masster Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 ^ He is not currently under contract so I assume the answer would be no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKottonmouthed1555362307 Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 ^ He is not currently under contract so I assume the answer would be no. not a MLS contract, but isn't he still tied to the Caps by contract some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 ^His contract, as with most players, ran out at the end of the 2010 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Ryan O'Leary on trial. Decent SPL defender: http://www.whitecapsfc.com/roster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_O%27Leary Interesting news on O'Leary...he has a Canadian passport. His Mom is Canadian and his grandparents live in Surrey. I wonder if this means that he would qualify as a non-international? http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Leary+pedigree/4161267/story.html http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Caps+open+spirited+soggy+camp/4161505/story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 not a MLS contract, but isn't he still tied to the Caps by contract some way. And that's what i was trying to tell you guys before. If any of these players is not signed to an MLS contract then they are not tied to you in any way, they can leave at any time. Edwini-Bonsu, if he's not on the 30 man roster is bound by an amateur contract if he decides to stay with your Residency/PDL squad and can sign with anyone outside MLS at anytime and you'll only get some money because of his age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Interesting news on O'Leary...he has a Canadian passport. His Mom is Canadian and his grandparents live in Surrey. I wonder if this means that he would qualify as a non-international? http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Leary+pedigree/4161267/story.html http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Caps+open+spirited+soggy+camp/4161505/story.html It's a shame, really, that he hasn't kept himself in tip-top shape because this extra info makes it sound like he could be a great pick up. The experience in "real life" employment served him well by the sounds of things, and maybe he'll be the Caps version Alex Burrows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKottonmouthed1555362307 Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 And that's what i was trying to tell you guys before. If any of these players is not signed to an MLS contract then they are not tied to you in any way, they can leave at any time. Edwini-Bonsu, if he's not on the 30 man roster is bound by an amateur contract if he decides to stay with your Residency/PDL squad and can sign with anyone outside MLS at anytime and you'll only get some money because of his age. They aren't bound to us with no option, no. Though we hold there rights on the Transfer Market and would gain something if they pursue other options, or if they decide to stick it out here in the PDL, to be honest couldn't care less if they stay or go. Either way we gain from the situation. Either we keep a couple young prospects around in the PDL to be eventually try and earn an MLS contract, or we let them move on and get some financial return and the satisfaction our development program is working as other clubs abroad see our talent as attractive. I don't think anyone is claiming that the players on the Non-MLS contracts are imprisoned here till we see fit to use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 "I don't think anyone is claiming that the players on the Non-MLS contracts are imprisoned here till we see fit to use them." Quite the contrary, the Whitecaps have been delighted any time one of their young players has had an opportunity to play abroad and have been quite willing to let them go with best wishes and often an invitation to return if it doesn't work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamo Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 "I don't think anyone is claiming that the players on the Non-MLS contracts are imprisoned here till we see fit to use them." Quite the contrary, the Whitecaps have been delighted any time one of their young players has had an opportunity to play abroad and have been quite willing to let them go with best wishes and often an invitation to return if it doesn't work out. They wouldn't release Arnoux to join the Super Draft. The reality is they are a business and contracts are assets. I would guess at some point if they don't find a buyer for Arnoux they won't force him to play in the PDL the whole year, but you never know. I could see a trade to a USL team for someone they can sign to an MLS deal.(??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKottonmouthed1555362307 Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 They wouldn't release Arnoux to join the Super Draft. The reality is they are a business and contracts are assets. I would guess at some point if they don't find a buyer for Arnoux they won't force him to play in the PDL the whole year, but you never know. I could see a trade to a USL team for someone they can sign to an MLS deal.(??) To the Superdraft. Trust me if Arnoux wanted to go to Mexico or Europe. We would not stand in his way, but come on of course we don't want these kids available to other MLS teams where the players could in turn then hurt us. Common Sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Interesting news on O'Leary...he has a Canadian passport. His Mom is Canadian and his grandparents live in Surrey. I wonder if this means that he would qualify as a non-international? http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Leary+pedigree/4161267/story.html http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Caps+open+spirited+soggy+camp/4161505/story.html I believe someone qualifies as a Canadian or non-international if they have citizenship, have a passport, or have permanent residency status. O'Leary would qualify as a non international player and if he sticks with the caps, he could play for Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 They aren't bound to us with no option, no. Though we hold there rights on the Transfer Market and would gain something