munseahawk Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 My first thought here is it's a bit unusual to hire the coach before you hire the GM. The people in those 2 roles need to be on the same page in terms of playing style and player preference in order to get this team moving in the right direction. Now if the Technical Director role is the equivalent of the GM, then that takes care of that. I'm not that familiar with that role to know if it fills the same role as a GM. My other thought on hearing this news was is there still a place for Dasovic? I feel that Nick did an admirable job in the 10 games he was in charge and there should still be a place for him in the new staff if he wants it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 this is a big move for those of us who have been waiting for the dutch invasion in Canada for some time. Not enough Dutch coaches here, given the level of expertise they have. Most of my coaching books come from the dutch... anyone recall if Winter was playing in 94 at Varsity. Seems to recall that he was there. Good for exposure for him and for us too. As for figuring out salary caps and so on - this is seriously hampering the league (not to mention the NHL). I'm sure he'll hate the Designated player rule pretty quickly...amongst others...good to have Mariner in to sort that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 anyone recall if Winter was playing in 94 at Varsity. Seems to recall that he was there. He probably had a good view of his fellow Surinamer Ulrich van Gobbel nearly amputating the testicles of Corrazin on a bad challenge. Some friendly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Dang. Sounds like we could have had Bergkamp! On a continent that he'd have to fly to get to? In a league where air travel is the only option? This guy sometimes missed European club games and Euro and WC qualifiers because he's terrified of planes. Come to think of it, I find planes scary too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKottonmouthed1555362307 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 My first thought here is it's a bit unusual to hire the coach before you hire the GM. The people in those 2 roles need to be on the same page in terms of playing style and player preference in order to get this team moving in the right direction. Now if the Technical Director role is the equivalent of the GM, then that takes care of that. I'm not that familiar with that role to know if it fills the same role as a GM. My other thought on hearing this news was is there still a place for Dasovic? I feel that Nick did an admirable job in the 10 games he was in charge and there should still be a place for him in the new staff if he wants it. To me if Winter is the TD and Coach what would the GM do anyways, he'd be underneath and above the same person. So maybe they have fused it all into one and thats gonna come out in the details during the conference. because your right it doesn't make sense to hire coach before a gm in a perfect world the new gm would like to bring in his own coach. Interested to see in Mariner will still come on in some capacity. Can't wait to see what kind of players Winter could target though, Erevidse has a couple players that could prove useful for TFC, De Jong in particular replace Jimmy Brennan finally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 According to Gerry Dobson, Mariner will be the technical director. Winter will be the manager and de Klerk will be his assistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 So, here's the $50 question: where does this leave Dasovic and Cochrane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Looking for new jobs maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 LOL! Were you expecting TFC to hire Jose Mourinho? Klinsmann talked of bringing a "philosphy" to TFC, and it appears that that's what he is doing. This seems to be a total revamp of the club at the technical level, and it is a ballsy move, so as a TFC fan I'm pleasantly surprised with the move. In MLS, nothing is guaranteed. They went with an "experienced" MLS guy in Preki and it led to a player revolt and a worse record than the previous season. This is a step in a completely different direction. You are being very presumtuous that these are "cheap" hirings, but I'm not going to ever expect you to say a positive word about TFC, so I'll take that one with a grain of salt. NYRB went with similar moves last year and it worked out well for them, so the precedent is there. Only time will tell whether this works out well, but I'm willing to give the new regime a chance. No I was not expecting them to hire Mourinho or any other top rank/really prominent coach. I would expect a competent team in TFC's current situation to hire someone with experience and a consistent record of success in at least decent 2nd division leagues or with smaller 1st division teams. At the very least he should have experience as a head coach of a professional team. Winters has coached a grand total of ZERO professional games. And lets clarify something absolutely incorrect that you are claiming. TFC has never gone with "an "experienced" MLS guy" or an experienced guy in any manner. In fact, last year we had a thread like this with all you TFC guys going "We got Preki" and expecting great things. I pointed out in the thread that 3 years coaching in MLS was very little experience especially when in his previous post he inherited a good team from the previous coach and only had moderate success and was poor in the playoffs. I received a similar response then to what my comments are getting here. TFC has had 5 coaches in 4 years. Their coaching experience pre-TFC was 17 MLS game for Mo, 6 EPL games