CSA says no to sanctioning more D2 and PDL teams in US

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

The Canadian Soccer Association has put a moratorium on the sanctioning of new D2 and PDL teams effective immediately...

More here:

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?528-CSA-puts-brakes-on-future-D2-sanctioning-in-US-leagues#new_comment

[argh1]

A great day in history.

The day will always be remembered as the Day CSA GREW SOME BALLS

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Fortunately the moratorium only appears to be for a year so presumably once the cold hard reality that there is zero chance of a viable D2 level Canadian league emerging becomes clear this will prove to be a temporary diversion. If not this could be disastrous to the future of the sport in Canada.

[Macksam]

Fortunately the moratorium only appears to be for a year so presumably once the cold hard reality that there is zero chance of a viable Canadian league emerging becomes clear this will prove to be a temporary diversion. If not this could be disastrous to the future of the sport in Canada.

Now let's not jump to conclusions. I am intrigued and would love to know more about this. However, wouldn't it be better to let teams play in the NASL while they plan whatever it is they are planning? I mean banning teams from joining the NASL doesn't accomplish anything in the mean time.

[foreverthursday]

Now let's not jump to conclusions. I am intrigued and would love to know more about this. However, wouldn't it be better to let teams play in the NASL while they plan whatever it is they are planning? I mean banning teams from joining the NASL doesn't accomplish anything in the mean time.

You are %100 correct.

I don't doubt that all of us want to see a good Canadian league someday, but that isn't a reality for a while yet.

[AvroArrow]

If you wanted a minimum 8 team league and for it to be successful, you'd have to have teams in Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver. That would mean either the MLS (future and current) teams would have to drop down a league, or you'd have to have each city support 2 soccer teams, which is highly unlikely. Without these 3 cities, I doubt you'll get a TV contract, which would be a necessity for exposure and profitability. Without that, you have a fringe league.

[Lord Bob]

Bravo, CSA. About time we showed some ambition instead of clinging, limpet-like, to an American pyramid that sees us only as a source of ready cash and has every incentive in the world to see us fail on the pitch.

[jedinathan]

I disagree with the MLS teams having to drop down. I can't speak for Vancouver, but I imagine that the market in Quebec would be enough with a team in Quebec City, and there are enough smaller areas around Toronto to support a solid D2 team.

Also, Vancouver and Montreal have surrived for years without a major TV deal in Canada, so I don't believe that would be the breaking point. It just would need some serious grassroots support from the different provinces. I think that this is the major reason why this is won't work right now... There just isn't enough support to handle a D2 league accross Canada. I think its coming sooner than people think though. It brings up the old debate about the MLS reserves being allowed to play in D2. With that, then there are already 4 teams in the league, plus Ottawa, Hamilton, Victoria and somewhere in the middle. Enough for the league of 8.

[Blue and White Army]

USA's pyramid is broken, anyway. The top two D2 teams (regular season) are both moving down to D3 next year.

[tmcmurph]

Dumb. So any owner that is willing to put money up and field a team in NASL can't do it? WTF? This is progress for the Canadian game? This is a giant step backwards. This is not the CSA showing guts or brains. So what is the CSA's plan? Do they have a Canadian D2 level league in the plan? Do they have a plan AT ALL?

And Dumber. No new PDL? This is a development league for god's sake! It is to provide university level athletes summer training games in a competitive environment. Why on god's green earth would you not want more of that?

So 2 things that cost the CSA nothing and help Canadian soccer (and USA soccer as well) are now frozen. Far from helping this is hurting the Canadian soccer teams and players. How about quotas of Canadians on the teams? Oh no that would step on the USSF toes and we can't do that so we'll just step on the people that we can and not let them start teams and develop players.

Progress? The CSA getting balls? I don't think so. Dumb and Dumber more like it.

" One insider welcomed the change. It’s time to get serious,” he said. “If we keep sanctioning teams down there we will never grow anything of our own.”

> Yes one insider who has ZERO money of his invested. Where is the plan, the financial work, the team owners?

"However, in the past Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi has said that he doesn’t believe that a Canadian D2 league is viable."

> So there goes one vote WITH the $$

" Investors in Ottawa also told It’s Called Football earlier this year that they did not think that a Canadian D2 league would work. "

> There goes 2 more votes with the $$

So they obviously have not talked to the owners about their Canadian D2 plan (if they have one).

