Website update

[El Hombre]

Because we are not owned by a corporation.

We are an independent supporters group not a bunch of corporate toadies.

Really? So there's no middle ground in that. I read a number of blogs that are in The Score's "Sports Federation". Not one of them seems to put forward any agenda on behalf of the Score that I can see. Hell, there's even an Ottawa Senators blog that I read daily in it and the Score's based in Toronto. Not once have I got the impression that he's compromised his ideals to be part of the federation.

As far as I can see, the only tradeoff for being in the Score's loop is that our advertising is now for the Score. How is that worse than the Google ads that we had before? I don't see any difference other than the fact that the maintenance of the Voyageurs server now costs you a lot less.

So, is it just indie cred that you're looking for? Cause the group won't get very far with that. Fugazi was a great band but their music didn't make it out to nearly enough ears because they clung to their indie ideals. This doesn't mean that they needed to sell out to Sony and be the next Nickelback, but they could've taken small steps to gain access to wider audience and further their message. They decided to go another route and an opportunity was missed.

The Voyageurs have operated more or less the same way for 10 to 15 years. Unfortunately, that can take you only so far in my mind. One day it would be nice to have a game in Toronto where U-Sector has their section, Red Patch has their section and the Voyageurs have enough members ready to go that we get our own section. There's a lot of stuff that would have to happen between now and then for that dream to come true, but pining for the status quo is not one of them.

[El Hombre]

Mr Hombre: The Voyageurs is a group of intelligent and soccer knowledgeable people, not a group of "goofballs"!

Please don't misconstrue what I said as an insult. I hold this group in the highest esteem. I use the term "goofball" because that's the best I can come up with when explaining it to others. With everything one knows about soccer, the CSA and the Canadian program and all the heartbreak that goes along with following this team and its players (and ex-players), I can only accurately describe those that come back and watch game in and game out on a choppy Estonian feed as "goofballs" and I proudly count myself in their number.

It was mostly tongue in cheek too.

[Guest Ed]

Really? So there's no middle ground in that. I read a number of blogs that are in The Score's "Sports Federation". Not one of them seems to put forward any agenda on behalf of the Score that I can see. Hell, there's even an Ottawa Senators blog that I read daily in it and the Score's based in Toronto. Not once have I got the impression that he's compromised his ideals to be part of the federation.

....

So, is it just indie cred that you're looking for? Cause the group won't get very far with that. Fugazi was a great band but their music didn't make it out to nearly enough ears because they clung to their indie ideals. This doesn't mean that they needed to sell out to Sony and be the next Nickelback, but they could've taken small steps to gain access to wider audience and further their message. They decided to go another route and an opportunity was missed.

The Voyageurs have operated more or less the same way for 10 to 15 years. Unfortunately, that can take you only so far in my mind. One day it would be nice to have a game in Toronto where U-Sector has their section, Red Patch has their section and the Voyageurs have enough members ready to go that we get our own section. There's a lot of stuff that would have to happen between now and then for that dream to come true, but pining for the status quo is not one of them.

Nicely put.

[ted]

Really? So there's no middle ground in that.

Nope. Canada is an independent nation, and the Voyageurs are an independent supporters group.

That does not mean we should not accept advertising and partnerships.

So, is it just indie cred that you're looking for?

WTF?!? So if I oppose the annexation of Canada by the United States I am just looking to be a hipster? If I refuse to sell our collective soul to TheScore.Com I have no motivation beyond trendy coolness? Now you are getting personally insulting.

One day it would be nice to have a game in Toronto where U-Sector has their section, Red Patch has their section and the Voyageurs have enough members ready to go that we get our own section.

WTF kind of warped vision is that?!? Watching the Highlanders I am a Lake Side Buoy in Black and Gold. Watching the National Team I am a Voyageur in Red and White. I thought we hashed this out in the thread about Montreal.

I agree we need to move forward but the best way to do that would be to allow member associations so that the local groups are all part of a Voyageurs federation. I have always found the concept of just being a Voyageur a little strange.

[RS]

WTF?!? So if I oppose the annexation of Canada by the United States I am just looking to be a hipster?

Really valid comparison there... :/

WTF kind of warped vision is that?!? Watching the Highlanders I am a Lake Side Buoy in Black and Gold. Watching the National Team I am a Voyageur in Red and White. I thought we hashed this out in the thread about Montreal.

When supporting TFC, I'm U-Sector. When supporting Canada (especially in Toronto), I'm U-Sector and a Voyageur.

Whatever was "hashed out" in that thread wasn't really definitive at all, especially since we all saw a splinter group separate from the V's in that game at Montreal.

