Greece v. Canada - Feb. 9, 2011 - Match Thread (R)

[killgod]

TBH, I find it a bit unfair that OO is getting write off as unable to score goal for us since he has played a little bit more than one game (1 half against Greece and 70 min against Ukraine) for us since being absent from the MNT for a long period of time. Those 2 games weren't against SVG but 2 quality Euro teams. He did OK in those 2 games so I say give him a chance to prove what he can do against a CONCACAF opponent and then we'll judge his effectiveness.

Didn't mean to suggest they should be banished from the team forever without any further chance to prove themselves. However between Friend and Occean, you have 45 matches and 4 goals. You simply need better from your striker position if we want to even sniff round 3 of WCQ, let alone Brazil 2014.

Isn't there lots of talk about this mentality anyways? Not accepting "good efforts" anymore, demanding results? Well I'm on board with the idea and I demand production from our strikers, it's that simple. Chances were had on Wednesday and they simply didn't execute. So when it comes down to it, if you exclude situations like Gavin McCallum, Gerba scores at a record rate for our nation, so he has to be favoured because it's what we need more than anything.

Surely I have no issue with other strikers getting out for things like round one of WCQ, friendlies, etc, but if they can't perform in those matches then I wouldn't want them playing the bulk of the time when things get more difficult. Wouldn't you agree?

Gerba may not be the best all around player, but you can't win without goals and he at least has proven he'll give us those.

[loyola]

Didn't mean to suggest they should be banished from the team forever without any further chance to prove themselves. However between Friend and Occean, you have 45 matches and 4 goals. You simply need better from your striker position if we want to even sniff round 3 of WCQ, let alone Brazil 2014.

Isn't there lots of talk about this mentality anyways? Not accepting "good efforts" anymore, demanding results? Well I'm on board with the idea and I demand production from our strikers, it's that simple. Chances were had on Wednesday and they simply didn't execute. So when it comes down to it, if you exclude situations like Gavin McCallum, Gerba scores at a record rate for our nation, so he has to be favoured because it's what we need more than anything.

Surely I have no issue with other strikers getting out for things like round one of WCQ, friendlies, etc, but if they can't perform in those matches then I wouldn't want them playing the bulk of the time when things get more difficult. Wouldn't you agree?

Gerba may not be the best all around player, but you can't win without goals and he at least has proven he'll give us those.

We had one good chance on Wednesday (Friend header). I'm not sure only OO and Friend are to blame for that.

In the case of Friend, who's been a regular presence for our MNT since 2006 I think it's fair to look at his overall performance and I come to the same conclusion as you. I just think OO is a different case as he had a lot of caps early on in his career and then kind of dissapear and is now looking pretty good at the club level. That's why I think he deserves to be around and also to get minutes against a weaker opponents than Greece and Ukraine.

[jpg75]

TBH, I find it a bit unfair that OO is getting write off as unable to score goal for us since he has played a little bit more than one game (1 half against Greece and 70 min against Ukraine) for us since being absent from the MNT for a long period of time. Those 2 games weren't against SVG but 2 quality Euro teams. He did OK in those 2 games so I say give him a chance to prove what he can do against a CONCACAF opponent and then we'll judge his effectiveness.

I agree, OO deserves more call ups to see what he's capable of.

[Obinna]

I actually think OO did alright against Greece. Not as well as he did in Ukraine though and certainly did no worse than Friend. The thing I like about OO is that he is big but also mobile. Also, I don't understand how alot of people feel Cann looked "out of his depth"? I think he did a pretty decent job, and he actually surprised me a bit (although I never have high expectations for him). His service out of the back wasn't much worse than Jakovic, in fact I would argue it was equal. Cann gave the ball up cheaply once but so did Jakovic. Cann won some challenges in the air. I just find it funny that some people found that he was out of his depth, yet he did the exact same things he does with TFC in MLS, a league we all feel he does well in. I think he played his way back into the pool in Greece, but would still prefer Mckenna and Straith ahead of him at centerback.

Speaking of Straith, he was horrible on the left side, very dissapointing he has no confidence with his left foot.

[Keano]

Gerba is just so frustrating to watch everywhere besides the penalty box. His touch in the middle of the field is not good, and I get very frustrated when we lose possesion because of it. However within the penalty box he does seem to have that inate ability to be in the right spot at the right time and this is something Friend hasn't displayed (for the nats). Too bad we couldn't combine the two into a great all around striker.