for Carver as interim coach and Preki's 3 years. Winters will not add one game of professional managing experience to that. Any final candidate for the position let alone the guy who won the job should have more experience than the 6 TFC coaches combined. And yes I am being presumptious about the hiring being cheap. Why? Because Winters should be cheap because as I stated earlier he has coached ZERO professional soccer games. If they are paying him a lot of money (entirely possible with TFC) for being a great player in the past or being a youth coach for Ajax they are being stupid. Apparently they had 3 final candidates for the job with Winters and Marriner being two of them and that is a pretty unimpressive list. The list is either unimpressive because they are not offering much money or because they went about the coaching search in the wrong way. Winters is also not coming directly from Ajax as many seem to believe as he and Ajax mutually agreed to part ways in the spring of 2009. It is interesting that not even a 2nd division Dutch team hired him during his year and a half of unemployment. Also he never held one of the top jobs in the Ajax youth setup as far as I can see (De Boer was in charge of the youth section when Winters was there). Winters seems to have never been involved with the Ajax reserve team, to have been assistant coach of their top youth team and then became head coach of their 2nd youth team. Ajax has a good youth system and he would probably be a good choice as TD or director of the TFC youth program. To take a guy whose highest position in football management was head coach of Ajax's 2nd youth team and make him your head coach seems pretty risky. TFC has a long history of hiring inexperienced coaches. I think we all know how that has worked out for you so far. Yes eventually one of them will turn out to be good just by the law of averages and maybe Winters will be that guy. However, while every coach should be given a chance I would be pretty disappointed by his choice if I were a TFC fan. Even if one stuck to just Dutch coaches there are so many guys who are just more qualified than Winters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 tl;dr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 ^is that the forum equivalent of a child plugging his ears with his fingers and shouting 'nananana...' to avoid dealing with what somebody is telling them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 ^is that the forum equivalent of a child plugging his ears with his fingers and shouting 'nananana...' to avoid dealing with what somebody is telling them? Something like that. Grizzly usually makes some really good points from time to time, I just wish he'd learn to paraphrase once in a while. Lord Bob had it right in this post in the "I hate bloggers" thead when he intimated that some posts are too damned long for such discussions. On topic: We'll see what the new regime looks like on Thursday. They all have a decent enough background, and a clean slate free from the MoJo era, so that's a positive. MLS is a league where the only "slam dunk" coaches are less than a handful of guys who have been here from the beginning, and even they have had blemishes along the way. As such, anything outside of hiring Schmid or Arena was going to be a risk for TFC. This at least looks like a calculated risk, one made by the highly-touted (ie. not cheap) consultant they hired to revamp the entire organization. Let's see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocker Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 MLS is a league where the only "slam dunk" coaches are less than a handful of guys who have been here from the beginning, and even they have had blemishes along the way. As such, anything outside of hiring Schmid or Arena was going to be a risk for TFC. yup, and Arena failed in NY, getting himself fired. Sigi had some awful years at the beginning in Columbus before getting things together. Jason Kreis had no experience in MLS before he started and look where he's taken RSL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 So, here's the $50 question: where does this leave Dasovic and Cochrane? Tempted to annoy some people on here by writing a blog entry about this and posting a link. Some of the reactions to doing that here and elsewhere have been an eyeopener to say the least. Too busy simply making a living at the moment to write something nuanced and in depth, however. My guess based on the fact that three people are arriving including one with considerable MLS experience is that Klinsmann's advice was to clear the decks and get rid of Dasovic and Cochrane but because of some of Tom Anselmi's earlier statement I suspect they will be offered some greatly reduced role in the hope they'll take the hint and move on to pastures new. Think that's a positive development. The last thing TFC needs is for a CSA old boys network to become entrenched. Better to get the best available people internationally regardless of citizenship and along with the Whitecaps and the Impact slowly build a new pro level Canadian soccer culture Ajax sort of style from the academy level up so that in a couple of decades there will eventually be no need to look overseas because something will have grown organically that will be fully self-sustaining at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Just as a general FYI: BigBird passed on the resumes of 2 former Serie A coaches and neither he nor the coaches ever heard anything from the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFCRegina Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Just as a general FYI: BigBird passed on the resumes of 2 former Serie A coaches and neither he nor the coaches ever heard anything from the club. I've mentioned this on the TFC boards. I also told BigBird what I believe to be the rationale for not contacting them (that they wanted to go for dutch or german coaches for their stereotypical coaching style). