found, some current players will be better than we thought and some academy players will surprise (probably the greatest beneficiaries of this coaching staff). In the end, I fully expect TFC to be a much stronger team by the end of the year and with a much better future than it had coming out of last year. Will they make the playoffs, who knows? But I suspect Leaf fans are feeling much better about their team now than at the beginning of the year and they are also unlikely to make the playoffs. MLS is a good league but not a great league. It is getting better but it still has a way to go. The fact that there are many leagues around the world that are equal or better means that there are a number of ways to get affordable players. That is Mariner's primary role and with the network of contacts of the whole staff, I have confidence that this whole process is going to work well. As for DeRo in NY, every game is played with one ball. It will be interesting how that experiment turns out. Red Bull could end up becoming a dysfunctional collection of stars just as easily as NY's version of the galacticos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpoma Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 Is DeRo right? http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/TorontoFC/2011/04/01/17847571.html He does not paint a nice picture of MLSE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 ^ As always, in a situation where multiple sides of the story are being told the truth likely lies somewhere in between. I have particular trouble believing the line that Houston was asking to do whatever they could to keep him, giving the stories that came out around that time, and the fact they let him walk for Julius James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamR Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 It doesn't take much to realize MLSE is only about money and that's it. These teams need owners who ALSO care about winning, nobody is naive enough to think an owner won't have money as the top priority, but to simply NOT care about results is disgusting. I'm glad I never gave much respect to teachers when I was in school. What a foolish comment. Do you think that teachers actually make decisions about what there pension plan does? How teachers become the target of fans from a sports team owned by their pension plan because of how it it is run baffles me. Unlike sports figures teachers are not able to negotiate their contracts in the first place and they are definitely unable to re-negotiate it half way through after they have had a good couple of years or someone has come in to make more than them. Furthermore they are very unlikely to ever even crack the six figure salary range let alone half a million. I'm as big a sports fan as the next guy but when an athlete signs a contract and then wants to renegotiate after a good season just makes my blood boil. If you want the security of a long term contract then honour it and if you want to take the chance that you will have a great season then sign a one-year contract and negotiate a new one when that is ending. Is DeRo right? http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/TorontoFC/2011/04/01/17847571.html He does not paint a nice picture of MLSE The more I read about this the more I am expecting that Winter played the largest role in this. He's a new manager coming in and he needs to establish himself as the alpha dog in the minds of the players. Keeping DeRo around threatens this because of his experience, success and most importantly his outspoken confident nature. A great kind of player in an established team but a risk for a manager in Winter's position. Furthermore, if the options from DeRo's point of view were renegotiation which would likely lead to a DP contract or leave the team then I can imagine Winter would prefer to hand pick who he wants for a DP position on his team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 What a foolish comment. Do you think that teachers actually make decisions about what there pension plan does? How teachers become the target of fans from a sports team owned by their pension plan because of how it it is run baffles me. Unlike sports figures teachers are not able to negotiate their contracts in the first place and they are definitely unable to re-negotiate it half way through after they have had a good couple of years or someone has come in to make more than them. Furthermore they are very unlikely to ever even crack the six figure salary range let alone half a million. I'm as big a sports fan as the next guy but when an athlete signs a contract and then wants to renegotiate after a good season just makes my blood boil. If you want the security of a long term contract then honour it and if you want to take the chance that you will have a great season then sign a one-year contract and negotiate a new one when that is ending. ^ Nailed it. Particularly the last bit on long-term security vs short-term opportunity, but I also appreciate your defense of educators! Undoubtedly MLSE comes off looking poorly in this affair, but De Rosario also needs to take responsibility for his own decisions and judgments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Oranje Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 My feeling is that DeRo is talking primarily how the previous regime treated him. At the same time, I am sure the decision to move him came from Winter and was strictly a soccer decision. BTW, the alpha dog stuff is over stating it. There is no way DeRo would consider himself to be above Winter in terms of experience and technical knowledge. No one who has survived in the game as long as DeRo would allow themselves to think that way, especially if he has thoughts of going to Europe still. MLS is still a B league in the grand scheme of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamR Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 My feeling is that DeRo is talking primarily how the previous regime treated him. At the same time, I am sure the decision to move him came from Winter and was strictly a soccer decision. BTW, the alpha dog stuff is over stating it. There is no way DeRo would consider himself to be above Winter in terms of experience and technical knowledge. No one who has survived in the game as long as DeRo would allow themselves to think that way, especially if he has thoughts of going to Europe still. MLS is still a B league in the grand scheme of things. The mention of alpha dog wasn't meant to suggest that any player would actively or willingly take on that role but as in many things it's often how other people see it that is most important. It would have done Winter no good at all if teammates and media were to defer to DeRo on things that should be Winter's domain... and given his experience, success and outspoken confidence this could possibly have happened to the detriment of everything he is hoping to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 This Tchani is going to be a good pick up. He fits a big need on this team: a physically dominant ball winner allowing JDG to do what he does best, link the play. Mariner's found his Shalrie Joseph facsimile (though probably not in the goal scoring department). And his presence relegates Sturgis to the press box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Is DeRo right? http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/TorontoFC/2011/04/01/17847571.html He does not paint a nice picture of MLSE That is true but he also does not paint a very nice picture of himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guppy Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 I wonder about his moods .. he said going into this season he was happy.. but he wasn't. Should they have paid him more? That is the question.