TFC, Ajax and "Total Football"

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Life is too short to deal with the usual territorial responses over blog entries on here so given I don't do blog posts for financial or journalistic reasons and this forum is where I usually post most here is the entire entry in addition to the link:

http://canadiansocceropinion.blogspot.com/2011/01/tfc-ajax-and-total-football.html

I hope it will provoke discussion as to whether it is realistic to expect TFC to suddenly start playing a 4-3-3 like Ajax and that it will perhaps also get people debating what it is reasonable to expect in that sort of regard from an MLS team.

What to make of TFC's new management team? Some people are obviously over the proverbial moon. Threads are already appearing on certain fan messageboards singing the praises of MLSE just a few short weeks after the same people were talking about jumping off the bandwagon over a $2 per game increase in ticket prices so a home run has obviously been hit in PR terms at least in the short term. I'm left with the feeling that TFC is a club with a serious identity crisis, however. I can vividly remember watching the 1974 World Cup final while still knee high to a grasshopper in Scotland very much hoping Holland would win given attitudes in British society were still very much defined by the legacy of WWII at that point. Players like Cruyff, Rep and Neeskens seemed like larger than life supermen playing a style that was totally different from the then 18 team Scottish top flight that I was used to watching on television so it was very disappointing to see them lose to West Germany. Fast forward a generation or two and I have to say that when I think about players from the present day who are best suited to carry on the legacy of Dutch "total football" Chad Barrett and Nick LaBrocca would not feature prominently in my thoughts and therein lies the problem.

1974 World Cup final:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OClsiBAJNLw?fs=1&hl=en_US

There is a huge gap between rhetoric and reality and MLSE are obviously making a marketing pitch as much as anything else with this. It's all very well saying we want to play like Ajax but there needs to be a deeper consideration of exactly why Ajax are able to play that way. Until very recently the Dutch game has been very much dominated by three clubs, Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV Eindhoven (Feyenoord have deep financial problems and clubs like Twente Enschede are now more of a factor than they used to be). That meant that for 30 out of 34 games of the domestic season Ajax were playing against a significantly inferior opponent. 18 clubs is a large top division for a relatively small country like Holland. At the bottom end of the Eredivisie you can sometimes be looking at very small clubs like Excelsior Rotterdam who struggle to attract more than 1000 supporters. The natural order of things is for most teams to sit back and play for a point as Ajax dictate the tempo of the game and have the lion's share of the possession during a game played in a European winter season format. It should go without saying that MLS is a very different environment from that scenario and what works for Ajax in a domestic context won't necessarily work for TFC but most people are not looking at things rationally and dispassionately at this point.

Excelsior Rotterdam 1 Ajax 8:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSNyrr2lPHg?fs=1&hl=en_US

Where the identity crisis enters the equation is that a large portion of the fan base has clearly been introduced to the sport by following the fortunes of one of the giants of the European game that can spend their way to success in domestic terms on cable every weekend. They are therefore used to the acquisition of big name players and coaches leading to a steady stream of trophies and see regular on field success as a reasonable precondition for continuing support rather than something special to be savoured. In reality however TFC are a team with a relatively small salary budget in global terms playing in a league that actively tries to enforce a level playing field in competitive terms. On field success is far from guaranteed and MLS Cup wins could easily wind up being a once in a generation event. The road to success in an MLS context is often very different from what happens in a top European leagues and often involves relative no name coaches like Jason Kreis and Gary Smith assembling a group of no name players who they can inspire to work hard as a unit and grind out results using a less than glamorous playing style. People turned their noses up at "Prekiball" in the belief that they deserved something closer to what they watch on television from Europe but Preki's sort of approach often works in an MLS context even if it didn't instantly get the job done in a TFC context.

Aron Winter's 10 best goals for Ajax:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2d1t0Fy0iI?fs=1&hl=en_US

So is an Ajax style 4-3-3 likely to work for a team playing in a league with a salary cap of about $2.7 million and other rules and regulations deliberately designed to enforce competitive parity? It might be possible to put together a first team lineup that can play something vaguely resembling that style and it might be possible to string a few results together on that basis (we've been there before briefly at the start of the 2008 season with Robert and Ricketts down the wings and Guevara playing through the middle) but what happens when injuries, suspensions and international callups start to take their toll and players like Dan Gargan start to get serious playing time? One of the limiting factors in MLS is that although there is usually a reasonable level of quality in the starting XI the roster has to be filled out with players who are nowhere near Dutch Eredivisie calibre. Can a coach who played 84 times for the Dutch national team handle having to use players with a skill level more suited to Holland's Saturday and Sunday amateur leagues? Time will tell.

