update on giancarlo patino at barcelona

[Unnamed Trialist]

You know, I've been refraining from talking about this case because I knew the kid and it seems always a case of "sour grapes" when you say something negative about a kid "pursuing his dreams". I am however very happy to finally see someone in the know say something concrete to clarify people about this mess. Thanks, Trialist.

Gianni was in the same soccer academy as my boys here in Vancouver and although he could do some fancy tricks with the ball (in the sidelines, game time he was too weak) he was very far from being the best player in his age group. Add to that that he never played in a competitive (rep) team, always played his own age never up ( and that at house - recreational - league), you can imagine my surprise when the FCB thing hit the media. Since I've always followed Barcelona and its system, I told people he more likely than not merely got into FCBEscola (the for-money soccer school) but people always believe what they want, eh? Anywho, the skeptical in me kept tabs of FCB's Benjamin/Alevin roster over the years and I was not surprised to never see his name pop up.

Con job, it always seemed to me, or at least a huge misrepresentation of what was happening by the family to get others to help finance their soccer dream.

I have never said it, because I do not know exactly what the Patino family represented officially, but it does seem to me to have been a con job as well.

As mentioned, he never played for the FCB academy. That is, for the academy where they pick kids and bring them up and work them into a professional structure if they are good enough. Where Messi went from Rosario, or Iniesta from Albacete. It starts at what they call "Benjamin", ages 8-to turning 10, four teams of 12/13 kids playing 7 a side, goes to "Alevin", ages 10 to turning 12, again four teams of 12-13 players, playing 7 a side, and on up, next level they have two teams only of 20 odd kids each playing 11 a side. So it is very select, and no, they do not lose, they are the best in the region of Catalunya along with Espanyol and always have their teams in the highest level possible, in a promotion-relegation tiered competitive system. They are tops, and at all age groups rival the best in the world.

That was not what Gianni did. His family solicited money under the pretext of being admitted to the FCB academy, and then paid to go to the school, which is a pay as you go soccer school, nothing more. It is not a bad deal as it is still maybe half of what kids playing High Performance in BC will be paying (it costs I think something like 1200 euros a year, but there are additions to that). And you do have to show a minimum level to get in. It is seriously limited as they are not federated, meaning they do not play in a legitimate competitive league, everything they play is internal, friendlies, or when FCB gets invited to a lesser tournament, they ask these kids to go in representation, with the parents paying the way, so that is significant in terms of cost. So they have to show well, but they are just solid mid-level players. I recently consulted this with people that know, as I will now explain, and I was told that maybe 1 in a few hundred of the kids in the school will be asked to move up to the official academy, maybe one a year from the entire school.

The school only lasts until Alevin, there is no school after u-12, so what do the kids do?

My son's current club, his new club for this upcoming season, is Catalonia, which is also an official supporter club of FCB (there are maybe 8 football academies in the region that are also supporter clubs of FCB). So when the Barcelona School ends they have a deal where the kids moving up to play essentially u-14 can enter into Catalonia as an option, and anywhere from 2 or 3 to a dozen do. They are all the same age, first year u/14s, they are put into the B or C or D team according to level, though they often try to keep them together. The A team is second year and in a higher division, one below where the FCB academy teams play.

Well this June my son tried out and was asked to join (literally they called and said "we want to sign him", which is officially what they do) the B team, and they told me it had openings because few players came from the FCB School to Catalonia, they dispersed. This is what we wanted, a solid club with a team in a higher division and with the goal of promoting.

But how many clubs would be considered to be of a higher level before getting to the level of the FCB category, just in the region alone? Maybe about 20, my son will be playing in the middle of the middle, good level, in Canadian terms he could play HP in BC, but in Spain he is i the middle of organized soccer.

And in effect, if you have followed me, exactly the same level as a player like Gianni Patino in terms of where he could realistically play. IN the exact same club and the same team Gianni could have opted for if he'd stayed in Barcelona.

[villus]

A little off topic but why don't we initiate a program in Canada with kids playing 7 a side up to a certain age group? It seems that it would be much better for developing as a soccer player, having much more of the ball and each player being much more involved in any game. Food for thought but radical changes like this are what will matter in the long run for getting Canada to the next level, we have to start with technical development early, we should go after or send someone to the Barca or Barca style academy to learn how to develop technically gifted players.

[ThiKu]

Tuilio, what Vancouver league has Rep/Select at ages 9 and lower? Didn't Gianni move to Barca when he was 9? Having been around BC soccer for quite some time I've never heard of a rep/select league for kids age 9 or younger. 10+ year olds, yep, for sure. And yes, some 9 year olds moving up above their age to play rep/select.

[jpg75]

A little off topic but why don't we initiate a program in Canada with kids playing 7 a side up to a certain age group? It seems that it would be much better for developing as a soccer player, having much more of the ball and each player being much more involved in any game. Food for thought but radical changes like this are what will matter in the long run for getting Canada to the next level, we have to start with technical development early, we should go after or send someone to the Barca or Barca style academy to learn how to develop technically gifted players.

