jpg75 Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 Well, I would say to that, that its the ability to leverage from the private entities ( in this case the clubs) in the recruiting process that this the reason for the success. Did we have weaker players before? I dont think so. I think that the problem before was identifying the players and picking the best ones. Thats was all left up to the CSA and its limited resources in the past. Many who weren't picked, probably quit the game. Now that process is done by entities who have a vested interest in ensure that the best talent is identified. The CSA just has to come in a picks from the cream of the crop. So their job is IMMENSELY EASIER and thats the big difference. also having kids in Europe was also crap for soccer in Canada because you know absolutely nothing them. But these kids were identified by the U17 team staff long before they were ID'd by the MLS club academies. My opinion is this was a talented group of kids and the coaching staff did a good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I would agree that it's too early to give all the credit to the three academies, though I think FK makes a good point about recognizing the talent and encouraging it to flourish. I'm not sure the NTCs were even remotely effective in this regard. I would only add that the CSL needs to be given a lot of credit as well for giving some kids a professional environment in which to train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I also give credit to the CSL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I would think that the opportunity many of these players had to play against men in the past year was of considerable help. The academy programs and CSL all helped in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazlo_80 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 soooooo......do we know if the u-17 world cup games will be on tv? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 soooooo......do we know if the u-17 world cup games will be on tv? It probably will be on CBC Bold for live coverage while main CBC network will show a game or two during midnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I'd rather they sell off the games to TSN or Sportsnet than have games on Bold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I'd rather they sell off the games to TSN or Sportsnet than have games on Bold. There hasn't been a tsn televised soccer game with domestic content of any kind in over 20-25 years. I think that it's premature to assume that they will do a better job than the broadcasters that have shown faith in soccer over the past 10 years. Everything is always better when you look back but if I was to compare what the CBC and SN have done in comparison to TSN in the 80's and 90's, overall, I have a Hard time saying that we have been poorly served in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Well, I would say to that, that its the ability to leverage from the private entities ( in this case the clubs) in the recruiting process that this the reason for the success. Did we have weaker players before? I dont think so. I think that the problem before was identifying the players and picking the best ones. Thats was all left up to the CSA and its limited resources in the past. Many who weren't picked, probably quit the game. Now that process is done by entities who have a vested interest in ensure that the best talent is identified. The CSA just has to come in a picks from the cream of the crop. So their job is IMMENSELY EASIER and thats the big difference. Before, everything was left up to the CSA on its limited budget. No national program in any country can thrive under those circumstances. also having kids in Europe was also crap for soccer in Canada because you know absolutely nothing them. I think you make a good point about it being easier to identify the top players because they are in the academies! These are early days and we just won an u17 QF but it is very encouraging, I think things will just get better and this bodes well for our MNT! This experience alone will pay dividends in the future for the kids that progress up the ladder in age levels! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Here's the last U17 team who qualified for a WC: http://www.canadasoccer.com/tourney/FIFA_U17WC/FU17WC_1995roster.asp Only Patrice Bernier has been a constant fixture for our MNT. To my knowledge Brad Parker is the only other player from that group who played a MNT game. I think the Academies could be the difference between the 1995 edition and the 2011 group. More opportunities to keep the palyers in a professionnal setup where the senior coaches will be aware of their development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Here's the last U17 team who qualified for a WC: http://www.canadasoccer.com/tourney/FIFA_U17WC/FU17WC_1995roster.asp Only Patrice Bernier has been a constant fixture for our MNT. To my knowledge Brad Parker is the only other player from that group who played a MNT game. I think the Academies could be the difference between the 1995 edition and the 2011 group. More opportunities to keep the palyers in a professionnal setup where the senior coaches will be aware of their development. Agreed, the academies will better ensure that the players with potential from this crop will be given a fair chance to develop. It is also important to note also that, if you look back at other national sides in past U17 WC's, you see far far more non recognizable players than recognizable names on various other teams. Hence it is important to caution against extrapolating too much from success achieved at the level. But, as i have alluded, success at this level is really an indication of or a test of the academies or development structures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Aleman's goal singled out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAjiHkb523k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Bear in mind that if it's on CBC, the game will almost certainly be streamed online even if it's Bold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOGAKANATA Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Aleman's goal singled out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAjiHkb523k Brilliant Goal! by the kid! showed alot of poise, qualities of a great footballer. But I want to give more praise to the rest of the boys, that give him the service and have allowed him to have such a promising tournament thus far. So thank you boys for not making a joke of Canadian football this month. And remeber to play with Confidence and expression, "Play beautiful"!