Southsiders Section Confirmed at BC Place and Empire

[SthMelbRed]

This assertion is dubious at best. I suspect there will be significant problems filling the ground on a consistent basis unless the club dominates the league. I know, without a doubt, that even with sellouts, and every Southsider feeling content, we will struggle to match the atmosphere in BMO, much less Anfield.

Even if that is the case, is it so bad? There are definitely enough fans in Vancouver who will attend matches to sustain the club, whether the stadium is sold out, or not. For me, and most people, the important thing is that the club is run well on the football side. If the team is performing well in the league and cup, and the club is developing decent players through the academy (hopefully a fair few local kids, included), then I couldn't care less if we aren't perceived as having the best atmosphere in the league. Unlike some people, I don't get a hard on because a section of the support sings, chants, and beats drums for 90 minutes regardless of what's happening on the field. Toronto has had that for four years and it hasn't got them anywhere in terms of wins and losses. Given the choice between the 'Highbury Library' and St James Park , I'd take Arsenal and their success every time over Newcastle's 'best fans in the world.' Knowledgeable football fans will let the team and the club know when they are happy with the product on display and when the club needs to do better.

[Slamo]

At this point, the hysteria over the ticketing issue is bordering on the ridiculous. A week ago, everybody agreed that the 'Caps were doing everything right, on and off the field. Because a few dozen people with a sense of entitlement are disappointed that reality has come to their land of delusion (seriously, read the ticket reaction thread on the Southsiders' forum), all of a sudden Barber, Lennarduzzi, and the entire FO are greedy incompetents who are hell bent on ruining the team.

There are thousands of people in Vancouver are more than happy with the ticket pricing and are greatly anticipating the start of MLS. I know people in Vancouver who stood on the Kop at Anfield in the '70s, cut their teeth at Parkhead during Old Firm derbies, and played in the old Yugoslavian first division. These people won't need the Southsiders to 'teach' them how to attend a football match properly.

The Southsiders need to realise that they represent a mere drop in the water of the football loving community in Vancouver. If they want to sit behind the goal, that's great. They'll have to pay the set rate. If they don't want to pay that price, they can move to the corner or stop attending. There will be another person ready to take their seat whatever decision they make. It'll be sad if they decide to move on, but the club will survive and thrive. Bashing the one man who has ensured pro soccer has survived in Vancouver for the past 20 years isn't going to change that or win them many friends in the broader Vancouver sports community.

(and for the record, I and many others - the majority, I would guess - rather like the kit and badge.)

Wow!! That's a lot of nonsense. The Caps are the top club in North America and will be the first Canadian team to qualify for the MLS playoffs. They were magic in signing two top level MLS players without using a DP spot by front loading Div 2 contracts. They have sent scouts around the world to see first hand and for themselves what they thought of potential trialist instead of using youtube videos. They have a great front office a vision for the future a sense of community an allegiance to the past a respect for their former players and so many other great things that everyone in the city would agree with!

They made one simple mistake: Every stadium in North America and most stadiums in the world have the cheapest seats behind the net and then the seats get more expensive as you get closer to midfield. The only exception being the odd obscured seat that will sell for less no matter where it is. The Cap FO has gone against this model even though the Lions using the same stadium use this model. The Cap FO has not addressed this discrepency and as such they have given the "appearance" that they have increased the cost of the seats along the end touch line only because of the atmosphere, therefore they are charging people more for their own actions - this is akin to charging someone more for a movie based on how much they enjoyed it; great marketing plan if you could get it to work. If their was no atmosphere in the Southside then; they would be the cheapest seats in the house. You see the problem is it "appears", and again I say "appear" because the FO hasn't addressed it, that you are being charged for being a supporter and would then pay less if you were less of a supporter. Make sense? No one in the city is calling for heads or anything else. This is still the best club on the continent the same way that a beautiful women with a pimple is still a beautiful women.

Don't confuse the issue with nonsense.

[RS]

The Caps are the top club in North America

No hyperbole whatsoever.

[SthMelbRed]

^ (to Slamo) the only nonsense in this debate has been the noise coming from elements of the Southsiders (seriously, go read the ticket price reaction thread on their forum). They keep saying that the ends are the worst seats in the house. If that's the case, they should be overjoyed to be able to get superior seats in the corners for cheaper. There is no law that says that seats must be priced with the highest costing at midfield and getting cheaper as you move away from the centre towards the goal. A seats value is determined by how much people want to sit there. If more people prefer to sit at the end behind the goal than in the corner, than those seats are more valuable based on that demand. There is no conspiracy to take advantage of the Southsiders. If this was the case, the tickets behind the north end wouldn't be priced the same.

[Slamo]

^^hey what would you expect me to say...would you not say the same about your club? If not then I would say you have something to complain about. I am completely happy with the club, the flip side of SMR original argument is that a few weeks back several people were mocking the SS for being to Buddy Buddy with the club. So, now there is a beef. No need to be extreme about things. If I didn't believe the club had the best club I would complain about the reasons behind that.