That's what was so (positively) surprising for those of us watching his sick run for the Impact last season... he manufactured at least half of his goals using a variety of holding up, powering through, and flanking defenders, as opposed to the Ali of old poaching. Also he set up Sebrango on several occasions. Yes typical NASL defenses don't put as much pressure on him as a Mexico (or a Greece) would, but he really seemed to have discovered a more motivated, more multidimensional side to his game, which was as you allude to, surprising. But nice. The Ali of last season is a more dangerous player than other options for Canada IMO.

Of course, that was pissed-off, miffed Ali with something to prove. He has spent the past winter at galas and fashion shows becoming a minor local celebrity... let's see where he picks up in April.

[BearcatSA]

We had one good chance on Wednesday (Friend header). I'm not sure only OO and Friend are to blame for that.

And that off a dead ball situation (corner kick), with another from a DeRo free kick, two from Greek giveaways (Jackson, then Simpson). As much as I would like to have seen more chances generated from open play, it's always going to be a challenge against an organized defensive side like Greece (or against Honduras at the last GC).

I think it's Gerba's job come the spring and hopefully he can continue his international form.

[Guest Ed]

Haven't posted yet on this match but one thing I got out of it is that Josh Simpson is hitting a new level and that is real good news.

[villus]

With the personnel we have we Friend and OO are not the type of players that will excel for us. Our service is'nt great, and these guys are primarily target strikers that need service from the wings. Gerba is a better fit and I think it has shown with his goal production with our players and the 4-2-3-1 formation. I think we should try Dero at striker, he holds onto the ball too long but has great skills and can finish, worth a shot imo. Also when we have both Dejong and Klukowski in camp should we look at moving one of them to right back? I know they are both very much left backs but if we are really short at right back could one of them deputise??

[nolando]

Borjan – 6.5 Great to have him aboard and this probably cements him as #2 but he’s a long ways off of Lars IMO. A little too daring at times (his wild attempt on that early 2nd half effort would have been a red card in most CONCACAF WCQs. I like that he wasn’t too shy to direct traffic in front of him and that he cooly redeemed himself 1-v-1 against the same Greek attacker around min 60. Has a lot of promise.

Peters – 7 Not bad at all although not really tested defensively after Greece moved all their attack down the opposite side. He tracked back plenty, including switching over and clearing things off the left side a couple of times. I’m sceptical (as most Ipswich followers continue to be) that he would survive 90 min of actual defending but, against the right type of opponent, having him attacking as a wingback is a great option for Canada.

Jakovic – 5-A little dodgy at times, which was my impression of him on the whole over his past few starts. I remember him making me feel much less nervous in years past, while vs Greece he was often on the wrong side of his man and didn’t really take control of a backline that should have clearly been his to run, given his associates on the day. He was beaten like a rented mule on more than a couple occasions and only poor Greek finishing spared him the criticism otherwise spared for Straith. Maybe we should seriously consider him as a DM at some point soon. His lapses in judgement would be less likely to be punished in that role and he would have more freedom to destroy without fear of being responsible for dangerously placed fouls or is-timed pinches. People who thought he had a solid game need to re-watch the video and stop evaluating him on old performances.

Cann – 5 Given he is noted for keeping himself in great shape, the fact he was already training for his club, and that he was Toronto’s player-of-the-year depending on who you talked to, and given that he was actually playing his preferred position, I was very underwhelmed. Add him to the list of potential extras but if we are going to call in a 30- year old, I’d rather it were a more versatile one like Pozniak who could play all five of our defensive positions.

Straith – 4 Piss poor although I do feel for the guy who must have drew the short straw and had to start in LB. I had him there, begrudgingly, in my pre-game lineup too, almost by default, but jesus, any sense he might have picked up playing RB, (pushing attackers outside, for instance) last year obviously wasn’t transferrable to the other side of the pitch or on to his bad foot. Wild clearances under pressure, old-school Canada lobs out of the back even under no pressure, a couple of hapless attacking chances..ugghh…I can see why he’s lost the confidence of his manager at club level if this is any indication of how his season is going. Fortunately he is young and has a long Canadian future ahead of him. At CB.

Johnson – 6 Made a lot of poor passes and took a terrible shot for distance in the first half. Is it a coincidence that, like Jakovic, the longer he stays in MLS the less technically sound he seems to play? I like his spirit – he might team up great with a Hume (like Bircham of yesteryear) but he should be reserved, as another V said, for the right type of opponent.

Hutchinson – 7 I didn’t think he was as disappointing as many others, but, like I suggested in the pre-game thread, DDR’s presence was always going to push Atiba into the periphery. Did anyone else see him track back marvellously around min 20 to act as a CB closing down a Greek counterattack? Was very happy to see him with the armband – hopefully he keeps it for a minimum of 5-6 years.