if they pursue other options, or if they decide to stick it out here in the PDL, to be honest couldn't care less if they stay or go. Either way we gain from the situation. Either we keep a couple young prospects around in the PDL to be eventually try and earn an MLS contract, or we let them move on and get some financial return and the satisfaction our development program is working as other clubs abroad see our talent as attractive. I don't think anyone is claiming that the players on the Non-MLS contracts are imprisoned here till we see fit to use them. Actually, you would not hold their rights in the transfer market, that's what i'm getting at. I'm not insinuating the players are imprisoned to the 'Caps, i'm saying they have absolutely no tie to the club if they're in the PDL and not signed to an MLS contract. They can leave whenever and all you get is a fee for their development. No professional rights get transfered because you will not hold their pro rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I am not sure you are correct on that jpg75. As far as I am aware players are required to sign a pro contract with the club when they join the Residency. I am not sure which Whitecaps corporate entity is involved however as the 'new' whitecapsfc.com site does not have a Residency or Youth component as the old NASL/USL site did and my memory has faded in my dotage ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I am not sure you are correct on that jpg75. As far as I am aware players are required to sign a pro contract with the club when they join the Residency. I am not sure which Whitecaps corporate entity is involved however as the 'new' whitecapsfc.com site does not have a Residency or Youth component as the old NASL/USL site did and my memory has faded in my dotage ;-) Were required to sign a pro contract with the club, Richard. Now that you have joined MLS that will no longer be the case. MLS Academy players are signed to amateur contracts, they can leave at any time with the club receiving minimal compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM2 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 ^^The new website does have a link to the PDL (residency) team, and you are correct most of those players were signed to pro contracts. Vancouver ran a "pro" PDL team and will probably continue to do so this year. ^This is one thing that Vancouver was negotiating with MLS and probably won the right to have a pro academy, with the new NCAA regulations, the pros can play alongside amateurs without negating the NCAA eligibilty of the amateurs. Therefore they hold transfer rights to any of these players who are not out of contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamo Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Were required to sign a pro contract with the club, Richard. Now that you have joined MLS that will no longer be the case. MLS Academy players are signed to amateur contracts, they can leave at any time with the club receiving minimal compensation.No disrespect, but you are guessing at this or using old information from MLS years gone by. The Caps continue to play in the USL and those are FIFA contracts. That is why Arnoux is stuck right now. Kottonmouthed is right that the club would not stand in the way of his development if Arnoux found another team but that has more to do with team reputation - being a place guys like Bryce Alderson want to come to -than business, if they could find someone willing to pay a transfer fee today I am sure he would be gone. The intention is that the USL club will develop players such as Adam Straith and Julien Latandrese who will get sold to overseas teams as a revenue source, like many world clubs, this is a big part of their desire to be a top 25 team in the world. This protects their full share of the transfer fee as MLS has no part in the contract - the only concession that was made is that the VWFC not the MLS Whitecaps won't be able to sign "draft age/eligible" players to USL contracts - so they will need to sign younger players or players not nominated- and as they were never on the MLS squad, any returning player will still have to go through the MLS meaning the Caps will have no hold on players who leave the program at 19 to go over seas and then come back at 31 when they are no longer wanted. This is the MLS of course and things are always changing and being made up as they go along and we know the MLS was not happy with some of the loopholes the Caps used to build there team for 2011 - which is why the whole Arnoux fiasco evolved, so who knows what the repercussions will be and what concessions the Caps will have to make in the future, but as of right now, players like Maloud Akloul and Davide Chuimiento are signed to FIFA contracts with the club regardless of whether they have MLS contracts and if those two players are not in the MLS plans the Caps have every right to sell those contracts to anyone willing to pay and the MLS can do nothing about that at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Are you not also guessing or using old information from days gone by, Slamo? It's entirely plausible that one of the conditions for Vancouver to join MLS would be for them to give up their ability to side-step MLS academy rules in the manner which are describing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Guys, MLS never let anyone else skirt the rules so why should they do so now? If MLS allows Vancouver to stack it's PDL squad with pro contracts then why wouldn't other teams follow suit? Clubs with the resources to do so could stockpile prospects in their PDL squad and use as an extension of the Development roster. They would gain an unfair advantage over other clubs that may not have the disposable income to spend on additional prospects. And, there's no way they let them run a player trading business without getting a cut of the pie. ie. a player like Straith doesn't get sold from an MLS club-owned PDL team without the league getting it's cut - no way. I may not know for a fact that the league would not allow this, but it seems to be common sense that this is not their M.O - they like to control things and they would address this loophole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 That is exactly why I made reference to