Owners with $$ willing to invest in soccer in Canadian clubs = 3 negative votes

CSA with "sanctioning power" but no money to fund Canadian clubs = 1 positive vote

Oh yea this will fly ...

[jedinathan]

This is not the CSA showing guts or brains. ...

I think its the CSA trying to show guts. And ya, its gonna backfire big time.

[tmcmurph]

Also, Vancouver and Montreal have surrived for years without a major TV deal in Canada, so I don't believe that would be the breaking point. It just would need some serious grassroots support from the different provinces..

No Vancouver and Montreal survived for years WITH major financial backers who had a PLAN. They were willing to field a quality team at a loss for years and their dedication and support are what made the difference! Find another 8 Kerfoot & Saputo and then announce a plan and suspend new sanctioning. To do it cart before horse is stupid. Not going to fly. Wish I was wrong but I'm not. Sorry we've been down this path before way too many times.

[jedinathan]

Fair enough. I'm starting to see the beginning of that in Edmonton (big backers willing to take a loss I mean).

[alberta white]

Fair enough. I'm starting to see the beginning of that in Edmonton (big backers willing to take a loss I mean).

Met some of the younger FO a while back and I have to agree.

What I dont understand is this D2 reference. How does the CSA sanction a Second Division if they do not a Have a First Division to start with?

Surley they are not looking for the provincial associations to sanction teams to represent at this 'D2' level.

ASA seems more hell bent on spending its money on sueing the AR*E of itself than devloping the game anyway.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Unfortunately they appear to be aiming to torpedo Edmonton as well but are doing it very sneakily. The money behind the Minnesota team in the NASL sanctioning bid apparently is coming from an Ottawa group with the clear intent being to move operations to Ottawa once Montreal leaves for MLS in 2012 (no doubt with the hope being that new investors can be found for Minnesota in the mean time).

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?530-The-Ottawa-Minnesota-Connection

If they pull out because of the CSA's moratorium then the NASL only has seven teams and no American team based in a second US timezone so the D2 sanctioning bid will probably fail this weekend at the USSF meetings. That could easily wind up being the end of the road for FC Edmonton as well. Absolutely sickening that the CSA would stoop to this sort of stuff but no surprise given what's happening in Alberta right now and with the wider issue of reform of the CSA. The level of influence and control personally wielded is clearly much more important to the soccer bureacrat types who have managed to clamber their way up the greasy pole from the provincial associations than having a serious level of investment in pro soccer take place in cities like Edmonton, Hamilton and Ottawa and the last thing they want is for a more professionally run national association to ever emerge.

[Grizzly]

The CSA should be happy about any Canadian professional team that has solid financial backing, is building a fan base and employing Canadian players regardless of what league they are playing in. When we have 8 or more solid professional teams averaging no less than 5000 fans per match then we can start talking about Canadian leagues. If they want to show some balls they should do it on the Canadian quota/equal treatment throughout the league for Canadian players issue.

[argh1]

The CSA should be happy about any Canadian professional team that has solid financial backing, is building a fan base and employing Canadian players regardless of what league they are playing in. When we have 8 or more solid professional teams averaging no less than 5000 fans per match then we can start talking about Canadian leagues. If they want to show some balls they should do it on the Canadian quota/equal treatment throughout the league for Canadian players issue.

Maybe the CSA is saying that they won't sanction any more teams without a Canadian quota/equal treatment in place.

No point in sanctioning teams if Canadians are not playing.

I think if USA Soccer simply stated that all North American players are domestic this would end. Except for Mexico...........

If there's to be teams in 2 countries in leagues than all players are domestic, right.

[Alex D]

Guys, This has no effect on Ottawa or Hamilton at the moment. Like someone else mentioned, this is a 1 year moratorium. Neither of those cities would be able to join the NASL in that time anyway.

The CSA is trying to build a D2 league and they've given themselves a year to do it. If it does not pan out then it's back to the NASL, but if it does we will finally have our own league.

I am curious about this new Winnipeg PDL team that has been posted on these boards. I've know about this decision for a few months now and I've wanted to ask him if he had received sanctioning yet. I don't know if he got in before the buzzer, got a waiver due to there being no other leagues around there, or he just assumed it would be sanctioned no problem and is now in a sticky situation.

*Edit- apparently Winnipeg got in before the buzzer

[ray]

Interesting stuff. If the CSA are trying to make a Canadian D2 set-up, I hope they have really thought this through and have serious investors willing to give this a go. Otherwise, this moratorium looks very clumsy that makes the CSA look incapable, inept and sets back the vision of a Canadian league. It is hard to see how they can create enough viable franchises for even a 6-team league.