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 There hasn't been a tsn televised soccer game with domestic content of any kind in over 20-25 years. I think that it's premature to assume that they will do a better job than the broadcasters that have shown faith in soccer over the past 10 years. Everything is always better when you look back but if I was to compare what the CBC and SN have done in comparison to TSN in the 80's and 90's, overall, I have a Hard time saying that we have been poorly served in recent years. I was saying that with respect to the fact that hardly anybody subscribes to Bold. I don't really give a crap about TSN's track record. People get so hung up on what broadcasters have paid their dues bla bla bla..... who cares? As long as it's on an easily accessible channel in HD I'll be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I was saying that with respect to the fact that hardly anybody subscribes to Bold. I don't really give a crap about TSN's track record. People get so hung up on what broadcasters have paid their dues bla bla bla..... who cares? As long as it's on an easily accessible channel in HD I'll be happy. The HD bit concerns me. Currently I can get CBC and Sportsnet in HD but I would have to pay extra to get TSN in HD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Aleman's goal singled out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAjiHkb523k Good looking boy. He'll be great for future marketing purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Here's the last U17 team who qualified for a WC: http://www.canadasoccer.com/tourney/FIFA_U17WC/FU17WC_1995roster.asp Only Patrice Bernier has been a constant fixture for our MNT. To my knowledge Brad Parker is the only other player from that group who played a MNT game. I think the Academies could be the difference between the 1995 edition and the 2011 group. More opportunities to keep the palyers in a professionnal setup where the senior coaches will be aware of their development. Another big difference between the 1995 edition and this one is the 1995 edition was more of a Team Toronto than Team Canada. Only 3 players were from outside the GTA area and not surprisingly it was one of those outsiders who made a career. This probably shows that the scouting of this team and probably many subsequent ones was very poor and confined to mostly the GTA area and anyone outside of GTA had to really be a standout to make the team. Also this 1995 team did terrible in the World Cup with the worst record overall and Bernier scored our only goal in the three losses of the tournament. While most of the players of the current team come from the academies of the three professional teams, they come from various regions of Canada not just GTA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Another big difference between the 1995 edition and this one is the 1995 edition was more of a Team Toronto than Team Canada. Only 3 players were from outside the GTA area and not surprisingly it was one of those outsiders who made a career. This probably shows that the scouting of this team and probably many subsequent ones was very poor and confined to mostly the GTA area and anyone outside of GTA had to really be a standout to make the team. Also this 1995 team did terrible in the World Cup with the worst record overall and Bernier scored our only goal in the three losses of the tournament. While most of the players of the current team come from the academies of the three professional teams, they come from various regions of Canada not just GTA. Terrible? I think 2-0 and 3-0 loss to Brazil and Germany is about right for us. I would expect the same results if our U17 were playing them today. Oman finished 4th in that tournament. But you are probably right about the scouting, that was another era and I'm glad it's over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Do you think scouting has gotten better, or it is easier because the CSA can just rely on the scouting of the three clubs for youth players? This is one effect of having professional clubs with academies in Canada and certainly a positive one, but it doesn’t necessarily mean the CSA is doing more in depth or better job of scouting youth players. I think it is obvious that TFC, Whitecaps and the Impact are identifying good young players but how much real scouting and work did the CSA actually do? Either way, we all benefit so I guess it doesn’t really matter, but with most of our top talent in three academies, I don’t believe much money and resources were necessary to spend on scouting players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Terrible? I think 2-0 and 3-0 loss to Brazil and Germany is about right for us. I would expect the same results if our U17 were playing them today. Oman finished 4th in that tournament. But you are probably right about the scouting, that was another era and I'm glad it's over. Check the 1993 team. I think they lost 5-0 5-0 and 8-0 and there were some future national team players: Diesel, Brennan, Bent, Clarke, Pizzolito and Aristodemo where all on that team. It sure helps that the academies are there. 70% of the team is made from the 3 pro clubs' academy. I think it's a good start for the future of the game here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Terrible? I think 2-0 and 3-0 loss to Brazil and Germany is about right for us. I would expect the same results if our U17 were playing them today. Oman finished 4th in that tournament. But you are probably right about the scouting, that was another era and I'm glad it's over. Yes Brazil and Oman were quite good in the tournament though one must wonder whether the Oman team were all actually under-17 given that it seems an aberration for Oman to do this well in such a competition. Germany, however, sent a very poor team which lost to both Brazil and Oman by a score of 3-0 yet managed to beat us 3-0. Also only two players from the German team went on to have significant careers afterward, Fabian Ernst, and to a lesser extent Timo Rost. A few others played in the 2nd BL later but over half of the team did not go on to have pro careers. Regardless, I wouldn't necessarily expect our team to beat Brazil and Germany and a possibly overage Oman but it doesn't seem like we were even competitive. I suspect at the time the coach, Tony Taylor, just scouted clubs in Toronto where he lived and only scouted or gave someone from somewhere else a tryout if they were really highly recommended. It is probable he also did not have any travel budget in his position nor any funds to bring players from a distance in for camps. As Finchster said, things may not be a whole lot better today but the academies are scouting more so it is probably easier to select players. However, it does seem like the various youth teams are holding more camps than they used to and are trying out a lot more players than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 As maligned as they are within the soccer community, the NTC's have made the job of scouting much easier on the youth team coaches. A good number of the kids on this current team came through the various NTC's. Re: the 1995 squad, does anyone know if DeRo was injured for the finals? His CSA profile has no mention of him ever being part of the U17 squad...was he overlooked? Sounds crazy since he was on trial with AC Milan and Barcelona as far back as 1993. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 As maligned as they are within the soccer community, the NTC's have made the job of scouting much easier on the youth team coaches. A good number of the kids on this current team came through the various NTC's. Re: the 1995 squad, does anyone know if DeRo was injured for the finals? His CSA profile has no mention of him ever being part of the U17 squad...was he overlooked? Sounds crazy since he was on trial with AC Milan and Barcelona as far back as 1993. DeRo wasn't eligible for that team as it was made of players born after August 1st 1978 (DeRo is born in May). As for the NTC, I agree with you, 17 out of the 20 players came from the NTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 DeRo wasn't eligible for that team as it was made of players born after August 1st 1978 (DeRo is born in May). As for the NTC, I agree with you, 17 out of the 20 players came from the NTC. Ah geez, what a stupid rule. Thank god they changed it to align with the calendar year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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