8-10 year olds in Ontario play 7 v 7. At the younger age groups it's even less (4v4 and 5v5)....

[ag futbol]

A little off topic but why don't we initiate a program in Canada with kids playing 7 a side up to a certain age group? It seems that it would be much better for developing as a soccer player, having much more of the ball and each player being much more involved in any game. Food for thought but radical changes like this are what will matter in the long run for getting Canada to the next level, we have to start with technical development early, we should go after or send someone to the Barca or Barca style academy to learn how to develop technically gifted players.

Or even better why doesn't the CSA start building up the small-sided game at all levels? The reason why I say this isn't just for technical development, it would also keep more players playing the game.

Coaching U-10 boys this year, none of the kids have competitive aspirations but they love the sport. Issue is after this age level they jump from mini’s to full teams. That cuts down the number of teams and means traveling across the city to play rather than staying in their own area which many parents aren’t willing to do. Drop out rate is literally 50%. If the squad sizes were kept smaller, there would be enough individual teams in the area to keep a league going and the kids learn a lot out of it. And that wouldn't even effect the kids who want to travel and play full 11's.

Shame that nobody sees the opportunity.

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 a side is great, fun for the kids to play and fun to watch. A bit hard on keepers as they literally get shot at from the centre circle, but still a great game. The jury is still not out on it, there is debate here still, but it does seem folks agree that to U-12 it is the best way to go. Everyone gets touches, passing is important, tackling as a team is essential, defense can score, everyone has to defend. The field is short but wide, so you actually do encourage some horizontal play. They play it 4 quarters of 15 minutes and all players called up to the game have to get a quarter in by the third. You can take a player out at a break and put him back in in another. Only in the final quarter can you do changes in the middle of play, up to three. I love it.

I ended up coaching my kid´s team for 3 months and really enjoyed it, then I stopped when he got moved up to play u-14 11 a side--and boy is that a tough transition for the kids. You really need to have a strong club philosophy that thinks about coaching 7 a side and 11 a side as two separate entities, with different coaching philosophies.

Is there any way for someone to ask how much money the Patiño's collected in their pitch for Gianni to be able to be a Barça player? Was there any accountability or reports back?

[Unnamed Trialist]

A little off topic but why don't we initiate a program in Canada with kids playing 7 a side up to a certain age group? It seems that it would be much better for developing as a soccer player, having much more of the ball and each player being much more involved in any game. Food for thought but radical changes like this are what will matter in the long run for getting Canada to the next level, we have to start with technical development early, we should go after or send someone to the Barca or Barca style academy to learn how to develop technically gifted players.

Just want to say my kid has done soccer camps in Canada, and we have been pleasantly surprised by coaching, in fact better every year. This year his coach at UBC, I think a player for the Thunderbirds, was really good. So there is a lot of potential there, but what is missing is: sheer numbers and more passion to play; a competitive club structure that does indeed pick and choose better players to play at a higher level; a fully integrated system, where you can move from rep or High Performance into a pro structure. I say the only real problem is that we have 4 pro teams in the country, we have the thinnest imaginable pro structure, if that were stronger, we could develop just fine. After all, what sort of level do you think you need to coach 10 year olds? It is not difficult, but if you have no competition and do not get beat and have no incentive to improve, then you won't take that good basic knowledge anywhere, and the kids won understand what it means to really take that next step, as they do with hockey.

[ThiKu]

11v11 @ u11?

Have you ever asked your club why they don't follow the CSA or FIFA models for this age group??? Where are you from? It's my understanding 8v8 through the u12 season is standard practice. I'd not mind seeing 9v9 at u13 as well....

[villus]

TBH I have'nt been involved in youth soccer since I played starting in mini soccer in the late 80's and playing through the 90's. TBH in Windsor where I grew up the youth coaching was pretty bad. Glad to see positive changes being made.

[ag futbol]

11v11 @ u11?

Have you ever asked your club why they don't follow the CSA or FIFA models for this age group??? Where are you from? It's my understanding 8v8 through the u12 season is standard practice. I'd not mind seeing 9v9 at u13 as well....

My mistake here actually. It isn't 11 v. 11 but 8v8 as you mentioned. However, the way they chop up the teams between different level of competitiveness necessitates more travel, which is unfortunate.

[TulioMaravilha]

Tuilio, what Vancouver league has Rep/Select at ages 9 and lower? Didn't Gianni move to Barca when he was 9? Having been around BC soccer for quite some time I've never heard of a rep/select league for kids age 9 or younger. 10+ year olds, yep, for sure. And yes, some 9 year olds moving up above their age to play rep/select.

If I'm not mistaken he was 10, but you may be right, though, I'd have to check to be sure. In any case, as I said, my kid and Gianni had been in the same group at Roman Tulis for awhile and I knew G was playing house (at N Shore, if memory serves) while most of the other 98's in the group were playing (up) their first or even second year of Select. But it doesn't matter what level he was playing because I understand not everyone want to play up. My point was that the kid was not one that was that dominant at the time, either by athleticism or technique, that you'd expect a top team abroad to sign on the spot. Heck, I could pick then (or now) half a dozen BC boys of whom I'd have an easier time swallowing that story that was published in the Province. So, never really having fully believed in the media story, not ever seeing his name in FCB's rosters just left me wondering how much truth there was in it, that's all.

