GERMANY vs CANADA (Pre-Game / In-Game) Thread (R)

[Pete K]

I hope by "the mess" you are in no way referring to the senior team. That squad is made up of some of the finest players ON THE PLANET. Ya know you folks are starting to irritate me with your overly harsh perspectives. None of you would judge / indict someone you knew this harshly. It's getting a bit ridiculous.

All of the WN interview videos I've seen have players saying Carolina is making them play differently. They all seem to appreciate it but it's DIFFERENT from what they've been instructed to do the last EIGHT YEARS. They've all played in different systems at a high level elsewhere so I expect them to adapt quickly. But even FC Gold Pride-- Marta + Sinclair leading the charge-- have had lulls in their near-flawless WPS performance this year... and they've been together for MONTHS. the CDN nt doesn't get that kind of time together altho' Carolina is working hard to remedy that.

I've gotta side with those who belive we have talented players in the u20, u17 and sr nat'l team pools. THE CURRENT POOLS. Leveraging talent is not as cut & dry as y'all make it sound. For decades, CDNS have attended the Olympics with "we're just happy to be here" mentality. Not so for our CDN female soccer players. They expect to win on the world stage. Here's the thing people, you gotta peak at the right time. Perdita Felicien (CDN) and Lolo Jones (USA) both won Golden League 100m hurdles races this summer. But it was Lopes-Schliep (CDN/Olympic bronze) who won the championship race because she peaked WHEN IT MATTERED MOST... and blew everyone out of the water.

It's tough for our WNT to all peak at the right time because they're scattered all over the globe in league teams that don't all finish playing at the same time. If they earn a WC spot in Cancun, I'll cry tears of joy. I almost cried today over the score but quickly thanked God they're NOT IN CANCUN YET. They've got time to tighten things up a whole lot. Plus, this is a warning shot across the bow that could serve as a great wake-up call for them, Morrace included.

I appreciate that this is a place to vent frustrations but DAMMIT PEOPLE, show some compassion!! Morrace has great credentials, as did Pellerud, when she arrived. Even was left alone to do his job and achieved some success. I think she should have a full 3 years to do what she can. Why so long? This isn't a league team. They don't have an uninterrupted season of consecutive months to work together... unless CDN were to buy a WPS franchise. THAT IS A SOLUTION worth considering. For sure WPS has at least one more year of life left. That's not likely enough time to add a CDN franchise but... ya never know. It may be possible to buy a WC.

In the meantime... EASE UP. Put down the rifles! Stop predicting Morrace's imminent demise. Give her time and give the players the RESPECT THEY'VE EARNED... to make some mistakes and grow together.

Strand. I am vascillating between telling you how I think your passion for the team is fantastic, and asking you what someone put in your Cheerios this morning to have you be so sensitive to what I thought was a fairly benign post.

I apologize if the word mess seemed harsh. I was actually defending Morace with that statement, in bringing to light the point that she has no control over the youth teams. I agree that she has a mountain to climb, as not only does she have limited days to work with the team, in a system of play that she wants to employ, but that there is no marriage between all the different youth national teams. Almost every other country has a streamlined youth program that in theory prepares the players technically and tactically for the senior team. For example Popp and Kulig for Germany are fresh off of the U20 World Cup, and from the highlights anyways, looked like they just slid right into the senior team's gameplan. You can be damn sure that the U17 and U20 coach in Germany is in constant contact with the senior national coach Neid, in terms of systems of play and players that are chosen and how they are developing. We don't need any more disadvantages, and having some kind of streamlined system supported by the CSA that the national team coach has full control would be an obvious given in any other country. Not so in Canada.

I have read people on this forum berate Morace for the U17 performance when she had absolutely no say over anything, including the coach. I have that as second hand information, so take it for what its worth, but knowing what I know about Morace and her style of play, I would say having BR lead a group of 16 year old girls that she in theory would be inheriting some of in a few years, to be like the Pope asking Lady Gaga to mentor the upcoming priests in leading Mass.