[Tuscan]

...Fugazi was a great band but their music didn't make it out to nearly enough ears because they clung to their indie ideals. This doesn't mean that they needed to sell out to Sony and be the next Nickelback, but they could've taken small steps to gain access to wider audience and further their message. They decided to go another route and an opportunity was missed.

That and Ian MacKaye is a bit of a weirdo. Bring back Minor Threat!

[ted]

Really valid comparison there... :/

I'm sorry if my patriotism offends you. I love my country and the national team to me represents Canada. I see them as very much comparable since they are intertwined for me.

When supporting TFC, I'm U-Sector. When supporting Canada (especially in Toronto), I'm U-Sector and a Voyageur.

Exactly! What I am trying to say is that they should not be separated. We are all Voyageurs so artificial divisions like having a separate section for Voyageurs is ridiculous.

Sorry to be confusing about the colours but what I was trying to get at was we should not be wearing club gear at national team games. That was, I thought, what was "hashed out" in the thread about Montreal. That said, I'm not gonna get worked up about wearing TFC gear because at least it is the right colours. What is important is wearing red and white.

[Viruk42]

Nope. Canada is an independent nation, and the Voyageurs are an independent supporters group.

That does not mean we should not accept advertising and partnerships.

Isn't that what this is? I'll be honest, I usually forget to check the V's forums, because there's too much on it and not enough time in the day. Since the forums were linked with CSN (which had a couple blogs I checked daily), I have been looking at the forums more - as in, several times each day.

And you know what? I never once noticed the Score stuff. I didn't notice the ads, I didn't notice the links at the top, nothing. Only when I started reading this thread did I realise that stuff was there. While I am only one person, and thus a terrible sample size, I imagine that a large number of people will check the forum and not notice the Score stuff. The ads/banners/whatever are small (at least when signed in), and they blend in well.

Besides, the Score has the best footy coverage in the country, why wouldn't you want to be associated with them?

WTF?!? So if I oppose the annexation of Canada by the United States I am just looking to be a hipster? If I refuse to sell our collective soul to TheScore.Com I have no motivation beyond trendy coolness? Now you are getting personally insulting.

I think that's a bit of an exageration, because the Voyageurs don't seem to be getting annexed, or even merged. Just linked, like a co-operative. Sort of like, I dunno....being in NAFTA?

[gator]

Nice Fugazi analogy El Hombre! I think the new look website is fine personally, I don't really notice much difference, I usually link directly to this forum!

[Havoc88]

Nice Fugazi analogy El Hombre! I think the new look website is fine personally, I don't really notice much difference, I usually link directly to this forum!

wtf?! All the minor threat fans raise your hand!

[Unnamed Trialist]

Note to El Hombre: I am happy to call myself a goofball too, our dedication is downright goofy.

Fanaticism like mine and many others' here is odd, we are oddballs, sorry to say.

Case in point: how many of your closest friends and relatives, your wives, have no idea how many hours you spend here a week, how many posts you have made on this site? Mine do not, they just have an inkling. That is enough for them to think I am pretty fanatical.

But I am not telling. I am also proud to have lied to my loved ones just to get out to see a football match. I do it a few times a year at least, and as many of us know, it is better to just say you went for a long walk or had work at the office on a weekend than tell your wife you spent the afternoon at a CSL game, watching an online feed at a weird hour, or--in my case--going to see 5th tier semi-pro in Spain.

[gator]

wtf?! All the minor threat fans raise your hand!

C:\Documents and Settings\cbrown\Desktop\Raised Hand.png

[Lord Bob]

We don't need to convince the people that have 5,000 posts on this board that the Voyageurs aren't owned by the Score just because we carry their advertising and they give us money in an ambiguous relationship that is nowhere explained on either the Score's website or anywhere else. We need to convince the people who are just showing up.

What's the Score's relationship to this site? What sort of control do they exercise? I don't know! But we're beholden to them for something or else we wouldn't have that banner at the top.

All I do know that I didn't sign up for The Voyageurs® Sponsored by the Score. It's not about "indie cred". It's about not putting our national supporters group in a position where it's under the thumb, or can be perceived to be under the thumb, of major media organizations. The Score is no small part of the reason that the Canadian national teams are so marginalized in this country and I don't want to crawl into bed with them. I don't want anyone to say "oh, the Voyageurs, that's one of those Score sites, right?" I don't want even the possibility of any of that.

[Keegan]

We don't need to convince the people that have 5,000 posts on this board that the Voyageurs aren't owned by the Score just because we carry their advertising and they give us money in an ambiguous relationship that is nowhere explained on either the Score's website or anywhere else. We need to convince the people who are just showing up.