But then again, all this is really conjecture and the only thing I can talk about is my personal evaluation of the kid as a player and, even that, of a couple of years ago.

You know what, in the end of the day what we can know for sure is that the kid did go abroad to try for a soccer career and, my opinion of him as a player not withstanding, I do hope that, same as I would for any other kid out there, Gianni realizes his dream and makes it in soccer.

[ThiKu]

^He could have been 10. TBH, I am not following the kid but rather only reading these threads about him here.

Your statement about "more talented" (paraphrase) kids....holds true. At 10 years of age in BC there are LOADS of extremely talented kids. I can think of a few from the u11 tournaments (2000 age group) last year from each club we played - and we played all the "big" clubs (not to say there weren't some exceptional kids on smaller clubs).

Have to agree - I hope for Gianni he realizes his dream....and if so, I hope it includes Canada.

[Unnamed Trialist]

^He could have been 10. TBH, I am not following the kid but rather only reading these threads about him here.

Your statement about "more talented" (paraphrase) kids....holds true. At 10 years of age in BC there are LOADS of extremely talented kids. I can think of a few from the u11 tournaments (2000 age group) last year from each club we played - and we played all the "big" clubs (not to say there weren't some exceptional kids on smaller clubs).

Have to agree - I hope for Gianni he realizes his dream....and if so, I hope it includes Canada.

Gianni was born in 1998, he started in Barcelona in Sept 2008. I actually wrote an email to the family, offering support and someone to play with in my son, being the same age, and his mother Hannah Enkerlin wrote back saying they'd be in touch, in August 2008. They never got back to me but that was unimportant.

[Unnamed Trialist]

As I posted a few months back, my son plays on a team that accepts many players from the FCB School. From the same place that Gianni was playing for a couple of years, up until age 12.

Just a few days ago, though, a parent said to me "Hey, we had a kid from Vancouver at the School for two years". As his kid is a 2nd year u-14 on my kid's team (mine is still 12), he had played with Gianni at the school. His kid moved on to Catalonia, our club, Gianni left as we have seen.

I asked him about the set up. First and most important, Gianni, according to this dad (whose kid is technically sharp, one of the better players on the team, but does competitive golf and misses games, too bad), was an average player at the school. Good, competent, not a stand-out on the field, just another player amongst solid mid-level players. He honestly could not say that the kid was particularly notable at anything, with one exception: juggling. He is a good juggler, and that is the only place he is better than most mid-level players here (we are talking about literally a couple hundred kids of that level in the metropolitan area alone).

He also told me about Gianni's dad. They trained twice a week at FCB Schoolo, but his father took him to technical training (they do many private special skills camps here, my kid is doing one over Xmas), and on Friday he trained again at another private academy started by ex-Barça players, the TARR (TARR is now a Catalonia affiliate, it so happens). So his dad was a bit obsessed about him getting somewhere as a footballer, he was bent on having him take the next step and get into the Barcelona academy. His mom was more relaxed. According to this father of my kid's teammate they were interested in the travel agency or brokerage business.

I told him about some of the suspicions we had about how they raised funds to come to Spain, but he had no opinion on that, and said they were pleasant people, a bit more ambitious about their son's football than most but nothing more.

Merry Xmas to all, still enjoying reading and feel badly about not posting, but I am totally immersed in Guardiola playing the classic 3-7-0 to win the World Club Cup along with my boy, whose football is pretty damn entertaining as boys become little men.

[jpg75]

Thanks for the update Jeffrey.

[ThiKu]

Interesting update. Wonder if the kid'll come back to Canada and maybe contact the Whitecaps sometime....or at least play in the BC Prem Lge.

[Unnamed Trialist]

What I am saying, indirectly, or maybe not that indirectly, is that there is no reason to think that Gianni has any more promise than my kid or any of the boys on our team, including former teammates of his.

Okay, this age is tough as some players are already physically men and many are still kids, but as I see it no one I see playing in my kid's league looks good enough to be any more than maybe, if very lucky, a third or fourth tier semi-pro. All I see is more physically capable kids dominating enough to score, but, for example, I have not seen a single player who can dominate in the dribble or is a dominant playmaker for his team. Some goalkeepers are good, that is true, but that always happens. It is very competitive soccer, probably like a rep or HP in Canada, but still.

So unless Gianni takes a huge step up he cannot be made out to be anywhere near MLS material, never mind Canadian national team.

[ThiKu]

I know, I gotcha. Thus my wondering if he'd return home and try to get into pro soccer through the local premier league....the Whitecaps have already signed their first player directly from the league for their residency program - and the league is only 7-8 games old.

[zeelaw]

**** that kid.

ha