Capital City FC Fan Page

[Rocket Robin]

Some pictures of last weekend's CSL Final.

http://22066.vws.magma.ca/reports11/11csl195.htm

[Blue and White Army]

Thanks, Robin. Amazed you're still going strong after all of these years. The CSA owes you a medal.

[Guest mianjo]

After a very succesful season for Capital City, some of their players are still playing, now representing their countries in World Cup qualifying.

Andre Manders has earned caps for Bermuda playing in their last 5 games, of which they had a record of 3-1-1. Also Julien Edwards and Taylor Benjamin earned caps for Guyana.

Can any other CSL clubs say they have 3 current internationals in their squad.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Not right now I suspect but in year one within the league several CSL teams have spent big in the past and have brought in players from overseas. Once the startup capital dries up that usually fades away in years two and three. It will be interesting to see if Capital City FC follow the usual trajectory in that regard or will be more like the Ottawa Wizards were prior to their ouster from the league in having a deep pocketed owner who was willing to keep pumping in a six figure sum to cover losses in subsequent seasons. That's probably the only way to field a competitive team over the long haul if most away games are going to be in the GTA an beyond. Most of the local elite amateur/semi-pro players with 9 to 5 jobs to hold down in the Ottawa area are liable to find the travel demands too onerous.

[Juby]

Not right now I suspect but in year one within the league several CSL teams have spent big in the past and have brought in players from overseas. Once the startup capital dries up that usually fades away in years two and three. It will be interesting to see if Capital City FC follow the usual trajectory in that regard or will be more like the Ottawa Wizards were prior to their ouster from the league in having a deep pocketed owner who was willing to keep pumping in a six figure sum to cover losses in subsequent seasons. That's probably the only way to field a competitive team over the long haul if most away games are going to be in the GTA an beyond. Most of the local elite amateur/semi-pro players with 9 to 5 jobs to hold down in the Ottawa area are liable to find the travel demands too onerous.

You've made the same argument about literally every team that starts well, it's part of your no win argueing, if they start slow, their doomed, if they start well, their still doomed.

You do realize that between decent gate receipts and other revenue they probably aren't losing 6 figures and might not be in the no win situation your trying to pretend it is.

Do you have any references linking this to Capital City FC situation or did you just think it was your duty to tell fans, in a fans thread your pessimistic views of the future of their club?

[JamboAl]

I've been to CSL games in the GTA and compared to the support in those games, Capital City draws relatively well. Most games I've been to draw well in excess of 250 and the semifinal drew significantly more. It also helps that it is the only game in town and I think the ownership group does a good job of promotion.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

How many actually paid to get in? It's normal for a first year minor league sports team to hand out loads of comps to get people along to see them in the hope they eventually become regular paying customers. For the type of operation that Capital City FC appear to have been running you would probably need somewhere in the 1500 to 2000 range as paid attendance to be able to break even. For long term sustainability if the money isn't there to keep doing what they did this season they would probably be better off in a Montreal oriented setup given the much more reasonable travel distance.

[JamboAl]

How many actually paid to get in? It's normal for a first year minor league sports team to hand out loads of comps to get people along to see them in the hope they eventually become regular paying customers. For the type of operation that Capital City FC appear to have been running you would probably need somewhere in the 1500 to 2000 range as paid attendance to be able to break even. For long term sustainability if the money isn't there to keep doing what they did this season they would probably be better off in a Montreal oriented setup given the much more reasonable travel distance.

I don't think CCFC did a hell of a lot of giveaways; I know I paid full freight to get into games. I also don't see why they would need 1,500-2,000 to break even. How many PDL teams (or even NASL) draw that many and their travel distances are much more?

