Can MLS get Canada back into the World Cup?

[Kurosawa1555362267]

I think the question has to be "is MLS better for Canada's national team than the alternative?"

Not even the most optimistic Canadian league proponent (me) thinks that Canada could create a national MLS-level league serving exclusively Canadian interests out of thin air. The alternative to having the Vancouver Whitecaps in MLS is having the Vancouver Whitecaps in the NASL. The alternative to having Toronto FC in MLS is having the Toronto Lynx in the NASL or USL PRO. The MLS teams make more money, play at a somewhat higher level, play more games, and both play and train in better facilities. They're more stable to fluctuations in popularity or competitiveness. They provide a reasonable home for talented Canadian players fallen on hard times (I'm thinking of Adrian Cann and Terry Dunfield here) where they can play themselves back into national team contention. These are all positives.

MLS is better for Americans than it is for Canadians; that's obvious. But it's better for Canadians than what we had.

+1

[ted]

MLS is better for Americans than it is for Canadians; that's obvious. But it's better for Canadians than what we had.

Exactly.

[Guest Ed]

Based on that performance by TFC, they should consider a cap on the number of useless Dutchmen on (and off) the field.

[ChrisB]

Based on that performance by TFC, they should consider a cap on the number of useless Dutchmen on (and off) the field.

And every team should be plundering the Swiss league...

Seriously, it will not HURT the game in Canada. If the three academies start producing 15 players a year, one of those every year will be bound to be decent. That will add significantly to our depth.

[squizz1402635577]

MLS is better for Americans than it is for Canadians; that's obvious. But it's better for Canadians than what we had.

This x 1,000. There is no reasonable counter-argument.

[scoots]

This x 1,000. There is no reasonable counter-argument.

I agree, the MLS is sanctioned by the USSF, so from a player development standpoint they are focused on developing American players. The protectionist politics of the USFF are only natural and to be expected, we’ve seen that influence everything from MLS roster rules to the D2 league sanctioning. They aren’t being deliberately anti-Canadian they’re just serving their own interests.

I wouldn’t over-react to the short-term reduction in the Canadian player quota for Canadian MLS clubs. The future of soccer in Canada depends on these clubs being successful, and if that means they need extra roster flexibility for a few years I accept that. Its really illustrative of just how far behind the US we are in terms of player development. I for one believe that the MLS academies will enable us to catch up quickly. I think the fact they also announced the formation of joint committee to review Canadian roster rules and player development speaks to the growing Canadian influence on the league.

Its important that we distinguish between the MLS and the USSF. The MLS is professional league sanctioned by the USSF and certainly the two work very closely on player development and overall building the game in the US. But the MLS is also a business. And the business side of the MLS has figured out that 3 Canadian cities are going to be very lucrative markets. When Montreal joins the league next year, the 3 Canadian team will represent 16% of the franchises in the league but I bet they will generate >30% of the revenue for the league. That’s huge! Canadian teams aren’t marginal small market clubs in the MLS - they’re big money clubs. With the Canadian market represents about a 1/3 of the leagues revenue, the CSA (which sanctions these clubs and the league access to Canada) is certainly going to have growing influence in how the league supports and accommodates Canadian player development. Money talks and when comes to Soccer, Canada is a ‘cash cow’ for the MLS. If the CSA is smart they will bide their time, and when their leverage is at its greatest with the league they should move to get Canadian players treated as domestics like Americans on all MLS rosters. That would be a big win.

One final thought, I believe that the Canadian MLS academies will be some of the best in the MLS. And that’s not just because Vancouver and Toronto are making big dollar investments. Its also because the environment for elite youth athlete is very different in Canada then it is in the US. In Canada hockey is really the only sport for which we have a complete athlete development programs and infrastructure (in terms of player develop, pathways to progression) . In the US soccer is competing with baseball, basketball and football for the interest of elite youth athletes, and those other sports benefit from greater cultural relevance, highly developed youth athlete development systems with lucrative financial opportunities (NCAA scholarships and huge pro contracts). Canadian athletes face real obstacles to progress to elite levels in most of the popular team sports(aside from hockey). So in a sense Soccer faces less competition for the interests of elite youth athletes in Canada. The MLS Academies will provide the first real domestic development and progression opportunity for any sport outside of hockey. I think we’ll see that proves to be a real advantage for Canadian MLS teams as well as Canadian Soccer beginning in about 4+ years… about the same timeframe the Lenarduzzi suggested in the article that started this thread.