What's the Score's relationship to this site? What sort of control do they exercise? I don't know! But we're beholden to them for something or else we wouldn't have that banner at the top.

All I do know that I didn't sign up for The Voyageurs® Sponsored by the Score. It's not about "indie cred". It's about not putting our national supporters group in a position where it's under the thumb, or can be perceived to be under the thumb, of major media organizations. The Score is no small part of the reason that the Canadian national teams are so marginalized in this country and I don't want to crawl into bed with them. I don't want anyone to say "oh, the Voyageurs, that's one of those Score sites, right?" I don't want even the possibility of any of that.

Its not often someone serves up a post so compelling, powerful and rich... seriously though I agree

[Tuscan]

I thought we were simply part of The Score Federation in order to have the site linked and to get better advertising rates than what we were getting before? Isn't The Score Federation simply a way to group together sites related to sports under one easy to navigate collective? Hell, if it's taking the financial burden off of those hosting, so be it.

[Admin]

We don't need to convince the people that have 5,000 posts on this board that the Voyageurs aren't owned by the Score just because we carry their advertising and they give us money in an ambiguous relationship that is nowhere explained on either the Score's website or anywhere else. We need to convince the people who are just showing up.

What's the Score's relationship to this site? What sort of control do they exercise? I don't know! But we're beholden to them for something or else we wouldn't have that banner at the top.

All I do know that I didn't sign up for The Voyageurs® Sponsored by the Score. It's not about "indie cred". It's about not putting our national supporters group in a position where it's under the thumb, or can be perceived to be under the thumb, of major media organizations. The Score is no small part of the reason that the Canadian national teams are so marginalized in this country and I don't want to crawl into bed with them. I don't want anyone to say "oh, the Voyageurs, that's one of those Score sites, right?" I don't want even the possibility of any of that.

Will add in an about Voyageurs page shortly, and put in a paragraph on the nature of the Score deal which is just a network of sports sites with targeted advertising.

Oddly enough, if we reached the level of general public knowledge where people knew our name, even it if was misconstrued as part of the score it would be easily corrected and a profound success. That kind of penetration in the minds of the general public sporting fans would be unthinkable without a Moslon type advertising budget.

I am with you on the media being one of the games biggest problems. We just haven't sold anything, given anything up or have a single restriction placed upon us other than if you want access to the advertising network, you put the links to the other sites in the network at the top in header.

That's it.

[Richard]

That damned animated ad is showing up at the top right of every thread I look at again! Very annoying.

[The Ref]

That damned animated ad is showing up at the top right of every thread I look at again! Very annoying.

I am glad somebody else agrees with me!

[Joe MacCarthy]

That damned animated ad is showing up at the top right of every thread I look at again! Very annoying.

Ever heard of AdBlock or Firefox? If you're using M$ products you deserve every ad you get.

[Joe MacCarthy]

And by saying the above I might be depriving this site of some ad revenue income. My apologies.

[The Ref]

Ever heard of AdBlock or Firefox? If you're using M$ products you deserve every ad you get.

I use Firefox and still get the ads.

[Richard]

It is counterproductive for any website to irritate it's users as it will merely chase them away or reduce the frequency of visits at best thus reducing the number of times ads can be served and thus ad revenue. The vast majority of web users are relativel non-technical and blissfully unaware of adblockers. Despite the Microsoft haters, IE remains the most commonly used browser by a long way.

[Joe MacCarthy]

The Ref, I asked if you were using AdBlock in the open source thread. Use FF with AdBlock (very easy to do) and we won't have to listen to you guys complain about ads anymore.

[Razcle]

SoccerOnly - I have pretty much been reading this since the forum changed and it sounds like most are not against the structure you put in place as it does give the front page a very fresh look with many more modern features that progressive sites already have on board. I'm sure you have put a lot of time and energy into this and I do believe this synergy can help grow the group and the awareness of of Canadian soccer in general.

There have been some obvious complaints mostly by long time V's who have also put some good thought and energy into their words and I think once everything is ironed out we should write a letter to all active V's touching quickly on the new site, the benefits and assurances that the issues raised in this thread are more about misinformation than actually being issues.

Great leaders aim to satisfy 60-80% of their population, and you will almost never hit 100%. All you can do is tweak to try and get a few of the other 20-40 to at least be understanding of your decision.

Great work thus far in all of your efforts.

[TFCRegina]

I use Firefox and still get the ads.

Firefox with Adblock. It's really simple.

Alternatively Google Chrome with Adblock. You'll be ad free.