I was a bit sceptical about CCFC's success when they started but I think they are actually doing a pretty good job. It's actually the league itself that I'm more sceptical about in terms of some of their clubs not being up to scratch.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Import players from overseas or the United States on pro contracts playing a season of six months duration are a lot more expensive to have on the payroll than NCAA scholarship players who are around for only three months or so and are supposed to be amateur. Beyond that if you assume most of the money has to come through the gate based on an average ticket price of $10 or so, with the number of games the CSL plays you are looking at crowds of 1000 or so to sustain the $150k budget that is expected by the CSL for D3 level sanctioning. Throw in some fully pro salaries on imports and that break even point quickly starts to escalate.

The only reason the CSL is able to keep going is that reality doesn't always match rhetoric where being semi-pro is concerned and there are people who are willing to put their hands in their pockets to cover the mismatch between income and expenses because the team is their hobby basically. Everything hinges on whether Capital City FC's owner will have the same level of appetite for that as Omur Sezerman of the Wizards did, especially if the eventual emergence of the NASL team becomes more of a racing certainty.

[Juby]

Your literally so full of ****...

Many CSL teams do well based on large youth programs. Literally you just acted like a know-it-all and then acted like ticket prices were the only source of income (you literally suggested that if they don't make $150 000 in tickets alone, ignoring concessions, sponsors and like I said, youth programs). When you say things this foolish is when I suspect your just dishonestly trying to smear the CSL, I mean who really spends this much time talking on a subject and doesn't realize tickets aren't the only source of income? You say at one point

if you assume most of the money has to come through the gate

Most of the revenue doesn't come through the gate (maybe the biggest peice) so why assume that?

You have claimed a bunch of CSL clubs are losing money (maybe the men's team but I mean the club's organization), can you provide a single piece of evidence that suggest any of these teams are actually losing money (I don't doubt some are, I just know he's got no proof)?

Can you back up your point about income and expenses with a single example? Can you give us a single CSL clubs financial information, the club I would guess you having information on is London City, a team that generally, despite poor records, generally does well at the gate and garnering a decent number of sponsors, so your hate-on for the CSL is coming from...

Seriously, sorry for contributing to bogging down the Ottawa fans thread, but your coming into a club's fan thread, and your trying to spread your doomsday scenarios under the guise of what? They did well this year? You think your on topic because your very generally involving Ottawa (just like previously Mississauga) but your just using it as an excuse to repeat your anti-csl rhetoric even when it's completely off topic (sure the thread name says Capital City FC in it, but it also says Fan page, it's hardly the place for you to inaccurately (dishonestly) fantasize about their demise.)

edit: He literally just wants to take your fan thread and make a bunch of foolish inflammatory statements until it becomes so bogged down with him talking about how he hates the CSL and eventually his 'idea' to join american leagues (in other words his 'idea is whats been happening at various levels for how long?) and of course people rebutting his inflammatory off topic posts. He is literally in the middle of trying to take this thread completely off topic so he can argue about things he's argued countless times before, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that make him a Troll?

[Guest mianjo]

Capital City busy recruiting players, but a number of last years team will be back, Sullivan Da Silva and Julien Edwards to name 2.

http://www.capitalcityfc.com/news/index.html?article_id=103

[Trillium]

It is too bad the ownership was not prepared to stay in for another year, its pretty clear they lost lots of money last year, and probably a year

going around the league showed attendance was never going to come up to the levels to sustain the club. With no funding from youth players

and no income from camps etc. the owners were really paying for it all out of pocket.

I suspect the people around the owner did not have good grasp of the real financial cost long term of running a Soccer Club.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

If that were the only factor why wait until now to pull the plug? Only a few days ago their website was still being updated with info about the 2012 season. Something must have happened at the CSL's scheduling meeting that annoyed the owner. That points to a difference in opinion on how the schedule was put together. Maybe the addition of the three second division teams from last season (FC Kingston, Waterloo Region and Niagara United) didn't go down well and they wanted more of an emphasis on quality rather than quantity so it would be easier to market the CSL as a rival to the NASL rather than a clear step down from it?

[Juby]

If that were the only factor why wait until now to pull the plug?.