[killgod]

The MLS will gain financially by the success of Canada on the world stage. The more success Canada finds internationally will help turn more people on to the game, which is towards the MLS. The MLS would be smart to find ways to support Canada as best they can, I'd wager that Canada making a world cup would turn that current year MLS season into a financial boom for the Canadian clubs.

[mulliganl]

I agree, the MLS is sanctioned by the USSF, so from a player development standpoint they are focused on developing American players. The protectionist politics of the USFF are only natural and to be expected, we’ve seen that influence everything from MLS roster rules to the D2 league sanctioning. They aren’t being deliberately anti-Canadian they’re just serving their own interests.

I wouldn’t over-react to the short-term reduction in the Canadian player quota for Canadian MLS clubs. The future of soccer in Canada depends on these clubs being successful, and if that means they need extra roster flexibility for a few years I accept that. Its really illustrative of just how far behind the US we are in terms of player development. I for one believe that the MLS academies will enable us to catch up quickly. I think the fact they also announced the formation of joint committee to review Canadian roster rules and player development speaks to the growing Canadian influence on the league.

Its important that we distinguish between the MLS and the USSF. The MLS is professional league sanctioned by the USSF and certainly the two work very closely on player development and overall building the game in the US. But the MLS is also a business. And the business side of the MLS has figured out that 3 Canadian cities are going to be very lucrative markets. When Montreal joins the league next year, the 3 Canadian team will represent 16% of the franchises in the league but I bet they will generate >30% of the revenue for the league. That’s huge! Canadian teams aren’t marginal small market clubs in the MLS - they’re big money clubs. With the Canadian market represents about a 1/3 of the leagues revenue, the CSA (which sanctions these clubs and the league access to Canada) is certainly going to have growing influence in how the league supports and accommodates Canadian player development. Money talks and when comes to Soccer, Canada is a ‘cash cow’ for the MLS. If the CSA is smart they will bide their time, and when their leverage is at its greatest with the league they should move to get Canadian players treated as domestics like Americans on all MLS rosters. That would be a big win.

One final thought, I believe that the Canadian MLS academies will be some of the best in the MLS. And that’s not just because Vancouver and Toronto are making big dollar investments. Its also because the environment for elite youth athlete is very different in Canada then it is in the US. In Canada hockey is really the only sport for which we have a complete athlete development programs and infrastructure (in terms of player develop, pathways to progression) . In the US soccer is competing with baseball, basketball and football for the interest of elite youth athletes, and those other sports benefit from greater cultural relevance, highly developed youth athlete development systems with lucrative financial opportunities (NCAA scholarships and huge pro contracts). Canadian athletes face real obstacles to progress to elite levels in most of the popular team sports(aside from hockey). So in a sense Soccer faces less competition for the interests of elite youth athletes in Canada. The MLS Academies will provide the first real domestic development and progression opportunity for any sport outside of hockey. I think we’ll see that proves to be a real advantage for Canadian MLS teams as well as Canadian Soccer beginning in about 4+ years… about the same timeframe the Lenarduzzi suggested in the article that started this thread.

Wow. This might be the most complete and well thought out first post that has ever graced this forum. Welcome!

[kj52]

Although some certainly have taken it with a grain of salt, Garber has consistently publicly stated that MLS supports the CSA and Canadian player development as well. Actions speak louder than words of course but I don't think the MLS gets anything other than benefits if Canadian soccer improves overall. Another big benefit of the Canuck clubs having an academy advantage is that we aren't saddled with the college model to compete against. As anyone who reads relevant american soccer forums is aware, there are many in the U.S. who still feel that the NCAA should produce the bulk of MLS players.

[Keegan]

Now that 3 Canadian teams are in MLS they need to invest in Canada as well if they want the league to grow and be at a high level, simple as that

[ThiKu]

Wow. This might be the most complete and well thought out first post that has ever graced this forum. Welcome!

Re: Scoots post - yes, in a utopian world. He needs facts to back-up the >30% argument.

