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MLSE Is Not A Charity


bgnewf

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I never understood why this wasn't tied selling.

I never quite understood why it was illegal (it's still your choice) but my understand is that it was. Wouldn't this be an example of it?

I never realized that was illegal! Man, i should start documenting things...

Here's a link for those who are curious:

http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/01246.html

Anyone can make a complaint, i recommend gathering evidence such as emails and offer letters.

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Definitely feel sorry for the people who are struggling to put the money together right now due to the economy but I think at least some people are making an exaggerated fuss over what is only a $2 per game increase because they are looking for an excuse to jump off the bandwagon due to the relative lack of reflected glory so far. Worth bearing in mind that TFC supporters complained long and hard about the need for grass to replace the fieldturf. That issue probably wound up costing MLSE about $275 per spectator to sort out. I suspect the new training facility and JDG's contract over and above the salary cap probably will both eventually cost about the same. Even bringing in Mista for half a season this year probably cost about $40 per spectator extra. At least some of those extra expenses over and above the basic New England Revolution type operation were always likely to be passed on to the season ticket base rather than being taken out of the existing profit margin. As long as there are obvious things happening like that on and off the field which are being funded by the extra money and it isn't just a case of MLSE trying to maximize their profits I don't see a huge problem with the increase personally.

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Definitely feel sorry for the people who are struggling to put the money together right now due to the economy but I think at least some people are making an exaggerated fuss over what is only a $2 per game increase because they are looking for an excuse to jump off the bandwagon due to the relative lack of reflected glory so far. Worth bearing in mind that TFC supporters complained long and hard about the need for grass to replace the fieldturf. That issue probably wound up costing MLSE about $275 per spectator to sort out. I suspect the new training facility and JDG's contract over and above the salary cap probably will both eventually cost about the same. Even bringing in Mista for half a season this year probably cost about $40 per spectator extra. At least some of those extra expenses over and above the basic New England Revolution type operation were always likely to be passed on to the season ticket base rather than being taken out of the existing profit margin. As long as there are obvious things happening like that on and off the field which are being funded by the extra money and it isn't just a case of MLSE trying to maximize their profits I don't see a huge problem with the increase personally.

Ticket prices have nothing to do with other revenues or expenses a professional sports franchise has. Its all based on how much they think they can charge and still fill the building. So all these things like grass, training facility or transfers are meaningless when discussing ticket prices.

Personally, as a TFC season ticket holder, I can live with the $2 per game ticket increase.

But what I have a problem with are the following:

1. Not having the option to choose whether I want the MLS Cup ticket.

2. Paying ahead of time for tickets I may never get (V-Cup or CCL tickets).

I understand that 2 home games were added to the schedule. But the average fan isn't going to pull out his calculator and say 'hey, its only a small increase per game'. They are going to open their invoice and wonder why a team so woefully managed on the field, with apparent drop in demand in the stands is charging its fans hundred(s) of dollars more for season tickets.

MLSE/TFC has handled this poorly.

And to have Tom Anselmi act all smug in the Globe and Mail interview and tell us that its all about supply and demand is a kick in the nuts. Tell me you are trying to build a great franchise where winning is important. Don't throw out this business bs. We don't care.

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TFC supporters complained? I don't remember that.

Not sure if there is some issue with semantics going on here. Is your recollection that TFC supporters were happy with the fieldturf and generally didn't tend to see a need for grass to be installed prior to this season?

....They are going to open their invoice and wonder why a team so woefully managed on the field....

Which is basically my point about some people looking for a reason to jump off the bandwagon because of the relative lack of on field success so far. If MLSE are committed to developing a proper training facility for the first team and the academy and the new GM and coach regime will have the ability to make use of all three DP roster spots there is reason to believe that the extra money is actually being used to strengthen the performance of the team to a significant extent and is not just about helping Ontario teachers have a comfortable retirement and boosting the size of the bonuses of the corporate bigwigs at MLSE.

There is no guarantee of success in competitive sports. If after only four seasons people are making their continued support conditional on it being provided regularly due to a sense of entitlement that backing a team will inherently involve watching them win trophies regularly they should probably consider sticking to watching teams like Manchester United on cable. Backing an MLS team isn't going to be like that. There will be troughs as well as peaks for all of the teams because mechanisms are in place to ensure a reasonable level of competitive parity. What having 18,000 people paying significant sums for a season ticket can do is provide the funds for TFC to have the extra perks that push the balance over to the peak side of that equation more than will be the case with other franchises that cut corners financially. Regularly paying to watch the team play win or lose, rain or shine rather than only showing up to provide financial as well as vocal support in the good times is a big part of why supporters are called supporters.

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Which is basically my point about some people looking for a reason to jump off the bandwagon because of the relative lack of on field success so far.