How is taking a year off going to help their club do anything but save money? Even if their intention is to change leagues, how does taking a year off help them in any non financial way? Is the plan to attrapy themselves into their goals?

Something must have happened at the CSL's scheduling meeting that annoyed the owner. That points to a difference in opinion on how the schedule was put together.

Classic bbtb, notice he makes the speculative claim that it has to do with the schedual and then he uses his own speculation as facts in the very next sentence?

Then of course, if anyone manages to look at another thread

I'll post this here as well. What people maybe should bear in mind about CCFC was that the owner originally wanted to run a D2 level team but lost out in that regard in expansion rights terms to the group associated with the new CFL team. With the NASL team now looking certain to emerge he maybe lost interest because he was only interested in running the top team in status terms in that particular city.

Despite your claims that this 'must have' been some kind of temper tantrum over schedualing issues, you claim here he's only quitting the CSL because he doesn't want to be the second best team in Ottawa? Both your answers seem kind of simple and childish to be honest, but which do you actually believe?

One last point: Why would bbtb even try to pretend he's got the inside scoop on CSL issues? He's probably the only person who can't get their answer's by calling people (He probably burned that bridge when he spent a couple years slagging the csl and it's owners). It irritates me to no end to see him trying to involved in CSL talks like a fan after all the terrible/crazy things he's said about them.

[Mark83]

These forums are a great read once in a while, especially since CSL news is hard to get online. But I'm beginning to think it's not worth visiting these boards anymore as every thread requires wading through fights and name calling between BBTB and Juby. I don't care who instigates who or how these fights start, but it really discourages me from visiting and overall it's detrimental to building a community of fans for Canadian soccer.

If you're not happy with another persons opinions, that's fine. It's a point of view. Offer yours and if you fell compelled to, disprove theirs, but without name calling. We're all fans of seeing the game of soccer grow in Canada, otherwise we wouldn't be here.

[JamboAl]

Hallelujah! Top first post too. I don't know (or care) who is right...argue off line.

These forums are a great read once in a while, especially since CSL news is hard to get online. But I'm beginning to think it's not worth visiting these boards anymore as every thread requires wading through fights and name calling between BBTB and Juby. I don't care who instigates who or how these fights start, but it really discourages me from visiting and overall it's detrimental to building a community of fans for Canadian soccer.

If you're not happy with another persons opinions, that's fine. It's a point of view. Offer yours and if you fell compelled to, disprove theirs, but without name calling. We're all fans of seeing the game of soccer grow in Canada, otherwise we wouldn't be here.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

People need to get their facts straight on this. I never respond to juby because I have him on ignore so there is no fight. If people have a problem with juby's posting style why not either put him on ignore like I do (it works trust me on that) or take it up with the moderators in the appropriate subforum rather than posting off-topic material on here and further derailing the threads?

[Juby]

ummmm I wasn't hugely dickish this time (I actually didn't call him any name that post). I pointed out how he contridicted himself, If you want to go around making questionably rational points just to be negative, I will point them out. The frustration comes after years of him repeating the worst points in every, even unrelated, csl thread (fan page anyone?). After a couple years of seeing him 'learn' something just to convienently ignore it when it suits his bias disgusts me. I can reach an amiable disagreement with most people here, bbtb however will continue making more inferior points until you lose patience just correcting the obvious. Why should we have to read him waste our time, saying literally anything, if it's so intolerable to read me and find out the facts (it's all annoying but isn't it easier to ban the guy trying to lie then ban they guy responding with facts?)

seriously, why does he post so much in CSL threads when he's not a fan? hint: he's a troll who likes to argue about and smear the csl, If I were the troll I'd be in PDL threads baiting them.

[kj52]

People need to get their facts straight on this. I never respond to juby because I have him on ignore so there is no fight. If people have a problem with juby's posting style why not either put him on ignore like I do (it works trust me on that) or take it up with the moderators in the appropriate subforum rather than posting off-topic material on here and further derailing the threads?