Jackson– 6.5 Given the fact that he’s not a natural winger, he can be counted on to put in a decent cross or two, and will run his butt off. Like Occean he looks like he might be a decent part of a two-man attack. He doesn’t seem to have enough tools to get by many quality defenders 1-one-1 so this is always going to limit his effectiveness. I’m afraid we’re not going to ever see that much more from Simeon – this may be as good as he gets in this role. Another guy who looks to be deserving of his supporting role at club level.

DDR – 7 Like Grizz I am no DeRo fan, but have to admit he did his job on Wednesday. He played smart football, rarely coughed up the ball, struck a nice free kick, and contributed to the attacking build-up on a number of occasions, My only qualm is that if he plays in this position then Atiba doesn’t - enough said.

Simpson – 8 Another fantastic performance. A couple of wild shots and an untimely slip or two kept him from a near-perfect performance given he is religiously spearheading Canada’s attacks from the left wing, of all places. Wish he was a better crosser but given how much he contributes, and how much heart he shows game-in, game-out, he was Canada’s MOTM again.

Occean – 6 I thought he was more of an attacking central mid than a proper striker, but in any event he generated very little interest or attack, while not really clearing any space for his supporting midfielders either. What could we have expected of him? I like him better in the long attacker role than Friend, but he’s obviously not our saviour.

Friend – 5.5 See my evaluation of him from every other match he has played for Canada. Can we finally silence the nutbars (including Hart, so it would seem) blinded by league status calling for Hart to “see what Friend can do up front.” For Canada he can do nothing. Even when faced with the indignity of being replaced by a B3 Striker when many still consider him a possible B1 front-man. Even with the best ball he could ever hope to receive while in a Canada shirt. Nada. Nice guy and thanks for coming out but happy trails, Rob. Maybe he can be a Crouch-type of specialist sub against one of the smaller CONCACAF sides, but even then he’s no more than a definitely maybe in my books.

Edgar – 6 I thought Hart should have swapped Edgar into the roles of Cann or Jakovic or even poor Straith, but he seemed well-positioned for the most part and hustled around a lot. Was nothing spectacular but should play a role down the road

Pacheco/ Ricketts – 6.5 Melded into the attack well and contributed together to create the eventual corner that Friend scuffed wide. I think Ricketts actually took that late, great corner, btw. Both could contribute to the Gold Cup run and might even be in the mix come WCQ. Would like to see more, soon. Too bad we won't play again soon.

[Soju]

Some players link up going forward, some players don't. Hutch needs to be orchestrating the attack with Jackson and Simpson. I still think DeRo would be more effective up top than Friend or Occean but in lieu of this he's a sub. We have to keep that same attacking line that worked so well against Ukraine. Build on that and results will come.

[BearcatSA]

Peters – 7 Not bad at all although not really tested defensively after Greece moved all their attack down the opposite side. He tracked back plenty, including switching over and clearing things off the left side a couple of times. I’m sceptical (as most Ipswich followers continue to be) that he would survive 90 min of actual defending but, against the right type of opponent, having him attacking as a wingback is a great option for Canada.

He was good going forward in support and his speed helped snuff out a quick Greek counter off a cleared corner in the first half. However I'm not convinced of his defensive skills: for instance, on the play where Borjan stoned Mitroglou 1 v 1, Peters gave the Greek winger far too much time and space to make that through ball. He's still a work in progress on the overall defensive side, regardless of his quickness.

At the last GC I was critical of Johnson's play on the wing vs Honduras because he was reluctant to take guys on 1 v 1 and instead he usually knocked the ball backwards to a supporting midfielder. With Jackson, you get more of the opposite: he tries too often to turn his opponent and force the issue instead of picking his spots.

In watching the first part of the second half again I still feel an issue for this team, even with the purported best available players (committed to Canada, that is), is the lack of a really solid defensive mid shielding the back four, here and in previous recent international matches. The Greeks picked up their game quite a bit at the start of the second half partly because of the better front running of the sub Mitroglou but primarily because we gave the opposing mids too much time and space to make telling passes. Hutchinson had alluded in TorontoMB's interview that Edgar was in the midfield mix, even though he's spent most of his time playing in Burnley's reserves as a fullback, and his introduction to the match in that d-mid position tells me that Hart's looking for a better defensive positional presence in that spot of the field.

[BearcatSA]

Johnson – 6 Made a lot of poor passes and took a terrible shot for distance in the first half. Is it a coincidence that, like Jakovic, the longer he stays in MLS the less technically sound he seems to play? I like his spirit – he might team up great with a Hume (like Bircham of yesteryear) but he should be reserved, as another V said, for the right type of opponent.