And yes, I hope he is correct!!

[scoots]

Although some certainly have taken it with a grain of salt, Garber has consistently publicly stated that MLS supports the CSA and Canadian player development as well. Actions speak louder than words of course but I don't think the MLS gets anything other than benefits if Canadian soccer improves overall. Another big benefit of the Canuck clubs having an academy advantage is that we aren't saddled with the college model to compete against. As anyone who reads relevant american soccer forums is aware, there are many in the U.S. who still feel that the NCAA should produce the bulk of MLS players.

I agree, Garber is has been pretty open about saying that developing Canadian players is part of the plan, and that a stronger more competitive CMT would be good for his business. Marc Weber had a peice with some great quotes form Garber at Vancouver media event in back Feb (http://communities.canada.com/theprovince/blogs/backofthenet/archive/2011/02/15/round-table-with-mls-commish-don-garber.aspx)

On the Canadian quota (at least three per team)


“What it really comes down to is what's the balance between growing the overall interest in Major League Soccer and our Canadian clubs, while at the same time providing opportunities for Canadian players to get as much experience as possible so that the national team can qualify for the World Cup. It's a symbiotic process and both sides are important.


“[Vancouver] is a sophisticated soccer market and we've got to deliver a high quality of play if we're going to convert all those people that love the game into being fans of their local MLS club. At the same time, the best way to grow the opportunity for all of us in the soccer business is to have a vibrant national team, to have the Canadian men's team qualify for the World Cup, and be competitive with the U.S. and Mexico in CONCACAF.”

Garber is in a politically in an interesting/difficult position as he needs to serve the commercial interests of the leagues and its owners but he's also very closely tied to the USSF' agenda and he somehow need to also accomodate the CSA but they are a more distant 3rd party relationship for him. He alluded to that in that same interview with Marc Weber back in February:

On MLS relations with the CSA

“Major League Soccer has a true partnership with the U.S. Soccer Federation. We are joined at the hip with the mutual goal of growing the sport in North America and creating what we call a soccer nation. Our interests are aligned. We'll conflict over lots of things. We have an international player quota that we may or may not agree with, but at the end of the day we're both trying to grow the game and grow it in a way that we're trying to satisfy two goals — have the U.S. win the World Cup and have Major League Soccer be one of the top soccer leagues in the world.

“Because our engagement in Canada is relatively new, we've not yet established that same connections that we have in the States, and I think we need to find a way to do that. If we do do that, we'll collectively grow the sport. I know there are governance changes afoot and I believe those are positive. Probably the best thing that happened to the United States Soccer Federation was through the U.S. Olympic Committee and a federal act called the Ted Stevens Amateur Sports Act. The federation was required to change the makeup of their board and now there are independent directors on the board that are not associated with the game other than loving the game, and they have great experience to bring to the table. It's smaller, more nimble. It meets more and is less politically driven, much more strategically driven.


“I hope the Canadian Soccer Association can look at some of the very positive things that have been taking place in the United States and perhaps look to emulate some of those changes so that they can grow the game, and we'll very much look forward to working with them if they need our help.”


[scoots]

Re: Scoots post - yes, in a utopian world. He needs facts to back-up the >30% argument.

And yes, I hope he is correct!!

I've got no back-up for that, that's why I said, "I bet they will generate >30%". Its not fact just based on some isolated datapoints and comments I've observed;

1. Toronto and Vancouver will probably both be top 5 in leaguewide ticket sales this year

2. Comments from Garber about Toronto & Vancouver's success with sponsorship deals

3. Canadian TV revenue from TSN is totally incremental and and only a result of success of the Cdn clubs

So I could easily be wrong pegging it at >30%, at the very least I think its safe to say that the Canadian clubs will 'big money clubs' and will be 'overweight' in their revenue contribution (ie producing more of leaguewide revenues then the 16% of the league club count they represent). Even if that number is >20 % or >25% its still likely to be a realtively large % concentration of revenue from a realtively small % of the clubs.

That will give Canada some influence. But I'm not so nieve as to think that the agenda won't still be dominated by the USSF. That's why I started out by agreeing with the previous comments that MLS is still better for the US but is an improvement for Canada.