Have to agree, I've had Juby (and others) on ignore even before you did because I simply found his posts unbearable to read. I can't see any reason debate can't take place here without the childish name-calling and profanity, both which have increased exponentially since I first started reading this forum years ago.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

If anyone is interested in the question of why the internet doesn't work as it was originally intended to there is an interesting BBC documentary called All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace by a journalist called Adam Curtis that is worth a look:

http://vimeo.com/27393748

http://rutube.ru/tracks/4487452.html

Getting back to CCFC it's good that the NASL team is just over the horizon so people who made the emotional investment in the team have something concrete to look forward to and organize for in fan group terms.

[Juby]

Have to agree, I've had Juby (and others) on ignore even before you did because I simply found his posts unbearable to read. I can't see any reason debate can't take place here without the childish name-calling and profanity, both which have increased exponentially since I first started reading this forum years ago.

maybe you guys should actually wait till I call someone a name to go on a crusade for it, I think it's funny that now there's a big pity party about name calling when I don't call someone a name and coincedentally when the contridictions are even more obvious than usual. Why don't you make your stand when I actually lose my temper?

If anyone is interested in the question of why the internet doesn't work as it was originally intended to there is an interesting BBC documentary called All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace by a journalist called Adam Curtis that is worth a look:

You do realize that people making up facts from the anonymity of the internet is the biggest problem? (obviously not ahah) I shouldn't I have to sift through pages of misinformation any more then you all should have to read corrections, but one would cease to exist without the other. And if you do ignore bbtb, newbies mistake us ignoring him for not having a response and soon enough you have a group of laymen repeating his worst points because he answers so matter of factly (ironic eh). Then I have to do ridiculous things like defending creating more roster spots, paying players and focusing on Canada.

Maybe this is a natural consequence of him wasting hours of our time argueing against things like paying players. He damaged his own credibility in order to avoid admitting he was wrong on the silliest debates so is it so suprising I question his sources, honesty and motives? Maybe I'll just follow bbtb posts with some of his opinions like: 'keep in mind this is coming from a guy who argued against paying players' and not actually bother with the new fibs

and here's a point you all ignored when you just talked about (in this case) nonexistant name calling: seriously, why does he post so much in CSL threads when he's not a fan? hint: he's a troll who likes to argue about and smear the csl, If I were the troll I'd be in PDL threads baiting them.

[Redcoatsforever]

Juby, I think everyone at this point recognizes that no-one on this board has any special inside knowledge on the CSL, and that not just BBTB, but anyone who doesn't link to a legit newssource is speculating. Just because BBTB's speculation is negative does not make him the devil.

...the fact that he's of Scottish descent does.

[Juby]

Juby, I think everyone at this point recognizes that no-one on this board has any special inside knowledge on the CSL, and that not just BBTB, but anyone who doesn't link to a legit newssource is speculating. Just because BBTB's speculation is negative does not make him the devil.

...the fact that he's of Scottish descent does.

-NOT A SUPER MEAN POST, even if for a moment it seems to be going that way

I wouldn't say always, but you know for a fact that some of it is unreasonably negative (just not even worth saying). Just saying something falsely negative knowing it will be corrected is wasting our time and eventually erodes credibility. Maybe he should of thought of those consequences before he wasted everyone's time argueing against pay and new clubs over the last couple years? And what's worse is he won't admit to changing his opinion, just all of a sudden you read him claiming your idea was always his.

I have literally not said many things, I had heard, because I can't prove a rumour, so the idea of someone else just speculating off nothing but bias really pushes my buttons. (why try when it's clearly easier to lie?)

I should let a lot of stuff go, but I just have wasted too much time explaining the obvious to just let his word carry as much as mine. The best solution I can think of is to try and ignore his actual post, and just add a one sentence reminder of some of his sillier old opinions to put him in perspective. Ohh and btw, you can call up a lot of people at the CSL, a lot of speculation can be solved easier then posting and without mistakely talking **** about people