My point was that because of the morons at the CSA (use of harsh word intended), that she inherits players when they get to U20 that she has had no role or say in developing. When I say mess, I mean, that she gets players that don't fit the system that she wants to employs aka she gets track stars and strong athletes with no touch, instead of the players with ball skills and tactical acumen that would fit her system. I've read people say, well if the kids get cut from NTC and the like that they should keep on going, and they don't deserve success if they don't. I don't know if anyone has read the book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell; for anyone with any interest in youth development in sports its an excellence explanation of how the system hurts the kids that don't get picked at a young age. Those that do make the NTC's etc, get the opportunity for being surrounded by better players, in theory getting better coaching, having a better resume so getting to a better university in theory etc, so the gap widens, and it does make it difficult for kids that don't make the cut to get to the highest levels, even if they have the aspiration. Not every kid out there like Ortiz from BC, has another passport so they can get cut from our Provincial Team and then make a roster for a U17 World Cup (Colombia in 2008). As a nice side note, she is now playing for our U20 National Team, but how many more Ortiz's (soccer players as opposed to athletes) are out there?

My point being is that, as others have mentioned, there are kids out there with fantastic ball skills, great tactical acumen etc, that maybe are short (think the Kelly Parker's or Diana Matheson's). They would thrive in Morace's system. They don't even get picked for their Provincial Team because the coach favours the big athletes, they get lost in the system, and then come time for that crew to be handed to Morace only the big athletes with no touch are left. Perhaps then the question become, does Morace just abandon her desire to play "good" soccer, and work with the broken system she has been given, and employ a system like EP's? I like results for sure, but I also like the idea of the game developing and players developing as well. I think you only need to look at players that started under EP as teenagers to see how little they developed under his system. And hell, I think part of the beautiful game is enjoying and growing with the ball at your feet.

I would prefer at least to give Morace a few years with these players (and full control over the entire program from U15 on up) to try as see if we can get results.

That being said, for Strand's sake and anyone else that might have thought I came across as not supporting the team, I am 100 percent behind them, and would love to see nothing more than a WC qualification and a super successful WC and Olympic run. If it takes a 5-0 shellacking against Germany to give them some incentive to really get down to business and work to put in a great performance in Cancun, and hopefully in Germany next year, then I am all for it.

[ThruBall]

My point being is that, as others have mentioned, there are kids out there with fantastic ball skills, great tactical acumen etc, that maybe are short (think the Kelly Parker's or Diana Matheson's). They would thrive in Morace's system. They don't even get picked for their Provincial Team because the coach favours the big athletes, they get lost in the system, and then come time for that crew to be handed to Morace only the big athletes with no touch are left. Perhaps then the question become, does Morace just abandon her desire to play "good" soccer, and work with the broken system she has been given, and employ a system like EP's? I like results for sure, but I also like the idea of the game developing and players developing as well. I think you only need to look at players that started under EP as teenagers to see how little they developed under his system. And hell, I think part of the beautiful game is enjoying and growing with the ball at your feet.

I would prefer at least to give Morace a few years with these players (and full control over the entire program from U15 on up) to try as see if we can get results.

I agree.....

Only with a fully implemented change to the CSA Governance will the Canadian Soccer Vision get one step closer.....

http://csagovernancemodel.blogspot.com/

If this proposal does not pass by March 2011 in a general assembly meeting (the proposal has recieved full executive support from all associations in May 2010).....the in fighting among Provincial Associations and the politicing around the National teams will continue.........team results will remain the second priority.

The bus for the game is in the parking lot.....who will get on it.....who is going to take their own car?

[StrandOne]

Only with a fully implemented change to the CSA Governance will the Canadian Soccer Vision... blah blah blah...

The bus for the game is in the parking lot.....who will get on it.....who is going to take their own car?

I'm going "Green" (my surname). I'll walk. And I'm sure I'll get to the Promised Land before you... and yer bus. I'm sorry Peter K. but YOU GUYS crapped on my Cheerios so batten down the hatches. I'm tired of hearing the WHOLESALE CHANGE is THE ONLY WAY for the Cdn soccerscape to improve dramatically. I think it's absolutely foolish to think that a 180 turn of an AIRCRAFT CARRIER is an easy maneuver. It's easier to tinker with smaller pieces of the BIG PICTURE-- like a mosaic. I'm not saying that's the only way to fix things but this GET ON THE BUS FOR WHOLESALE CHANGES mentality is just as destructive as the problems at hand.

