Yallop and Watson scout Japan

[nolando]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/mls-expands-international-scouting-network

"The San Jose Earthquakes will hope to find the next Kimura on Tuesday at the start of the J.League player combine. Head coach Frank Yallop and his assistant, Mark Watson, will both be in attendance to scout 150 J.League free agents in an event organized by the Japanese players' union."

Wonder if anyone from Vancouver was there, given their success with Hirano?

I have said it before but I think Vancouver would be a very attractive destination for a lot of Japanese players looking to have that overseas experience.

[Blue and White Army]

You'd get paid more in the J. League than MLS, no?

If so, good luck beating 20-year-old, club-based scouting networks to any decent talent.

[Marc]

Yeah but these are the leftover guys without contracts, no?

[jpg75]

MLS teams would likely be fighting for J-League 2 type talent, no?

(C'mon next guy, keep it going)

[SthMelbRed]

North American players tend to be less-skilled, more athletic, and better-suited to a physical game in comparison to Japanese players, who tend to be technically excellent and super fit, but a bit lightweight. I think a partnership between an MLS club academy and a J-League club academy would be mutually beneficial. The clubs could organise 3-6 month exchanges where the Japanese 16 year-old prospect trains with the MLS academy and learns some lessons in physicality that will serve him well later in his career when he's playing internationally or trying to make a go of it in Europe and the 16 year-old MLS prospect trains with the J-League side, developing their technical skills. I'd love to see such a program in place between the 'Caps and either Gamba or Cerezo Osaka (the two local teams I followed when I lived in Japan).

[nolando]

I've always felt that J1 was pretty close to MLS (as a very general appraisal) and J2 very uneven, much like NASL this past year, with a couple of storied clubs, some top-level prospects and a bunch of guys winding down careers. Marc, you're right, this would be mostly a camp of castoffs, many with the same resumes as the names we saw in the last MLS draft.

I think a lot of players in either scenario I mentioned would take a pay cut to try out such a vastly different system of soccer - Japanese football is very strict, very disciplined, with regimented, old world hierarchies from players right up to management. I suspect many would be willing to give that a break for a year or two, language and cultural barrier (not to mention pay cut) or not.

I think there is always the potential for a diamond in the rough or the next Hirano, a guy looking to wind down his career in a more relaxed setting, especially in a high-profile North American city.

It's worth scouting, no?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

I've always felt that J1 was pretty close to MLS (as a very general appraisal) and J2 very uneven, ...

Sounds about right. Some of J2 is really not that good (they keep adding more and more teams from progressively smaller cities and it doesn't help the quality) but the top few J1 teams are probably better than anything MLS has to offer. Think a lot of Japanese players would find it difficult to adjust to the physical side and athleticism of the game in North America but in terms of technical skills no problem at all for players on the fringes of J1 looking for a new challenge. Sadly not surprised that it isn't TFC making the effort to do some scouting.

[SthMelbRed]

I didn't get to watch much J League this past season, but based on the two previous seasons, I'd say that J1 teams, particular at the top end, are far superior to anybody in MLS. Because J League teams don't work under the same stringent financial rules that MLS clubs do, they can retain and attract a level of talent that MLS can't.

If you watch the AFC Champions' League semi-final from 2008, between Urawa Reds and Gamba, and the quality on display far surpassed anything I've ever seen in an MLS game, be it regular season or playoffs. Gamba also pushed Man Utd. quite hard in the Club World Cup later that year, as well. I don't think MLS has a player that could match the quality of Gamba's Yasuhito Endo, for example. I'm looking forward to them coming back to Melbourne again this year in the AFC Champions' League.

[nolando]

^ Oh I think Donovan is at least the level of Endo, who I've long felt is overrated within Japan (and underrated outside of it), despite being from my wife's part of Japan.

But you are right about the top J1 clubs being better than top MLS clubs.