Jong Ajax in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDbgQPGNYgY?fs=1&hl=en_US

To cut a long story short the "total football" thing probably won't work and by midsummer Aron Winter is likely to do a Ruud Gullit and walk away making all sorts of negative comments about the quality of the league and players as he exits the scene. The positive is that Paul Mariner is there to step into the breech and do things in a more normal down to earth MLS style. Although he is billed as being there to assist Aron Winter in his transition to MLS I suspect he is viewed as an insurance policy if the high risk Dutch strategy goes haywire this summer. Hopefully Winter and de Klerk will prove me wrong by being flexible enough to hang in there and live with the limitations imposed by operating in the MLS environment because where they could make a really big difference in the long run is on the Academy side of the operation. Stuart Neely and Jason Bent appear to have done a reasonable job so far but I seriously doubt that they are the best available option to make full use of the announced $17.5 million investment in a training facility in the years ahead. If TFC wants to play like Ajax one day that's where the home grown players with the skills set to get the job done are going to have to be developed so that MLS policies that enforce competitive parity can be circumvented. Although people in Toronto like to think the GTA is the main hotbed of quality in youth soccer terms in North America that's going to be a lot more difficult to achieve than it would have been 30 years ago in an NASL context when young Canadian players filled a disproportionate amount of the domestic player quota content on teams both north and south of the border.

[Keegan]

Good read but you are overlooking what you yourself said, Winter has 84 international caps and international pedigree, this man knows football and any great football mind has the potential to do well anywhere. He has been managed by some of the best managers and coaches in the world he has a lot to pass on. Im not saying he will I honestly have no idea just saying you can't overlook those facts, whether he turns out to be good or not remains to be seen.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Two things: the players do not have the ball talent to play Dutch style, and they are mostly too old to learn. But you can still line them up and ask them to try, and many could be up to it to a degree. There is no reason for an outside back to just saunter up field when the keeper has the ball, instead of looking for the short pass out. Depends what the coach asks players to do.

Second, 4-3-3 is not the question, Canada has played it (Yallop used it), many of these guys have too. If you have a good off the ball system in defence closing down spaces it can work, starting with the forwards. If your mids are passing well and can get out of a jam in inferiority of numbers. You have to train it, and in function of who you have. Off the ball dynamism in attack in defence is essential for a 4-3-3.

Finally, totally agree that where you could see something interesting is in an academy setting, but you need five years at least. Okay, maybe three, but not three to get players integrated from an academy into first team, three to find players able to play the system you want to play.

[Trillium]

Two things: the players do not have the ball talent to play Dutch style, and they are mostly too old to learn. But you can still line them up and ask them to try, and many could be up to it to a degree. There is no reason for an outside back to just saunter up field when the keeper has the ball, instead of looking for the short pass out. Depends what the coach asks players to do.

Second, 4-3-3 is not the question, Canada has played it (Yallop used it), many of these guys have too. If you have a good off the ball system in defence closing down spaces it can work, starting with the forwards. If your mids are passing well and can get out of a jam in inferiority of numbers. You have to train it, and in function of who you have. Off the ball dynamism in attack in defence is essential for a 4-3-3.

Finally, totally agree that where you could see something interesting is in an academy setting, but you need five years at least. Okay, maybe three, but not three to get players integrated from an academy into first team, three to find players able to play the system you want to play.

You are talking about ball skills .... but they also need intellectual ability, just where are you going to find that on the TFC roster of today ?

[Oldtimer]

What's missing here in this analysis is that TFC doesn't actually have to be good in global terms, it just has to better than the majority of its MLS opposition. This is certainly do-able, although it only bear a remote ressemblance to what Ajax does.

[Macksam]

Although people in Toronto like to think the GTA is the main hotbed of quality in youth soccer terms in North America that's going to be a lot more difficult to achieve than it would have been 30 years ago in an NASL context when young Canadian players filled a disproportionate amount of the domestic player quota content on teams both north and south of the border.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

[BearcatSA]

People turned their noses up at "Prekiball" in the belief that they deserved something closer to what they watch on television from Europe but Preki's sort of approach often works in an MLS context even if it didn't instantly get the job done in a TFC context.

Hey, with the horses he has available in the TFC stable Winter might end up playing that way, grinding out results.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

Back in the late 70s and early 80s players from Canadian leagues like the NSL took up a lot of the domestic roster quota even for NASL teams based in the United States because Canadian elite amateur and semi-pro soccer was better than anything the United States had to offer at that point. That's why Bob Iarusci got to play for the New York Cosmos basically. It would be nice to think that TFC Academy can replicate that trend of producing better players so that TFC can be like Ajax in terms of routinely bringing players through an elite youth system into the first team but the problem is that what happens in Canadian soccer isn't necessarily as good as what is happening in the United States nowadays. Cities like LA, San Jose, Dallas and Houston with large Hispanic populations and a climate that enables the game to be played outdoors year round are going to be very difficult to keep pace with in the years ahead when/if the home grown player angle starts to eclipse the superdraft as the main source of players.