^that's what will most likely happen and that is actually what the thread you refer to is about. There is a fear that it may be hard to sell the end seats and if there is enough of a culture in Vancouver to sell poor view seats that are right beside a bunch of bad singers mixed with bad drummers. :-)

I am sure we all hope there is. I know I do.

[Trident]

No supporters go in the corners ever.

Oh wait, UB90 in Strasbourg.

[RS]

^^hey what would you expect me to say...would you not say the same about your club?

I love TFC, but not even close.

[Johnnie Monster]

@SthMelbRed and others:

Please understand that this is not at all an "entitlement" issue, nor is the gripe completely focused on prices.

The most important issue in all of this is WHERE these prices are being applied, and WHY...

The Whitecaps have introduced a seating plan which is **completely inconsistent** with football clubs around the world. We have searched high and low and we have been very hard pressed to find a single example anywhere in MLS, the UK or Europe where the least expensive seats in the house were not behind the net.

The only exceptions we've found seem to be buildings which have upper deck nosebleeds, or unusual structural elements with obstructed views (i.e. baseball stadiums converted for soccer, such as PGE in Portland).

The Whitecaps straight out told us the seats behind the net will cost more because there is a "perceived value" in the supporters experience.

If MLS clubs start targeting the wallets of their noisiest fans "just because," I think alarm bells need to go off pronto.

This issue is much, much bigger than the Southsiders... we just happen to be the first ones caught in the crossfire, which is why we are speaking out.

Mark my words - if the Whitecaps are allowed to put the squeeze on supporters culture without any form of pushback, Montreal will be next.

[Johnnie Monster]

@ Trident:

Supporters groups sit anywhere and everywhere. No argument there. In fact I fully expect that is where the Southsiders will end up.

You're chasing down the wrong argument though. Our beef has nothing to do with moving to a corner. The question that needs to be answered is WHY the seats behind the net at BC Place are more expensive than the corners, when every other team has it the other way around.

The UB90s sit in a section that costs 8 Euros a match.... but there is still another supporters area that only costs 5.

My French is very rusty, but I'd be willing to bet that you looked through Strasbourg's website, you'd find that the 5 Euro "popular stand" is behind the net, right where it should be.

Our point is that the view behind the net is traditionally the cheapest, and there is no reason for the Whitecaps to have it any other way. There is nothing unique about the end zone seats or sightlines at BC Place that warrants this kind of pricing structure. I don't care if it's Southsiders, Red Patch Boys, UM02, ECS or Timbers Army sitting back there - when ticket buyers are squeezed simply because they support their team louder than anyone else, that's BS (and I don't mean BigSoccer).

[Slamo]

I love TFC, but not even close.

You're right Rudi, that was a bit of ethnocentricity sneaking in...I excluded all of the latin clubs, I had originally wrote Canada and then extended that to include USA and wrote "North America"....I think we have a ways to go to match some of the Central American clubs, but I believe with the current structure we are the top club in USA/Canada and would be comfortable arguing that point.

[Trident]

@ Trident:

Supporters groups sit anywhere and everywhere. No argument there. In fact I fully expect that is where the Southsiders will end up.

You're chasing down the wrong argument though.

I'm chasing down nothing actually, I just enjoy whats happening out west.

Yeah you're getting squeezed by the demon of foot business. I don't expect the exact same thing to happen in Montreal, but if it does we'll fight it, and we will either win or lose, and you can either enjoy it or not enjoy it like I am now.

That's what makes life so wonderful.

[alberta white]

Thankfully we dont have these behind goal seating problems at Edmonton (erk!)

[tmcmurph]

I'm chasing down nothing actually, I just enjoy whats happening out west.

Yeah you're getting squeezed by the demon of foot business. I don't expect the exact same thing to happen in Montreal, but if it does we'll fight it, and we will either win or lose, and you can either enjoy it or not enjoy it like I am now.

That's what makes life so wonderful.

You sir, are evil incarnate!

[Trident]

You sir, are evil incarnate!

I did not invent schadenfreude, I just enjoy it.

[alberta white]

No supporters go in the corners ever.

Oh wait, UB90 in Strasbourg.

I'd venture that whoever is under that flag is getting a restricted view eh?

[Guest 120 dB]

what's the season ticket count at now? 60,000?

[joepaco]

what's the season ticket count at now? 60,000?

that's just the waiting list

[StartingEleven]

@ Trident:

Supporters groups sit anywhere and everywhere. No argument there. In fact I fully expect that is where the Southsiders will end up.

You're chasing down the wrong argument though. Our beef has nothing to do with moving to a corner. The question that needs to be answered is WHY the seats behind the net at BC Place are more expensive than the corners, when every other team has it the other way around.

The UB90s sit in a section that costs 8 Euros a match.... but there is still another supporters area that only costs 5.

My French is very rusty, but I'd be willing to bet that you looked through Strasbourg's website, you'd find that the 5 Euro "popular stand" is behind the net, right where it should be.

Our point is that the view behind the net is traditionally the cheapest, and there is no reason for the Whitecaps to have it any other way. There is nothing unique about the end zone seats or sightlines at BC Place that warrants this kind of pricing structure. I don't care if it's Southsiders, Red Patch Boys, UM02, ECS or Timbers Army sitting back there - when ticket buyers are squeezed simply because they support their team louder than anyone else, that's BS (and I don't mean BigSoccer).