my not being sure which Whitecaps corporate entity signs the pro contracts with their non-MLS Residency players. You can be sure the club has figured all this out. There is the Whitecaps MLS corporate entity then there is the Whitecaps non-MLS USL/NASL entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamo Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Are you not also guessing or using old information from days gone by, Slamo? It's entirely plausible that one of the conditions for Vancouver to join MLS would be for them to give up their ability to side-step MLS academy rules in the manner which are describing. There is lots of speculation and I am sure negotiations will continue. The Caps have stated they have no intention of changing the club structure and brag about it on their website. The club has set a goal to be a top 20 team in the world in 5 years. Currently there are several players under contract who are not even in camp for the MLS team. They are essentially two different entities. I would guess that once some of these contracts expire there will be rules in place, but I wouldn't be surprised if those rules much more favour club football as opposed to NA style sport franchise rules. The drafting of Salgado is just another indication of how the club views itself as superior to other MLS teams. Only time will tell if they are correct in their self assessment, but they certainly aren't having trouble finding people to pour money into their vision and the fact that the first MLS stadium on FIFA ea is BC Place shows they are serious about international branding. Everything to do with the future has an element of guessing, but this is a club that has decided it is going to do things differently, so basing guesses on they can't do what hasn't been done is not a safe bet. We'll see I guess. But clearly they are doing things their own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 That is exactly why I made reference to my not being sure which Whitecaps corporate entity signs the pro contracts with their non-MLS Residency players. You can be sure the club has figured all this out. There is the Whitecaps MLS corporate entity then there is the Whitecaps non-MLS USL/NASL entity. Fair enough Richard. So if there is 2 distinct entities then the non-MLS club will be allowed to sign professional contracts and if the MLS club wants to acquire any of these players (non-HomeGrowns) to sign to MLS contracts they will have to lay discovery claims on those players as if they were playing outside of the organization. The MLS club would be allowed to "loan" Residency grads to the PDL squad and as long as they're not signed to pro contracts by the PDL club the MLS 'Caps could recall them and sign them to MLS contracts. The only problem again is if a club outside MLS wants to sign these players they can do so without paying any more than the development costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamo Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Fair enough Richard. So if there is 2 distinct entities then the non-MLS club will be allowed to sign professional contracts and if the MLS club wants to acquire any of these players (non-HomeGrowns) to sign to MLS contracts they will have to lay discovery claims on those players as if they were playing outside of the organization. The MLS club would be allowed to "loan" Residency grads to the PDL squad and as long as they're not signed to pro contracts by the PDL club the MLS 'Caps could recall them and sign them to MLS contracts. The only problem again is if a club outside MLS wants to sign these players they can do so without paying any more than the development costs.Thanks jpg. This is the most confusing part. Because of the MLS contracts how do the Cap contracts (non-mls) fit into the MLS squad. I wasn't sure if players would be able to play for the residency and the PDL, so from what you are saying I gather as long as they do not have (non-MLS) contracts they would be allowed to play for both, but someone like Bedri Gashi would only be allowed to play for the PDL team if he doesn't earn an MLS contract. That makes sense - and the discovery rule would void any chance of the club moving players from the PDL to MLS unless they are given homegrown status - also makes sense, also explains the connections to Grootscholten (sp?) as it would seem any "selling" of players will have to be outside of the MLS. This would bode well for Russel Tiebert earning an MLS deal as then I assume he would be able to play with both the PDL team "on loan" and the Residency team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Great. I'm glad we all agree. Now let's announce some signings already! This is reminiscent of the 2007 TFC preseason. We all know how well that worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKottonmouthed1555362307 Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 Great. I'm glad we all agree. Now let's announce some signings already! This is reminiscent of the 2007 TFC preseason. We all know how well that worked out. Not really at all, It's not like there isn't enough players in camp. TFC was in much more of the unkown at this point. There is a reason we have a camp right now, and are not handing out contracts to nay of them yet. We want to keep the competition up and all 19 of these guys without contracts pushing hard and tryign to show us they deserve one more than the guy beside them. I have a feeling we got our DP's if they are looking at any already lined up, but rather not announce it before camp, since it could damper some spirits in Camp knowing there one less spot for them. I think after each friendly we will see 1-3 players signed and 1-3 players cut. Some MLS tidbits: Jeff Cunningham signs with The Crew, Houston Dynamo moved to Eastern conference to even out the west and east to 9 teams a piece with Vancouver and Portland added to the west, and Eddy Sidra on trial at TFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKottonmouthed1555362307 Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 Ethan Gage officailly not a Whitecap, on his way to Reading FC http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?1100-Ethan-Gage-Reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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