[ag futbol]

^ fair enough. In the one off that is the pan-pacific tournament featuring a MLS team, J-league, A-league, and one other i can't remember. MLS played around the A-league level (maybe slightly better) and the J-league team mopped the floor with the other two if memory serves.

[SthMelbRed]

^I really appreciate Endo's quality as a Pirlo-esque midfielder. I'm surprised that you think he's overrated. He's one player I'm looking forward to seeing when Gamba come to town in a few months. The other is the left back, Yasuda. He's a Roberto Carlo-style left back who was only 20 when Gamba won the AFC Champions' League in '08. He was also pretty impressive in the CWC that year. I'm looking forward to seeing how much he's progressed in the last three years.

[SthMelbRed]

^ fair enough. In the one off that is the pan-pacific tournament featuring a MLS team, J-league, A-league, and one other i can't remember. MLS played around the A-league level (maybe slightly better) and the J-league team mopped the floor with the other two if memory serves.

As somebody who has lived in Vancouver, Osaka, and Melbourne over the last 10 years, I'd say that J1>MLS>A League. I think MLS will struggle to reach J1 levels as long as they have such restrictive salary cap and convoluted roster rules in place. A League will never reach MLS levels, never mind J League levels.

[Blue and White Army]

It's worth scouting, no?

In my opinion, no, it's not. I feel that it would be much more worthwhile to go to a country where the pay is low; and where the league, club football and club scouting networks are weaker. I would say going somewhere like Vietnam or Indonesia, finding a talented youngster, and giving him some excellent coaching (which he wouldn't ever get with his local club) would be your best bet.

Depends how much time MLS have to invest in talent, I suppose.

MLS have announced that they now have one Asian scout... and he's from Japan, home of Asia's richest and most developed league (and most developed scouting networks). Good luck competing with Japanese clubs that have been building their scouting networks for 20+ years, and have their tentacles in every high school and youth club in their local catchment area.

When MLS has the resources to have 10 Asian scouts, then have one or two specialize in Japan. But until then, I would focus on the poorer countries where it's cheap to buy players.

[Trident]

What I can't understand is how SthMelbRed was a fan of both Cerezo and Gamba?

That's ridiculous.

[nolando]

In my opinion, no, it's not. I feel that it would be much more worthwhile to go to a country where the pay is low; and where the league, club football and club scouting networks are weaker. I would say going somewhere like Vietnam or Indonesia, finding a talented youngster, and giving him some excellent coaching (which he wouldn't ever get with his local club) would be your best bet.

Depends how much time MLS have to invest in talent, I suppose.

MLS have announced that they now have one Asian scout... and he's from Japan, home of Asia's richest and most developed league (and most developed scouting networks). Good luck competing with Japanese clubs that have been building their scouting networks for 20+ years, and have their tentacles in every high school and youth club in their local catchment area.

When MLS has the resources to have 10 Asian scouts, then have one or two specialize in Japan. But until then, I would focus on the poorer countries where it's cheap to buy players.

Oh, I agree, I don't think Japan should be the only league MLS scouts or even top of the list. But if there is a one-off combine like this, and you are a club that has already had a successful relationship with a late-career Japanese player (as Vancouver had with Hirano), then why not add it to the list of places for prospective talent, another stop on your off-season tour?

It seems to me that the gems for this league are always going to be found in the poorest parts of latin america, africa, etc. where MLS can poach players from clubs that lack the infrastructure and the cash to compete, and get them at a bargain, no less. Maybe there are diamonds-in-the rough hiding out in the lower leagues of Asia. Hard to say, as I don't think the league (with only a couple clubs as exceptions) can necessarily offer the years and the highest quality of development that such players generally require to become top professionals.

[SthMelbRed]

What I can't understand is how SthMelbRed was a fan of both Cerezo and Gamba?

That's ridiculous.