You guys stop to think that maybe thats where the FO wants you guys? The corners I mean.

[ESG Shawn]

Thankfully we dont have these behind goal seating problems at Edmonton (erk!)

I wish we did.

[Slamo]

You guys stop to think that maybe thats where the FO wants you guys? The corners I mean.

Wouldn't they have included the corners in the supporter section then? Can you imagine being a new fan totally unaware of any of this and ending up buying four seats right in the middle of the Southside with your three young children? No one wants that, so if they want the Southside in the corners they should advertise that to the public. Really, no matter how you spin/slice it, there is a bit of a problem that needs to be addressed. I want the best experience possible for EVERYONE. This is what's missing in the discussion. Some want to make this an us against them issue instead of a let's work together issue. Starting 11, you are perpetuating this...this is NOT a fight, this is a discussion that needs to be worked out asap.

[alberta white]

ESG,

It could be worse.

At least the UofA didn't insist on FCE playing on the substandard grass inside the running track on the other side of the concrete (Berlin) wall.

If anyone hasn't guess what were on about yet.... I give you a clue.

Michael Palin? Stuck on the wall in the Roman dungeon?

Moaning about your seat Allocation?

...YOU LOOKEE LOOKEE... BAR--frequenters!

What we wouldn't give for some corner seating...etc;)

after three ..."always look on the bright side of life,

bom-peep-peep peep-peep peep-peep"

[Trident]

And here I thought the highest dude on Cansoc would be from Vancouver, not Edmonton.

[Drew Shaw]

Supporters groups aren't important in North America, so sports clubs don't really value them that much. That would change if a particular supporters' club could deliver or withdraw 2,000 season ticket holders, for example. But unless and until that happens, then sadly supporters' groups won't have much clout.

When I'm at Lions games, it's amazing how many "casual" fans there are around. I find it weird, personally. And the Whitecaps owners and admin rightly are more concerned about the average, middle-class or wealthy season ticket holder than about "supporters' club" types, who are mostly non-affluent young men. Cheers.

[alberta white]

And here I thought the highest dude on Cansoc would be from Vancouver, not Edmonton.

High on the fact that we actually have (another) team to support in Edmonton, Tri, although I do love that smell of Refined Tar Sand in the morning.

But to be serious for a minute or so, and to some extent backup Seathanaich. The southsiders are sadly on a hiding to nothing, in the short term at least due to North american sports clubs been created rather than been allowed to grow in an organic manner.

MLS caps might look like the NASL caps of this year but in all finacial aspects they are an entirley diffrent entitiy.

In short The southsiders are supporting a new club. Sorry guys but this is how the business model will view you and to be honest the MLS Caps should be paying you to turn up because you (and the other true caps fans) will create the atmosphere they are trying to sell. Its what happened when the EPL essentially rebranded the hooligan tainted English First Division, and it what Waldof and Stadler thought they could exploit at Anfield.

But the European UK model is not really a model at all. as mentioned earlier in the thread

The working class fan base took up the terraces at the back of the goals becuase they were cheap, not because it was good place to view the game. Actually as most of us know its really bad, but as fans we want to be there bacause its the one place where we get close enough to commune with our heros and Idols when, and if, they actully make the onion bag bulge. I can atest to the Kop seamingly SUCKING THE BALL IN THE NET. I know. I was there.

There were generally no seats behind the goal until the Hilsborogh disaster 1985, when the Taylor report dictated that the top flight in he UK had to be all seater stadia. Intrestingly this lead to the `gentrification` of football, with Tottenham Hotspur (Mr Barbers old bosses) prodominent in it metamorphosis into the Modern EPL (Europe still has Standing Room by the way)

Ironicly the Kop at Anfield was one of the last of the old mass terraces to go.

It was called the Kop by the fans, in honor of the East Lancs Regiment that was massacered on Spoin kop hill in the 1914 Boar War. Spoin Kop loosey Translates as `Look out hill`

Again this history is relativly unknown in North America but supporting from behind the goals is popular even in the era of all seater stadia because of the perceive history and the force of habit that is standing (or in this era ) behind your team (George Romero hints at it with his Zombies returning tothe mall in the film Dawn of the dead). The Southsiders kind of know that . and are annoyed that the Caps FO does not.

What I would hope for the South`s`is this.

Take up the corners . Let the FO sell the seats behind the goal to people who think they want to sit there because they have been sold the impression of the atmosphere. When they realise that the atmosphere the FO has suggested dosen`t materialise and then complain and move out. Hopefully the FO will get wise and fire sell the seats behind the goal to the folks who actually want them.

Trident could be right however, and I may be comlpletely off my box on this one.

Anyway the song ``Always look on the bright side of life`` became a bit of a football anthem in a few years back.

Usually when a lower league side was getting `mullered` by superior oposition in the FA Cup. A kind of a never mind, thing could be worse, at least we,ve not been relegated, sort of thing.

It might be worth bearing in mind for the Sothsiders if next years MLS sorjurn turn into bit of a `mare.

Good luck lads