I'm heated that people want to look OUTSIDE the current group for "talent". THERE ARE ONLY SO MANY SPOTS. It will always be true that there are other players-- short, tall, skinny & chunky-- who could play exceptionally at the national level. Tough beans! Yes, there should be communication between national team head coaches. The transition from Ian Bridge to Bryan Rosenfeld was prolly the most convenient one. I think it worked out well enough-- a fabulous Gold Cup result + a not-so-fabulous World Cup result. If CSA decides to review the position and new candidates, I hope BR will also get an interview. Until then, Carolina does indeed have her work cut out for her. But please stop brandishing axes and circling like vultures over her. That doomed + defeatist spirit may be very Canadian but ISN'T NECESSARY. Instead, choose optimism and encouragement.

Carolina hasn't even come close to failing. And to me the bottom line is this: she can work well with what she's got. She can do HER THING well with the pool of players she has. I think Carolina can slowly, and vastly, improve the play of the WNT and I will CHEER her as she goes about that. I think CSA has given her plenty of room to operate, as evidenced by her MASSIVE entourage of Italian staff. Whatevs. She can have 'em if that'll make this process go smoothly... and we'll all learn to speak a little Italian. Brava. But she can make the changes. She can do it. And I choose to believe + COMMENT that she WILL meet success in her efforts. Same goes for the players

Have you read these young women's (NT player) Tweets? They LOVE this game. It takes more than passion to win but they are easily a very dedicated lot who are FIRST CLASS PEOPLE. Show them more respect. Stop talking about the coaching system and everything around the players like they have no ownership of how they perform. Emily Zurrer responded to one of my tweets this morning. I was inquiring of the players "Gimme your take on the game. What happened out there?" She took responsibility in saying it wasn't their best game. But she realizes that Cancun is what matters. Stop talking AROUND these young women like they don't matter or can't have a bigger impact, in smaller mosaic-type ways, than the GET ON THE BUS mentality. We should b exorting THEM to be part of the solution. We should find ways to bring THEM home to be the voice that encourages excellence in the system. They've played in far-flung corners of the globe under amazing & varied coaches. Their network of contacts reach around the globe & back. Not every player makes a great coach but why not invest in 10-15 of THEM to become coaches?? Not simply because they're Canadian, but because some of them are THE BEST ON THE PLANET. Seriously, Christine Sinclair ?? Why are we not finding ways to have her come home every second her schedule allows and imploring her to coach HERE?? I humbly submit that our WNT Talent Pool is the deepest, most precious resource we have. Ummm I honestly can't speak about the guys' side because I don't pay them mush attention. Sorry. I won't apologize for the bias. There are enough people concerned with the mens' game, not enough attention on PROMOTING the women's game so...

Sports is my oxygen and soccer is my drug. But y'all could stand to EXPRESS far more support and optimism for the current situation. It's NOT all relative. Being ranked 13th in the world is NOT Armageddon, nor a sign of the FREAKIN' APOCALYPSE. I now have a migraine. I need to chill out. You people are gonna give me an aneurysm :S j.k. but I think I need to step back from the forum for awhile. So I part ways with this-- "all is not evil. all is not lost."

[StrandOne]

Strand. I am vascillating between telling you how I think your passion for the team is fantastic, and asking you what someone put in your Cheerios this morning to have you be so sensitive to what I thought was a fairly benign post...

When I say mess, I mean, that she gets players that don't fit the system that she wants to employs aka she gets track stars and strong athletes with no touch, instead of the players with ball skills and tactical acumen that would fit her system.

My point being is that, as others have mentioned, there are kids out there with fantastic ball skills, great tactical acumen etc, that maybe are short (think the Kelly Parker's or Diana Matheson's). They would thrive in Morace's system. They don't even get picked for their Provincial Team because the coach favours the big athletes, they get lost in the system, and then come time for that crew to be handed to Morace only the big athletes with no touch are left. Perhaps then the question become, does Morace just abandon her desire to play "good" soccer, and work with the broken system she has been given, and employ a system like EP's? ... hell, I think part of the beautiful game is enjoying and growing with the ball at your feet.