[Macksam]

Back in the late 70s and early 80s players from Canadian leagues like the NSL took up a lot of the domestic roster quota even for NASL teams based in the United States because Canadian elite amateur and semi-pro soccer was better than anything the United States had to offer at that point. That's why Bob Iarusci got to play for the New York Cosmos basically. It would be nice to think that TFC Academy can replicate that trend of producing better players so that TFC can be like Ajax in terms of routinely bringing players through an elite youth system into the first team but the problem is that what happens in Canadian soccer isn't necessarily as good as what is happening in the United States nowadays. Cities like LA, San Jose, Dallas and Houston with large Hispanic populations and a climate that enables the game to be played outdoors year round are going to be very difficult to keep pace with in the years ahead when/if the home grown player angle starts to eclipse the superdraft as the main source of players.

Yeah, but this is about solely producing players for TFC, which is a good start. It would be a bonus if we can start mass producing players for other MLS clubs.

Also, our academy, in it's infancy stage, is going to potentially give us 5 homegrown players by the start of next season. I think it's safe to assume things will get even better when the system gets properly fleshed out in the future and players start getting properly developed.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Yeah, but this is about solely producing players for TFC, which is a good start. It would be a bonus if we can start mass producing players for other MLS clubs.

Just to clarify I wasn't suggesting the latter bit is either desirable or likely to happen. I was drawing a parallel with the NASL era when Canadian players featured prominently in North American content terms. If player development in a Canadian context were still as strong in relative terms compared to what happens south of the border as it was back then TFC, the Whitecaps and Impact would benefit tremendously from the recent rule changes on homegrown players. Not sure that will happen, however, because it is going to be difficult to keep pace with teams in cities like Los Angeles, Houston and Dallas in the years ahead for the reasons described above.

It's good to see that MLSE are taking the challenge seriously and are making the financial commitment required to turn youth development into the key advantage that will give TFC a definite edge over teams like Columbus that don't make the same investment and come from an area where soccer isn't quite as strong locally.

[jamieNDG]

Well hopefully TFC will produce one or two Van Der Varts in the years to come.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

I'm usually not a fan of Gareth Wheeler but this latest article is actually quite good:

http://www.lfpress.com/sports/soccer/2011/01/19/16955656.html

...Not listed among the positives has been the over-used and over-stated proclamation “Total Football” has arrived at TFC. It’s nonsense.

“Total Football” is out-dated. It stems from a time where one-dimensional players could thrive and a time where role definition was king. That is no longer, and hasn’t been the case in soccer for quite some time.

Top-rate defenders are already good on the ball. And capable attacking players can track back with the best of them. Complete players are not the goal; they are the expectation. The modern game demands it. So let’s ditch that nauseating descriptor and focus on other characterizations, such as “Good Football,” or “Winning Football,” or “Attacking Football.”...

[BearcatSA]

^I'd say +2 on those points.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

I'm usually not a fan of Gareth Wheeler but this latest article is actually quite good:

http://www.lfpress.com/sports/soccer/2011/01/19/16955656.html

...Not listed among the positives has been the over-used and over-stated proclamation “Total Football” has arrived at TFC. It’s nonsense.

“Total Football” is out-dated. It stems from a time where one-dimensional players could thrive and a time where role definition was king. That is no longer, and hasn’t been the case in soccer for quite some time.

Top-rate defenders are already good on the ball. And capable attacking players can track back with the best of them. Complete players are not the goal; they are the expectation. The modern game demands it. So let’s ditch that nauseating descriptor and focus on other characterizations, such as “Good Football,” or “Winning Football,” or “Attacking Football.”...

Yeah, very blunt and true.

Agreed 100% on his points.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Yeah, very blunt and true.

Agreed 100% on his points.

I don't really get what you guys are agreeing with.

The vast majority of defensive players in pro football cannot play out of the back, even less so push into the midfield and distribute.

The majority of mids lose more balls than they pass effectively, even in the top leagues. Usually a team has one and maybe two given that responsibility, the others are there to bit at attackers coming through and push the ball over to the creative mid, if any, so he can do that job.

Few teams ask of their attackers the most rudimentary pressure on the other team's defenders, most just coast.