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 ^I don't think paying big dough to the wrong guys helped the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 DDR has a history of winning, scoring spectacular goals and standing up for his team mates. The clubs he's played for loved the guy. Houston wanted to keep him and I'm sure, would have been in the running this time around. TFC has a history of screwing over great players, dissing Canadian talent and going through coaches like sieve. I'm going with DeRo on this one. Too much double talk from MLSE to be believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 DDR has a history of winning, scoring spectacular goals and standing up for his team mates. The clubs he's played for loved the guy. Houston wanted to keep him and I'm sure, would have been in the running this time around. TFC has a history of screwing over great players, dissing Canadian talent and going through coaches like sieve. I'm going with DeRo on this one. Too much double talk from MLSE to be believed. My recollection of events is Houston hardly seemed to care if he stayed with them or not. They certainly were not willing to give in to his demands to keep him. Also contrary to the rosy and false picture of him as a great team guy that got along with teammates and coaches everywhere that some posters have asserted, he actually had problems right from the start of his career when his coaches in Germany did not like his attitude and stopped playing him (how much better of a player would he be today if he had stuck it out in the German 2nd division and risen through the ranks in Germany? However, German coaches were certainly not going to accept his prima donna attitude). He seems to have got along well with Yallop and possibly Kinnear (though the latter did not try very hard to retain him) but that seems to be the exception not the rule. I don't doubt that there were a lot of unprofessional things at TFC especially under Mo, but this seems a lot like the pot calling the kettle black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdroze Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 So what I'm wondering is, who's the captain now? Just to answer my own question, Maicon Santos has apparently been confirmed as (honest-to-goodness, full-time, not-just-subbing-in-for-one-game) captain. A little surprised by that myself; wasn't aware that Santos's English was good enough to really take on that role. But I like the guy, and hope he can do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Just to answer my own question, Maicon Santos has apparently been confirmed as (honest-to-goodness, full-time, not-just-subbing-in-for-one-game) captain. A little surprised by that myself; wasn't aware that Santos's English was good enough to really take on that role. But I like the guy, and hope he can do the job. A bit of a message to JDG as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Yeah... Well, I guess we remember things differently... Houston did want him back though, so I guess there isn't much to Houston not caring about having him in the team. Man, I just don't remember him having a prima donna attitiude?!! Seriously?! Exaggeration just a bit aren't we? The man was a trailblazer in the day(as far as europe goes) There just weren't that many Canadian guys sticking over there. He was there with Bent right? Who did we have in Germany at the time? Who ever stuck? He's a '77 or '78.... Who was playing in Germany back then? It'd be different today for sure. I don't doubt he should have gone to europe at some point but I'm thinking if he had the agent he has now, he'd have gone. Maybe Ed can remember his ego getting in the way of making it in Germany... I don't remember it that way at all? Bottom line, he got shafted by TFC... Just another in a long line of TFC players getting shafted by the club... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 DeRo and Bent went over to play for Zwickau in the Eastern part of Germany in 97/98. They encountered some subtle and not-so-subtle racism and were homesick (they apparently missed their mothers home cooking). When the club was relegated from Bundelsiga II after that season, Bent was sold to MLS and joined Colorado, DeRo was expected to play in the Regionalliga with Zwickau but refused and was forced to sit out an entire season. He joined A-League side Charleston in '99 after his contract with Zwickau expired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Keeper Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 All Winter has to do is now tell Maicon to shoot from everywhere, avoid passing to teammates unless absolutely necessary, have tunnel vision and try to do everything yourself, and Maicon will score lots of goals. I mean, it worked for De Ro last year. lol Oh Jesus, After watching the game today I cant believe how phrophetic your post was about Santos... This is all I was ever saying, Im not against trading DeRo, I just think they should have gotten some forwards for him or atleast more quality than what they did. Winter would have been smarter if he waited to see how the other forwards settle in first, then traded DeRo if all looked well... What I saw today worries me about our goalscoring... Lets hope Martina is up to the challenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Pleasantly surprised that this trade was still possible given he is getting on a bit now in age terms. Having NYRB use a DP roster spot on a player from the CMNT should allay any lingering fears about Canadian players being able to get roster spots with American sides. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation, it's too bad Mo Johnston is probably blocked from responding to some of the specific allegations based on a post-sacking confidentiality agreement with MLSE, DeRosario had to go after the cheque signing gesture. Nick Dasovic and Earl Cochrane probably blew their chances of keeping their interim posts based on how they handled the aftermath of that so at least four careers may have been stalled or ended by this whole saga on the managerial side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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