I would prefer at least to give Morace a few years with these players (and full control over the entire program from U15 on up) to try as see if we can get results.

That being said, for Strand's sake and anyone else that might have thought I came across as not supporting the team, I am 100% behind them, and would love to see nothing more than a WC qualification and a super successful WC and Olympic run. If it takes a 5-0 shellacking against Germany to give them some incentive to really get down to business and work to put in a great performance in Cancun, and hopefully in Germany next year, then I am all for it.

Ok Peter, now I'm the one who is vascillating. I appreciate hearing of your support and willingness to overlook a 5-0 score-- very generous of you. That's the good news. Now the bad... WHO THE F ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU REFER TO BIG ATHLETES WITH NO TOUCH LEFT?? That is a bloody disrespectful generalization of a group that includes Sinclair, Parker, Matheson, LeBlanc, etc. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT MAN? WNT players are keys to victory for their professional / semi-pro / university teams. WHO ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Name them! Y'all lamblast coaches every chance y'all get. I defy you to name an ACTIVE NT player you feel is an millstone around the team's neck and doesn't deserve to play. GIMME ONE NAME.

What I love about soccer is that even Pele could improve aspects of his individual performance at his apex. It's just that kind of game. There's always room to grow your individual skill level. Being an amazing ATHLETE is a great foundation. Can Morrace TEACH THEM to improve their touch? Ofcourse she can! It's part of the game / growth process. And there is increasing proof that women mature as athletes later on than men. And the core group we have is far from being a bunch of Lost Causes. From where I'm sittin'-- the best is yet to come.

[Sam]

This may be slightly controversial, but there is a major issue I've noticed watching womens sports (and this is by no means purely based on soccer). Words like effort, passion and drive seem to be thrown around much more in the womens game than in the mens game. These are factors the main stream media, fans, players, coaches and everyone else involved in the sport like to use as an excuse for what the game is all about in the end - results. These girls are professional athletes and deserved to be judged as such, I don't want to hear about the amazing effort they've put in or the amount of love they have for the game because it means very little without the results. If we look purely at the results of this team which is the way this team and all womens teams should be judged (its the way we judge all other sports teams - why should the women be any different?) this is a team in a major decline.

In 2003 this team was the fourth best team in the world and hungry for more! With Pellarud the team stagnated, but Pellarud should not take all the blame the players need to be held accountable. As professional athletes they must put up there hands and say most of what we've accomplished over the last 7 years just is not good enough. The only two real accomplishments this team has since the 03 World Cup run was a decent Olympics in 2008 where they gave the gold medalists a good match in the quarterfinals and a Cyprus Cup win last year (which really is a second tier tournament these days). For the quality this team has the rest is not good enough. As fans and for the members of the media we can't be cheerleaders of the program. We have to look at it and say would this team have lost to Germany 5-0 ten years ago? Probably not and if they did there would have been outcry.

When looking at Morace we really can't judge her until her team plays some competitive games which they will at the Gold Cup. However the question has to be raised - is the team today better than the team that lost 4-0 to the USA at BMO more than a year ago? I guess we'll find out when we get a chance to see them next week. Morace, her staff and most importantly her players have to evaluated. For a program that looked so bright 7 years ago today we are looking at a mediocre national team, a team we would never believe could come within 15 minutes of a World Cup final like they did in 03. We can keep using the excuses of effort, passion and love of the game to help us ignore how fall this team has fallen, but in reality there is a lot of work to be done...

[kj52]

I think the reality is that we have decent players but not so much for great players. Germany and the U.S. for instance have several outstanding players each. What that means is we're going to have to work harder and our coaching staff has to do a better job than the opposition's coaching. At the moment, we're not there yet. If we were our players would all be starting on WPS teams. As Sam stated - there is a lot of work to be done.

[StrandOne]

The only two real accomplishments this team has since the 03 World Cup run was a decent Olympics in 2008 where they gave the gold medalists a good match in the quarterfinals and a Cyprus Cup win last year (which really is a second tier tournament these days). For the quality this team has the rest is not good enough. As fans and for the members of the media we can't be cheerleaders of the program. We have to look at it and say would this team have lost to Germany 5-0 ten years ago? ...