But its way more complicated than that. Its not just the lack of success. Its what appears to be a total lack of direction.

And then to ask your customers for more money on top of that. That takes balls and I predict its going to bite MLSE in the ass this off season.

They are going to struggle to sell all their season tickets that cost $1000+ per seat per season. Everyone is looking to move to the cheaper seats.

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Not sure if there is some issue with semantics going on here. Is your recollection that TFC supporters were happy with the fieldturf and generally didn't tend to see a need for grass to be installed prior to this season?

Nope, not semantics. I just don't remember supporters complaining "long and hard" about the fieldturf (and in this non black and white world of ours, the absence of complaining doesn't mean they unconditionally loved it). I remember Mo complaining, DeRo complaining, Stalteri complaining etc. but not the supporters, especially to the extent whereby they should expect trickle down increases to their ticket prices due to their demands for upgrades.

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But its way more complicated than that. Its not just the lack of success. Its what appears to be a total lack of direction.

A total lack of direction when grass has been installed, way more than lip service is clearly being paid to the youth academy and a proper training facility is finally going to be built? The first couple of seasons were always likely to be a write off because nobody with a career heading in the right direction was going to go near the coach and GM jobs initially. Hence why first choice for the job Frank Yallop turned it down and MLSE had to turn to Mo Johnston instead. I was not happy about Preki getting fired because that had clearly changed by the end of season three and with patience I think Preki would have achieved good things with TFC over the next few seasons.

I'm skeptical about Tom Anselmi's ability to find somebody better but the sure fire way to turn TFC into a disaster area would be for the season ticket holders to turn their backs en masse right now and jump off the bandwagon. If digging a bit deeper to pay for the season ticket helps the new GM and coach sign the player that Mista should have been and to actually sign a player like Izaguirre I'll regard it as money well spent. Even if it doesn't barring an outrageous increase that I seriously doubt is in any way likely odds on I'll renew again in 2012 to watch the process unfold again and so on. I waited 20 years for this team to emerge more in hope than expectation so just having TFC still seems like a dream come true.

My gut instinct is that there will be a significantly lower renewal rate than 95% this season but that there will still be enough people from the waiting list to make up the shortfall (MLSE usually know what they are doing in marketing terms) and that the new fan base that emerges will have fewer blocks of scalper controlled seats, fewer Premiership gloryhunter types drawn primarily by the Beckham signing and more people that will be in it for the long haul. What's unfolding right now was a process that was always going to happen eventually, basically.

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A total lack of direction when grass has been installed, way more than lip service is clearly being paid to the youth academy and a proper training facility is finally going to be built?

LOL. You make me laugh.

The direction of the TEAM. The grass means **** **** all.

The team has no general manager and an interim head coach. The roster is a mess. Another season went down the drain.

And the loyal fans get rewarded with another price hike.

And as I stated earlier, other expenses have nothing to do with ticket prices. Ticket prices are based on the highest amount you think you can get from your customers. It has no relation to cost of grass (which was paid by the Edu transfer money anyways).

If digging a bit deeper to pay for the season ticket helps the new GM and coach....

Wow. I can't believe I just read that.

That was the best laugh I had in weeks.

This team already has the resources to be one of the most successful teams in the league. Its not the fans job to make this team better. That's on management's shoulders.

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Grass has nothing to do with the price hike for another reason. The installations of the grass was paid through the league reserve fund that holds that $$$ that the clubs earn through transfers of players. In this case, since TFC got $5MILL for Mo Edu, $3.5 mill of that amount sat in the reserve fund which was used for the grass. the new surface did not add to the costs of doing business.

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The team has no general manager and an interim head coach. The roster is a mess. Another season went down the drain.

And the loyal fans get rewarded with another price hike.

All this angst after only four seasons? How do you think fans of clubs like Bolton, Osasuna, Motherwell or Livorno cope with decade after decade of being second best to the high flyers like Man United, Barcelona, Rangers and Inter Milan? Genuine support as opposed to gloryhunting is through both thick and thin. If you see on field success as an entitlement rather than something special to be savoured then maybe a league like MLS simply isn't for you.

the new surface did not add to the costs of doing business.

Pushing your argument way too far with that. It costs more to maintain a grass field and revenue streams associated with public access were largely eliminated when the playing surface was dedicated almost exclusively for use by pro soccer teams.

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All this angst after only four seasons? How do you think fans of clubs like Bolton, Osasuna, Motherwell or Livorno cope with decade after decade of being second best to the high flyers like Man United, Barcelona, Rangers and Inter Milan? Genuine support as opposed to gloryhunting is through both thick and thin. If you see on field success as an entitlement rather than something special to be savoured then maybe a league like MLS simply isn't for you.