To me the best course of action would be to support efforts to bring more Canadian teams into the NASL until there are enough to create a separate Canadian division. Then move toward a Canadian league.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

" One insider welcomed the change. It’s time to get serious,” he said. “If we keep sanctioning teams down there we will never grow anything of our own.”

> Yes one insider who has ZERO money of his invested. Where is the plan, the financial work, the team owners?

You could not be further from the truth...

[jpg75]

This strikes me as a bargaining chip for the CSA in it's dealings with the USSF. If the CSA pulls D2 sanctioning from Montreal and Edmonton for the 2011 season that means the USSF doesn't have the 8 teams it needs for a D2 league. So, what are they gonna do about it? Are they going to let 6 teams fold, or have to drop down to D3? Or are they going to reinstate the Canadian player quota in MLS to appease the CSA who will in turn re-sanction the clubs? This might be an intricate game of chicken being carried out by some sly, weasely characters...

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The Canadian player regulation was something that was done at the behest of TFC, the Whitecaps and the Impact rather than by the USSF so I don't think that theory works. Think the dynamic driving this is the same one that led to the whole CUSL saga unfolding even after the KPMG report had explained to the CSA that a national league couldn't work. The group of bumbling amateurs from the various provincial associations that control the CSA are desperate for a national league because it enhances their level of control over the sport and, therefore, would provide them with further opportunities to place their snouts at the trough.

The move of the Whitecaps and the Impact to MLS provides a narrow window of opportunity for the CSA types to kill off Canadian involvement at the D2 and D3 portions of the USSF league pyramid once and for all and bring more of pro soccer back under their control again. If FC Edmonton and the Ottawa group get in and things go well the precedent is set that the NASL is the way to go at that level and the chance of a D2 level Canadian league emerging any time soon is gone.

[Cheeta]

Hmmm. Curious. Not really sure how to read this.

Odviously something is going on off-stage which the BoD is reacting to because that's by in large what the CSA does, react not initiate and I think that something would have to be more than just the Minnesota scheme described above. Hard to imagine this initiative is just some of the usual hollow CSA mouthing-off for the purpose of domestic political consumption. Okay, maybe not that hard but I still think the point stands.

You know, I don't really think we're that far from a national league as some here believe. Three MLS reserve teams (if that can be encouraged to happen) plus Edmonton & the Ottawa/Hamilton pretenders equals 5. To my eye that looks like a pretty good base of stable, solidly financed clubs to build a modest domestic league around.

Just saying. May be more to this move by the CSA than meets the eye. Or not. Either way not a lot to get excited about yet.

Now if the CSA put out a press release announcing publicly what they've been saying privately to their MLS compatriots about the domestic quota rumours, that is to say the CSA opposes any such move and if necessary will oppose any such move by that league through Canadian courts THEN I'll be impressed.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Why would they need to go the courts? In another thread Bill Spiers has already pointed to the rule they can use to set the domestic content requirements for any pro team based in Canada.

http://www.cansoc.org/showthread.php?40862-CSA-vice-president-criticizes-MLS-over-new-domestic-content-regulations&p=372688&viewfull=1#post372688

[paul-collins]

Unfortunately they appear to be aiming to torpedo Edmonton as well but are doing it very sneakily. The money behind the Minnesota team in the NASL sanctioning bid apparently is coming from an Ottawa group with the clear intent being to move operations to Ottawa once Montreal leaves for MLS in 2012 (no doubt with the hope being that new investors can be found for Minnesota in the mean time).

If they pull out because of the CSA's moratorium then the NASL only has seven teams and no American team based in a second US timezone so the D2 sanctioning bid will probably fail this weekend at the USSF meetings. That could easily wind up being the end of the road for FC Edmonton as well. Absolutely sickening that the CSA would stoop to this sort of stuff but no surprise given what's happening in Alberta right now and with the wider issue of reform of the CSA. The level of influence and control personally wielded is clearly much more important to the soccer bureacrat types who have managed to clamber their way up the greasy pole from the provincial associations than having a serious level of investment in pro soccer take place in cities like Edmonton, Hamilton and Ottawa and the last thing they want is for a more professionally run national association to ever emerge.

Is there any connection between FCE and the reform movement within ASA's member associations?