Morace, her staff and most importantly her players have to evaluated. For a program that looked so bright 7 years ago today we are looking at a mediocre national team, a team we would never believe could come within 15 minutes of a World Cup final like they did in 03. We can keep using the excuses of effort, passion and love of the game to help us ignore how far this team has fallen, but in reality there is a lot of work to be done...

Man y'all keep baitin' me. Ok so first off-- there's no controversy in you "warm & fuzzy" observation, Sam. I'm a woman and I hear your point-- valid + duly noted. But I feel like you've brushed aside recent success. You mention them, but they don't seem to count for much in your assessment. I don't like that. Italy, England, Holland and New Zealand are worthy opponents @ Cyprus Cup. Don't sleep on the Kiwis. It was a great learning experience for everyone else. And weaker teams need to be tested by stronger teams to eventually achieve entertaining parity. Yes, Canada used to be ranked higher... when nobody else was PLAYING. But if Italy, England and Holland can't produce better women's programs with their HISTORY to learn from... I'd say that buffs our 13th spot to a shine. And the quarterfianls in Beijing-- you're gonna brush that off by mentioning a 4-0 loss in a FRIENDLY in the next breathe? I feel like Allan Iverson-- we talkin' 'bout PRACTICE? What does a friendly in a non-WC year have to do with the price of tea in Bangladesh? C'mon man. Yeah we've been ranked higher but NOBODY WAS PLAYIN' BACK THEN. Put that in check!! The world has risen to the opp'y to compete. There are players from countries where winning means much more to them-- their SAFETY, their finances, their culture, their nation's pride. You see the same thing in men' WC. England, France, Italy fell because their rosters were full of (older) players who felt like they no longer had to prove themselves. They are MILLIONAIRES running around on the pitch. It was the disciplined teams with more younger players, proving themselves & improving their lot in life on the world stage, who took the game by the throat. If you have some expectation that Canada's WNT should be like Brasil's mens' team with multi-decade dominance, you need to give your head a shake. I can't even get into that with you because that's not what is discussed here. Glossing over recent OLYMPIC and tournament success to point to a freindly last year is... silly. Y'all just don't seem to get how hard it is. I couldn't do it. I KNOW you couldn't do it. And while expectation is high, there should be room for a compassionate view of TRANSITION in a regime.

There is alot of work to be done. But I choose to cheer as they go about it... not boo. Yes, assessments should happen laong the way, but I don't like Sam's methodology.

[Sam]

^ First off I used the USA friendly as an example because I was looking at Morace's "progress" or lack thereof. But the main point is we were 15 Minutes away from a World Cup final and now I would be shocked if we got anywhere near a world cup final. We have dropped considerably - if we take that 03 World Cup as a benchmark and the 2002 U-19 World Cup for our youth teams we have dropped way down. You say all these countries weren't playing at a high level back then, you are right but we were at that highest level so why are we no longer at the level of the USA, Brazil, Germany, Sweden, Norway? Because we've all sat here as cheerleaders and kept telling the girls how well they've been doing when they really haven't been doing that well at the international level....

[The Ref]

^ First off I used the USA friendly as an example because I was looking at Morace's "progress" or lack thereof. But the main point is we were 15 Minutes away from a World Cup final and now I would be shocked if we got anywhere near a world cup final. We have dropped considerably - if we take that 03 World Cup as a benchmark and the 2002 U-19 World Cup for our youth teams we have dropped way down. You say all these countries weren't playing at a high level back then, you are right but we were at that highest level so why are we no longer at the level of the USA, Brazil, Germany, Sweden, Norway? Because we've all sat here as cheerleaders and kept telling the girls how well they've been doing when they really haven't been doing that well at the international level....

And not forget we got stuck we a mentally stale coach in the person of Pellerud for 9 years.

[Sam]

And not forget we got stuck we a mentally stale coach in the person of Pellerud for 9 years.

He was the main cause I'm just illustrating the effect....