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFCRegina Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Some bits from the presser: New state of the art training facility Mariner is in charge of the academy, scouting and "player management" Winter is in charge of the whole operation and tactical decisions De Klerk is first assistant. Jason Bent gets promoted within the organization. Neely takes over the academy program (as in he reports to Mariner) Academy to be enlarged (from what I could hazard in Tommy A's words - probably being extended down to U-14) TFC finally to develop a scouting network Yeah, I'm pumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Some bits from the presser: New state of the art training facility Mariner is in charge of the academy, scouting and "player management" Winter is in charge of the whole operation and tactical decisions De Klerk is first assistant. Jason Bent gets promoted within the organization. Neely takes over the academy program (as in he reports to Mariner) Academy to be enlarged (from what I could hazard in Tommy A's words - probably being extended down to U-14) TFC finally to develop a scouting network Yeah, I'm pumped. Sounds good. Wonder what "getting promoted within the organization" means for Jason Bent? I have one question for those "in charge"; why wasn't a scouting network setup from Day 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Sounds good. Wonder what "getting promoted within the organization" means for Jason Bent? I have one question for those "in charge"; why wasn't a scouting network setup from Day 1? Well we had Mo Johnston who has international pedigree, knew every good player in MLS and only picked winners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Frankly, I lost track of who is now doing what at TFC. They said Earl Cochrane was promoted but will be reporting to Paul Mariner, who appears to me to be doing what Earl did before he became Interim GM. Bent, Brennan and Dasovic were all said to be remaining with the club and taking on unspecified "important positions" - Chief Scout, Assistant Chief Scout and Deputy Chief Scout perhaps? There was no indication that Dasovic would still be an assistant coach, and I don't recall that Dichio was mentioned at all. I am genuinely excited by the new trio that is in place, who at least gave the impression of confidence and knowledge moreso than a certain Scottish former coach & GM did. And I even spotted John TV on tv during the press conference - living up to his poster name at last! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well we had Mo Johnston who has international pedigree, knew every good player in MLS and only picked winners He always defered to his Director of Scouting, Barry MacLean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footscray Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I think bringing in a coach so well versed in the Ajax program was brilliant and I just watched Winter's first interview with Goltv and was impressed further. He seems to be solely focused on the youth academy as his primary feeder long term, going so far as to say something about not needing the ncaa draft to supply players down the road which I thought is a bold vision for MLS, the same one the Caps seem to be committed to already. I think that bodes exceptionally well for the National team and TFC if it is successful. The Caps already have a world class model in place, don't know much about the Impact organization but even without any knowledge there, the player development structures and facilities in Canada that have been built in the last 4-5 years, frankly I wouldn't have believed could happen 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFCRegina Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Sounds good. Wonder what "getting promoted within the organization" means for Jason Bent? I have one question for those "in charge"; why wasn't a scouting network setup from Day 1? I think MLS has only 1 scout in Latin America alone. Toronto FC went cheap on the scouting network and hired First Wave (connections to Mo and Preki [Preki's brother is an agent there]) to do the "scouting." And by scouting I mean sending all their crap players over to TFC to sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I think MLS has only 1 scout in Latin America alone. When you say MLS you mean the league central office right? I know DC United has atleast 1 scout, possibly 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I love the line in the interview about in the future "we won't need the draft because we will have lots of developed Canadian kids". Oh yea, that's my man You would think he was from one of the best football development systems on the planet or something .... Oh wait he is! Never mind. This bodes well for Toronto and the CMNT. It may take a while but you have 6 million to draw from for your academy which is more than some countries who were at the WC last summer. It might take some time but I think this is an all around great setup for TFC. One who knows MLS, one who knows soccer organization and an assistant who is on the same page of the playbook. We shall see but I think TFC are getting to the point where the Caps were last year in the organization part. Now if Montreal can learn from the mistakes of others and I'll bet they will go with an Italian philosophy, style and coach. Just a hunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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