I do not see total players hardly anywhere. I see players coughing up the ball constantly under pressure and doing bit parts.

The only thing that pros do well in their majority is get behind the ball when the other team has it. I do not say pressure well or collectively, nor tackle cleanly. It is mere positioning.

So I say you can still learn from the principles of what was called Total Football, because it does suggest coordinated off the ball play both in defense and offence, precise passing technique, confidence in holding the ball and not just hoofing it up field, alternating positions in the flow of the game, multi-functionality of almost all players:

-attackers falling to both wings, playing behind a main striker, playing against the opposing defenders in the middle, and pressuring;

-mids supporting attack and defense and always giving whoever has the ball an option, and not screwing up more passes than they make, taking long shots, running into the holes attackers leave into scoring positions;

-outside defenders going forward into the middle to give their teams advantage with the ball

-centre defenders defending man-to-man and in zone, and playing out cleanly instead of using the proverbial Hail Mary system

-keepers playing as sweepers when their defence is defending up high to force offsides, and to cut off counterattacks, passing out with their feet and hands

Coordinated modern football. Folks talk about it, few teams play it, a few coaches know how to coach it, and only some players are up to it if asked to play that way.

If you have a technical staff that insists on it, and give them time to implement it and sign players to be able to do so if the current roster can't, then you have come a long way.

That would seem to me to be what TFC is looking for when hiring someone schooled at Ajax. Pretty immense task, and not something you could honestly say is done well by more than a couple dozen teams in the world.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

...That would seem to me to be what TFC is looking for when hiring someone schooled at Ajax. Pretty immense task, and not something you could honestly say is done well by more than a couple dozen teams in the world.

The main thing I agreed with is that the whole "Total Football" thing, which has been much repeated in MLSE's in house Gol TV clips, is a piece of marketing spin more than anything else.

Beyond that although a couple of dozen clubs is maybe a slight overstatement it is not a drastic one, in my opinion. In the original post I argued TFC has an identity crisis. People seem to have the perception/expectation that they should be able to watch a club similar to that elite sort of group because that is what they have been used to watching on cable but the reality of what MLS entails in terms of playing style is inevitably going to be different from that when players like Dan Gargan have to be signed due to the low salary budget.

If Winter is dogmatic in his approach odds on he will depart the scene every bit as quickly as Ruud Gullit did in LA because he won't have the players at his disposal to consistently achieve what he wants to achieve. Not saying that is inevitably what is going to unfold but the course TFC have embarked on is a high risk one.

[tmcmurph]

Gareth Wheeler

Total Football is out-dated. It stems from a time where one-dimensional players could thrive and a time where role definition was king. That is no longer, and hasn't been the case in soccer for quite some time.

What? Sorry but that statement is just pure WRONG. The definitions I have and that I have now looked up go like this:

"in which any outfield player can take over the role of any other player in a team. "

Yes all players today need to be multidimensional but far from dead and done total football has evolved yet again and would be better called "Barca Ball" today. Defenders becoming forwards, mids becoming defenders or forwards, left and right side switching, doing overlaps horizontally and vertically. That is what I see when I watch Barcellona and AC Milan play (less so in AC Milan's case).

With Spain's success at the Euro and WC with a relatively small team all the other countries in the world who don't have huge players have started down that path. Did you see Chile at the WC? Holy Spain-Lite Batman was my response. Japan & Korea are coming on with the same strategy for the same reasons.

No Total Football isn't dead it has just morphed. Maybe we should label it like video games "Total Football II".

Total football far from being dead has morphed and is now transforming soccer once again. It is like the gift that keeps giving.

PS. Yes I think MLSE is hyping it. It relies on all players being good on the ball and like others have said that isn't the majority of teams in any league. If they give it time it will take hold. Ontario has a great Futsal scene going and that will make a huge difference in the coming years.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

You are missing his point. He is arguing that "total football" as a term is hopelessly out-dated. It was used over 30 years ago to highlight the difference between what the Dutch were doing in the early to mid-70s and the older traditional approach based on a high level of specialization in playing specific positions that led to players often having a limited skills set. That marked difference in approach isn't really there any more to anything like the same extent in the modern game so the term is completely obsolete and its use in the present day is cringeworthy at best (I thought his use of "nauseating" was maybe a bit too strong). That's why he'd prefer that people talked instead about “Good Football,” or “Winning Football,” or “Attacking Football.” Of those three the last one makes most sense to me and I'd throw in references to "an Ajax-style 4-3-3" as well.