[StrandOne]

You say all these countries weren't playing at a high level back then, you are right but we were at that highest level so why are we no longer at the level of the USA, Brazil, Germany, Sweden, Norway? Because we've all sat here as cheerleaders and kept telling the girls how well they've been doing when they really haven't been doing that well at the international level....

I will admit that Canada's level of play has been kinda like joggin' in a marathon and getting passed by faster runners. We have talent and we play well-- albeit inconsistently. i'll give you that. But USA has this ridiculously well-funded FARM TEAM SYSTEM CALLED THE NCAA, ever heard of it? Div I alone has over 300 women's soccer programs. Ofcourse they'not all great teams but it's a ridiculous variety and system of training & competition. As for Brasil and Germany, they are... BRASIL AND GERMANY. Are u kiddin' me with that? I have NO CLUE where Sweden and Norway's success comes from but Pia Sundhage is now the U.S.A. head coach so...

I never said nothin' 'bout cheering on players who are stinkin' up the joint. In fact I asked 8 WNT players POINT BLANK in twitter yesterday "What happened out there?" I added that Cancun is what matters most but that makes it clear that I'm not takin' a disappointment in Cancun sittin' down. 9 years is a crock of poo... too long. I never advocated that long of a death march. I said Give the woman 3 years before we start calling for her head on a stake. I'm not ready to call it quits on Morrace (sp?) until AFTER the 2012 Olympics. THAT represents a respectable amount of time to turn the ship in a different direction and expect players to produce results. No warm & fuzzy-- just get it done ladies. I can call people to account without being dour & doomsday. Until London 2012 I choose to be encouraging. As the sands fall thru the hourglass, I will wish them well. I can read the handwriting on the wall as well as any knowledgeable soccer fan. But until London 2012 I choose to be encouraging. Mock me for that if you must, but I'm convinced that clear expectations + encouragement reap a better RESULT than expectations + beratement. The latter is not my style as a fan.

[CAFAN]

Everyone has their opinions and I like to see them, whether I disagree with them or not. Having said that:

1. I disagree with the notion that our previous coach was mentally stale. He produced all of Canada's good results at the WWC level (men or women) with a style that was not aesthetically pleasing - end of story. His last effort was a 2OT loss to the Olympic Gold medalist in the q/f which was a better result than Brazil got in the Oly final (Brazil lost in 1OT).

2. And I disagree with the statement that Canada was ranked higher in the past when no one was playing. All of the teams currently ranked higher than Canada were playing when Canada was at its peak FIFA ranking - which was only a few years ago. Most of them were ranked higher than Canada at Canada's peak. The exceptions are Japan, England and Australia who have all moved ahead of Canada. Italy was ranked lower than Canada when Canada was at its peak and is now ranked higher, but Italy has basically been stagnant since the original rankings in 2003. The previous 3 mentioned have moved up in total points and ranking since 2003.

3. I also disagree with the notion that Canada should be looking for technically and tactically sound players over strong, aggressive and fast players. It's not a matter of either/or, Canada needs 'all of the above' to compete at the highest levels. I do agree with the notion that small players should not be overlooked because of their size. If this is happening it is wrong-headed, but It makes me wonder how Matheson ended up on the CWNT.

4. Finally, I disagree with the statement that "if we were [there], all our players would be playing on WPS teams". Restrictions on foreign players in the WPS make this practically impossible for everyone but the USA. I'd like to see more of our players in the WPS and I think that is possible, but it may be more difficult after the WWC if Germany allows its WNT players to play in the WPS.

[StrandOne]

Now this is logic expressed in a way I really appreciate so...

1. agreed

2. ok. point well taken. research illuminates the issues.

3. agreed.

4. i'll keep saying this-- if Vancouver Whitecaps were to become a WPS team, they could shift player ruling to mirror MLS allowing far more CDNS onto the roster. Having Toronto FC or Montreal Impact follow suit with a women's squad + academy would give the NT an East & West coast base for NT players to go up against arguably the best players in the world-- TOGETHER. can i get an 'AMEN' ??

[CAFAN]

Now this is logic expressed in a way I really appreciate so...

1. agreed

2. ok. point well taken. research illuminates the issues.

3. agreed.