I don't know, I like what Johnson brings to the midfield three. Not only that, he's gained valuable CONCACAF experience during his club's long run in the Champions' League and may garner more in the coming season. He's a terrier defensively and loyola's statistical analysis earlier in the thread shows what he did in that area of his game vs the Greeks. At his best offensively, he's a good quick passer who keeps the build up play rolling. Maybe that didn't show up as much on Wednesday but I'd be willing to cut him some slack considering the stage of preseason he and the other MLSers are in currently. I see him as a serious challenger for a regular starting place in the midfield three as opposed to being just a role player for the right type of opponent (Jamaica? TnT?). He's behind the likes of Hutchinson or maybe an "on song" De Guzman on the depth chart, but apart from those two you'd be pretty hard pressed to convince me that the other midfield candidates available to us would be ahead of him for a starting spot.

[Keegan]

I don't know, I like what Johnson brings to the midfield three. Not only that, he's gained valuable CONCACAF experience during his club's long run in the Champions' League and may garner more in the coming season. He's a terrier defensively and loyola's statistical analysis earlier in the thread shows what he did in that area of his game vs the Greeks. At his best offensively, he's a good quick passer who keeps the build up play rolling. Maybe that didn't show up as much on Wednesday but I'd be willing to cut him some slack considering the stage of preseason he and the other MLSers are in currently. I see him as a serious challenger for a regular starting place in the midfield three as opposed to being just a role player for the right type of opponent (Jamaica? TnT?). He's behind the likes of Hutchinson or maybe an "on song" De Guzman on the depth chart, but apart from those two you'd be pretty hard pressed to convince me that the other midfield candidates available to us would be ahead of him for a starting spot.

^ Same

For me Johnson looks better each time he plays, he's a threat from distance, good tackler, one of the grittier players we have, quick, covers a ton of ground.. I can't find too many faults in Will's game he is a winner and a guy you want on the pitch. My best midfield trio would be De Guzman, Hutchinson and Johnson.

[Sam]

^ Same

For me Johnson looks better each time he plays, he's a threat from distance, good tackler, one of the grittier players we have, quick, covers a ton of ground.. I can't find too many faults in Will's game he is a winner and a guy you want on the pitch. My best midfield trio would be De Guzman, Hutchinson and Johnson.

I think its hard to argue with those three as the top three midfielders in the pecking order at the moment... and if one player's spot was up for the most competition I'd even say its Julian's.

[BearcatSA]

^ Same

For me Johnson looks better each time he plays, he's a threat from distance, good tackler, one of the grittier players we have, quick, covers a ton of ground.. I can't find too many faults in Will's game he is a winner and a guy you want on the pitch. My best midfield trio would be De Guzman, Hutchinson and Johnson.

He still can get pushed around against physical opposition and though he works hard and has a big engine and range he doesn't have a big time burst (that's why I don't think he's suited for an offensive role on the wing). And though he doesn't mind leaving a late challenge "calling card" on occasion, I hope he is prudent on where and when he delivers it so as not to get into card trouble in hostile environments.

However, he has a lot of intangibles, not the least of which being part of a winning, collective team mentality at club level. A WE guy, not a ME guy.

[Ivan]

Finally had a chance to watch the game in its entirety. Didn't think DeRo was as good as most on here thought he was, and didn't think Cann was as bad as some of the comments suggest. Continue to be impressed with Simpson, Hutch and Johnson. I actually thought we outplayed the Greeks for much of the first half, and the last quarter of the game. The Greeks were clealy superior in the first part of the second half.

[BearcatSA]

Finally had a chance to watch the game in its entirety. Didn't think DeRo was as good as most on here thought he was, and didn't think Cann was as bad as some of the comments suggest. Continue to be impressed with Simpson, Hutch and Johnson. I actually thought we outplayed the Greeks for much of the first half, and the last quarter of the game. The Greeks were clealy superior in the first part of the second half.

Hence the introduction of Edgar. I think Toronto MB said that they were trying to get him in before the goal was scored.

[Ivan]

^ You know my thoughts on that subject Bearcat.

[BearcatSA]

^Definitely. At club level I'm sure Hutchinson enjoys having the burly presence of Engelaar doing the defensive ball winning grunt work.

[nolando]

99.9 % of twitter must be useless cyberjunk but then again you can also run across great tweets like this,

" International debut! #proud"

9:43 AM Feb 9th via Twitter for BlackBerry® " from David Edgar.

or notice that Jaime Peters exchanges messages with his former teammate (and obvious pal) Asmir Begovic.