It's not like I grew up on Merseyside supporting both Liverpool and Everton, or in Buenos Aires supporting both Boca and River. I lived in Osaka for three years as an adult and attended matches for both clubs during that time. In fact, I've also been to Vissel Kobe matches. Cerezo was my local club in Osaka (I lived southeast of the city and they play in a southern suburb, whereas Gamba is based in north Osaka) but I always look for the results of all four Kansai teams (Gamba, Cerezo, Vissel, and Kyoto Purple Sanga) hoping that they all do well. I will be sitting with the away supporters when Gamba come to Melbourne in a few months, just as I did when they played here three years ago.

[Trident]

It's not like I grew up on Merseyside supporting both Liverpool and Everton, or in Buenos Aires supporting both Boca and River. I lived in Osaka for three years as an adult and attended matches for both clubs during that time. In fact, I've also been to Vissel Kobe matches. Cerezo was my local club in Osaka (I lived southeast of the city and they play in a southern suburb, whereas Gamba is based in north Osaka) but I always look for the results of all four Kansai teams (Gamba, Cerezo, Vissel, and Kyoto Purple Sanga) hoping that they all do well. I will be sitting with the away supporters when Gamba come to Melbourne in a few months, just as I did when they played here three years ago.

Yeah I know where Gamba plays. My friend works in Suita, so I went to the ground and such. Still, the fact you even wasted your money on Cerezo games back then is such a crazy notion.

[ag futbol]

I think it might actually be worth scouting, but for different reasons.

Maybe it's some of the foreign talent being lured to japan for the money, that can subsequently be convert to the DP slots in MLS. Otherwise, I can't see too much practicality in it.

[Blue and White Army]

Still, the fact you even wasted your money on Cerezo games back then is such a crazy notion.

Heh, you're right in that the "Osaka derby" didn't really even exist until recent years. Loved how Cerezo was above Gamba for most of this season, though. Both in the AFC Champions League next year... that'll be interesting.

But Trident, how can you criticize supporting small, unfashionable clubs in the lower leagues? That's the best part of football in countries with decent football pyramids, in my opinion!

[tmcmurph]

I think they are technique oriented and that comes from constant repetition with the ball. I remember an interview with Hirano who said that Luca's teenage schedule sounded like a holiday. Hirano's schedule was one of those OMG moments. The amount of work he put into it was truly staggering and from what he said it wasn't that unusual. If you think of obsessive compulsive gaming behavior you think of orientals and some take that same attitude to sports. The higher salary cap will also be a huge part of the J-League's success.

[nolando]

^ orientals?? Oh yah, sorry, you are from Alberta. I almost forgot there for a second. :>

[Blue and White Army]

^ orientals?? Oh yah, sorry, you are from Alberta. I almost forgot there for a second. :>

Don't make eye contact with the Occidental.

[Jeremy]

The article talks about Japan and the J League but also says:

The latest addition is MLS Asian scouting coordinator Takehiko Nakamura, who will be looking to open a bigger door for players from the Asian Football Confederation to come through to ply their trade in MLS.

So I would hope that they hired this guy not only for his knowledge of the J League but of the other countries in the AFC too (Vietnam, Thailand, China, India, etc)

[Blue and White Army]

"Hope" being the key word... but he has never played in any of them. I would assume he's now building his knowledge from scratch.

[tmcmurph]

^ orientals?? Oh yah, sorry, you are from Alberta. I almost forgot there for a second. :>

Funny thing is my wife is and when gaming online my son sometimes gets asked "are you oriental?" and he replies "half"

Something about obsessive gaming and being really good at it seems to fit the oriental mentality. Maybe it is the Chinese Chess and Go they play (I can move the pieces but am toast if my opponent is any good at all).

I'm aware of 3 people who died on gaming binges that lasted days. 2 were Korean and 1 was Chinese. Not saying all orientals are nutso gamers and obsessive but some sure are. Maybe it is just the fact that there are close to 2 billion orientals? That seems the most likely explanation to me.