4. i'll keep saying this-- if Vancouver Whitecaps were to become a WPS team, they could shift player ruling to mirror MLS allowing far more CDNS onto the roster. Having Toronto FC or Montreal Impact follow suit with a women's squad + academy would give the NT an East & West coast base for NT players to go up against arguably the best players in the world-- TOGETHER. can i get an 'AMEN' ??

Your point #4 would help the CWNT immeasurably. I can't recall seeing this possibility discussed on the WPS web site.

[StrandOne]

CAFAN, you don't have to look far. I've posted this idea HERE! http://bit.ly/9ay8Bl It was the reason I returned to Voyageurs-- to check the pulse on the idea.

[StrandOne]

Also --> http://www.facebook.com/pages/WPS-in-Canada/114838785229199?ref=mf&v=wall <-- was set up in hopes of a Sept. 1st match @ Commonwealth.

[CAFAN]

My apologies for so many posts, I just happen to have too much time on my hands.....

In my 'research', I found a quote from the US press after the last Olympics that captures my concern about Carolina (time will tell whether it is nonsensical or not).

" When the score was still tied at 0-0 after 90 minutes, the U.S. turned up the heat in the first 15-minute extra time period, taking the late initiative to run a full-fledged attack. Indubitably, the superior fitness and toughness shown by the U.S. women began to wear Brazil ragged, forcing Marta to rush several thrilling last-gasp shots that Solo smothered.

There was no question the team's quarterfinal epic against Canada, which ran over four hours long, braced the team psychologically for another lengthy match. Mental toughness nearly always wins in a game of inches."

Regardless of his 'style', Pellerud brought a mental toughness to the CWNT that had been lacking in the past. In the last Oly q/f, it was clear that the USA was the better skilled team (no surprise there), but the Canadians' mental toughness pushed the USA to the brink of elimination. In the final, the USA used that experience as much as anything else to defeat Brazil who was the better skilled of the two teams.

I'm concerned that Carolina lacks the mental toughness needed to take the CWNT to previous heights and beyond. Of course I'd prefer to be wrong about that (I have no reason to wish Morace anything but success and would love to see Canada in a WWC final), but that's what my gut is whispering to me after watching what's been happening so far.

[kj52]

Everyone has their opinions and I like to see them, whether I disagree with them or not. Having said that:

1. I disagree with the notion that our previous coach was mentally stale. He produced all of Canada's good results at the WWC level (men or women) with a style that was not aesthetically pleasing - end of story. His last effort was a 2OT loss to the Olympic Gold medalist in the q/f which was a better result than Brazil got in the Oly final (Brazil lost in 1OT).

2. And I disagree with the statement that Canada was ranked higher in the past when no one was playing. All of the teams currently ranked higher than Canada were playing when Canada was at its peak FIFA ranking - which was only a few years ago. Most of them were ranked higher than Canada at Canada's peak. The exceptions are Japan, England and Australia who have all moved ahead of Canada. Italy was ranked lower than Canada when Canada was at its peak and is now ranked higher, but Italy has basically been stagnant since the original rankings in 2003. The previous 3 mentioned have moved up in total points and ranking since 2003.

3. I also disagree with the notion that Canada should be looking for technically and tactically sound players over strong, aggressive and fast players. It's not a matter of either/or, Canada needs 'all of the above' to compete at the highest levels. I do agree with the notion that small players should not be overlooked because of their size. If this is happening it is wrong-headed, but It makes me wonder how Matheson ended up on the CWNT.

4. Finally, I disagree with the statement that "if we were [there], all our players would be playing on WPS teams". Restrictions on foreign players in the WPS make this practically impossible for everyone but the USA. I'd like to see more of our players in the WPS and I think that is possible, but it may be more difficult after the WWC if Germany allows its WNT players to play in the WPS.

Point 4. Only a couple of clubs use their 6 spots, so realistically Canadians are not in high demand, if they were good enough they'd be playing, there's room.

[CAFAN]

Point 4. Only a couple of clubs use their 6 spots, so realistically Canadians are not in high demand, if they were good enough they'd be playing, there's room.