Are you really going to play the entitlement card? I have been a Canadian national team fan longer than a TFC fan. I'm still a fan of the Blue Jays, Leafs and Raptors as well. I don't need some MLSE apologist on the internet to give me a lesson on glory-hunting. I complain about the way this team is run because I want to see it succeed. Not because I'm jumping ship.

The only thing I think I'm entitled to is a fair price structure for my season tickets. Maybe the club can show that it really values my loyalty?

I realize winning in sports isn't easy. But it appears this team is run way worse than others. And when you consider that this team has the financial resources to continually compete better than it has, it makes you wonder what the hell is going on. To simply brush that off as 'that's just the way things are' is ludicrous. I would like to see this team appear to be moving in the right direction for once. Sorry if 4 years under the inept Mo Johnston has left me cynical.

And like I said, I can live with the cost of my tickets. Its being forced to buy the MLS Cup and games that may not happen that have upset me.

We can't all bend over like you.

Some people demand accountability. Sometimes we have to draw the line between support and straight out being raped by MLSE.

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All this angst after only four seasons? How do you think fans of clubs like Bolton, Osasuna, Motherwell or Livorno cope with decade after decade of being second best to the high flyers like Man United, Barcelona, Rangers and Inter Milan? Genuine support as opposed to gloryhunting is through both thick and thin. If you see on field success as an entitlement rather than something special to be savoured then maybe a league like MLS simply isn't for you.

That analysis presupposes thick to accompany the thin... At this point the complaint is that there's no indication that thick is even on the radar (unless you're measuring MLSE wallets).

I was just barely alive the last time the Laffs won a cup and the support of that franchise has always mystified me. They've been actively tarnishing the brand for years (with what I consider a brief interlude in the early post-Ballard days, coinciding with real market competition in the form of the World Series winning Blue Jays) yet people continue to come. Talk about your classic "harvest" brand. (Sales cycles for products start with "Invest" then "Sustain" and then "Harvest")

I am watching for evidence that they're not treating FC as another harvesting opportunity...

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Talk about your classic "harvest" brand. (Sales cycles for products start with "Invest" then "Sustain" and then "Harvest")

I am watching for evidence that they're not treating FC as another harvesting opportunity...

I think 'harvesting' is exactly what TFC management is doing. They are trying to push out the earlier supporters for people willing to drop more money on the team. The difference here being that TFC does not have the fan base that the Leafs have. So they are playing with fire. If the team was more succesful on the field I think they may have gotten away with it. It will be interesting to see what the renewal numbers are.

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I think 'harvesting' is exactly what TFC management is doing. They are trying to push out the earlier supporters for people willing to drop more money on the team. The difference here being that TFC does not have the fan base that the Leafs have. So they are playing with fire. If the team was more succesful on the field I think they may have gotten away with it. It will be interesting to see what the renewal numbers are.

When you're dealing with sports teams, you're even more invested in the brand than when there's a tangible product (say, "Tylenol," for example). Loyalty to the brand is dependent on social aspects and those social aspects include stability of the experience and interconnected social activation. (ie being part of the tribe) The problem with being too aggressive in trying to get to harvest from investment in this context is that you haven't really established the stability of the brand, so people will drift away if the on-field product doesn't entertain them enough to tune in.

This is not the only way to lose your tribe, but it's the one under discussion here. Toronto Blue Jays lost their tribe through bad management of the strike and immediate post-strike rebuilding phase (which coincided with Interbrew taking full control of the marketing for Labatt). 15 years later they still struggle to draw half the crowds that were gimme's in the early 90's.

If these fans drift away, the support can quickly evaporate, and it will take forever to rebuild the brand (if it can even be done).

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That analysis presupposes thick to accompany the thin... At this point the complaint is that there's no indication that thick is even on the radar (unless you're measuring MLSE wallets).

...and, so what? That's where the sense of entitlement enters the equation. I followed a team called Hamilton Accies when I was growing up. They have never won a major trophy in over 130 years of existence and probably never will. The fact they lost more than they won didn't stop me from having some good times watching them as a kid. It's almost comic reading all the angst from some people about a lack of success after just four seasons. Oh the calamity! It's painfully obvious at times that a significant portion of the TFC fanbase see the consistent success that a very small group of top European clubs tend to achieve as being the norm when supporting a club because they have been introduced to the game by watching one of these clubs regularly on cable. It's not.

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It's almost comic reading all the angst from some people about a lack of success after just four seasons. Oh the calamity! It's painfully obvious at times that a significant portion of the TFC fanbase see the consistent success that a very small group of top European clubs tend to achieve as being the norm when supporting a club because they have been introduced to the game by watching one of these clubs regularly on cable. It's not.

Man, that's a reach.

I didn't know MLSE had an office in London.

Ignore me too!

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