[Keegan]

You are missing his point. He is arguing that "total football" as a term is hopelessly out-dated. It was used over 30 years ago to highlight the difference between what the Dutch were doing in the early to mid-70s and the older traditional approach based on a high level of specialization in playing specific positions that isn't really there any more in the modern game. That marked difference in approach isn't there any more so the term is completely obsolete and it's use is cringeworthy at best (I thought his use of "nauseating" was a bit too strong). That's why he'd prefer that people talked instead about “Good Football,” or “Winning Football,” or “Attacking Football.” Of those three the last one makes most sense to me and I'd throw in references to "an Ajax-style 4-3-3" as well.

No one should be surprised TFC is using "Total Football" as its next marketing ploy. Yup with the same amount of cap space as every team in the league we are going to play a distinctive brand of football from everyone else, give me a break! This is MLS, its a blue collar league where you fight for every point every match no matter who you face theres no room for a real system with MLS rosters because if you lose one guy to injury/suspension suddenly you might have a 30k bench player starting and you're back at square one. Everyone should get this "Total Football" idea out of their heads or 2011 is going to be more disappointing than any other year.

Hell though I'd rather see that on the back of the collar than that overused slogan "All For One" hahaha, like I follow TWO club teams die hard in all of sports Chicago Blackhawks and Toronto FC and they've BOTH used that stupid slogan.... ughhhh can't stand it, what is this the three musketeers?

[Alex D]

For any chance of being able to implement "Total Football" in Toronto, TFC need to start their academy at the U10 level and teach it from the start. Then they have to hope that in 10-15 years team they will have enough players that have come through this system that are highly skilled enough to pull this off, yet are able to fit under whatever salary cap MLS has at that point.

Until all of that happens, TFC will just be playing a 4-3-3 and trying to attack, while calling it total football.

[Macksam]

I'm usually not a fan of Gareth Wheeler but this latest article is actually quite good:

http://www.lfpress.com/sports/soccer/2011/01/19/16955656.html

...Not listed among the positives has been the over-used and over-stated proclamation “Total Football” has arrived at TFC. It’s nonsense.

“Total Football” is out-dated. It stems from a time where one-dimensional players could thrive and a time where role definition was king. That is no longer, and hasn’t been the case in soccer for quite some time.

Top-rate defenders are already good on the ball. And capable attacking players can track back with the best of them. Complete players are not the goal; they are the expectation. The modern game demands it. So let’s ditch that nauseating descriptor and focus on other characterizations, such as “Good Football,” or “Winning Football,” or “Attacking Football.”...

Total football is not an outdated term when new teams like Korea, Japan and Russia are implementing it for the first time. As a matter of fact, it will be brand spanking new when it comes to the MLS, if TFC are successful in implementing it that is. Wheeler is wrong on this one.

[Grizzly]

Total football is not an outdated term when new teams like Korea, Japan and Russia are implementing it for the first time. As a matter of fact, it will be brand spanking new when it comes to the MLS, if TFC are successful in implementing it that is. Wheeler is wrong on this one.

In the World Cup, Japan looked to have implemented bunkering defensive football. Russia style by contrast is "attack and don't give a **** about defending" which is not total football either.

[Keegan]

In the World Cup, Japan looked to have implemented bunkering defensive football. Russia style by contrast is "attack and don't give a **** about defending" which is not total football either.

Agreed and to add to that total football is outdated I don't know why anyone would play it (who does anyways?) when there is the upgrade in Tiki Taka out now

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

You know you are getting old and probably turning into what you used to despise when one of the younger generation posts something and you have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Have googled and it makes sense now. Watching the World Cup with a Japanese language commentary probably didn't help. To me "total football" meant how the Dutch players had the complete skills set in 1974 and could switch positions at will completely throwing off teams that still had the older mindset that a player was a left winger or a centre half or whatever and could be expected to play a certain way in a fixed role within a 4-4-2 or some other formation through the course of the game. Coach tells a defender before the game I want you to do a man to man marking job on Johnny Rep, he's their main threat up front. Rep proceeds to play deep in midfield for the first ten minutes, while one of the midfielders plays up front. Defender is left in a quandry as to what to do and during the confusion the Dutch score their first goal. That sort of thing. The game has moved on in a big way since then so there is no marked contrast in approach in that regard to describe with that term any more. It's being used as a piece of marketing spin to get people believing that TFC are suddenly going to play like the Dutch national team because there are probably still expensive seats and luxury boxes to fill after the way many people at the top end of the ticket price scale failed to renew, sponsorship deals to be renegotiated, merchandise to sell etc.

[jpg75]

Actually, a TFC employee told me when i was buying my Season seats that one of the highest renewal rates was apparently Club seating. I think most of the folks that bailed were in the dark red and dark grey seats (2nd and 3rd most expensive).