I recall reading somewhere that Tancredi had some green card issues which explained her absence and there was speculation prior to the 2010 season that Matheson was going to be picked up by one of the teams. Have the clubs stated why they haven't used all their foreign allotments? They don't necessarily need to choose Canadians, there are a lot of higher ranked teams to choose from.

[CAFAN]

CAFAN, you don't have to look far. I've posted this idea HERE! http://bit.ly/9ay8Bl It was the reason I returned to Voyageurs-- to check the pulse on the idea.

I'm all for it, but are there serious discussions taking place between the WPS management team and qualified Canadian investors?

btw I like KAS's idea "Americans and Canadians are both considered domestics on all teams".

[Trillium]

Can you explain why we had a pre camp in Rome ?

As to the game ... we need to replace or push Leblanc to be better she looked unfit and lost out there.

[mirokliment@shaw.ca]

Shocking defeat,I didn't see this was coming in terms of 0:5...WOW!!!

[StrandOne]

Point 4. Only a couple of clubs use their 6 spots, so realistically Canadians are not in high demand, if they were good enough they'd be playing, there's room.

just so we're clear--> http://bit.ly/d8HR1I

8. What is the definition of an International player? What is the maximum number of International players a team can include?

International players are defined as players who are not U.S. citizens and do not possess a green card for employment in the U.S. Per U.S. Soccer Federation guidelines, currently WPS teams may sign up to 5 (five) International players per team. WPS teams may also hold the WPS playing rights to an additional international player, for a total of six international players overall.

and to remove all doubt...

ATLANTA (5) Aluko - UK / Bachmann - Switzerland / Nolin - UK / Rasmussen - Norway / Yamaguchi - Japan

BOSTON (5) Dieke - Scotland / Fabiana - Brasil / del Rio - Spain / Scott - UK / Smith - UK / Walsh - Australia

CHICAGO (5) Boquete - Spain / Carney - UK / Chapman - UK / Cristiane - Brasil / Formiga - Brasil

GOLD PRIDE (4) Abily - France / Chapman - CAN / Sinclari - CAN / Marta - Brasil

PHILLY (5) Larsson - Sweden / LeBlanc - CAN / Magnusdottir - Iceland / Sanderson - UK / Seger - Sweden

NEW JERSEY (5) Kalmari - Finland / Koster - Holland / Panico - Italy / Parker - CAN / Rosana - Brasil

DC (5) Asante - UK / Bompastor - France / McLeod - CAN / Mykjalund - Norway / Sawa - Japan

I'm not sure why KJ feels there's plenty of room. That's a slap in the face of all the international talent out there that is KICKIN' CDN BUTT. One team currently has one int'l spot available. All other teams use up their full allotments. The battle for int'l spots in WPS is absolutely fierce. To have CDNs take up 5 of 35 spots available is testament that they are MORE THAN "good enough" to be in "high demand" indeed. 5 Brasilians and 7 Brits are the other "high demand" foreigners. Clearly KJ has NO IDEA what's actually happening on the international women's soccer scene, which is fine... just pipe down.

Clearly I'm extremely protective of the WPS. So don't bringing your noise in here without expecting to get SERIOUSLY CORRECTED... especially if you're gonna kick CDN WNT PLAYERS. Not on my watch KJ. Take that kack elsewhere... pretty please.

[StrandOne]

btw I like KAS's idea "Americans and Canadians are both considered domestics on all teams".

That'll never happen because the WPS exists to help the U.S. WNT maintain world domination. Like I said-- they built it. their rules. MLS exhibits protectionism too but TFS can have up to 11 Cdns. I'm not dead certain on that number because, as I've said before, I don't pay much attention to mens' soccer in N.America. But there's no way MLS would ever allow a Canada-based team to be 100% CDN.

[CAFAN]

That'll never happen because the WPS exists to help the U.S. WNT maintain world domination. Like I said-- they built it. their rules.

That's sort of what I thought re: expansion of the WPS into Canada, but I don't know what the top WPS people are thinking re: the future of the league in that regard. Ultimately I expect the USA would benefit from a stronger Concacaf region (and an expansion of the WPS outside the USA would help) but I haven't seen the USSF come out and say that. Hypothetically, in the event that the WPS did expand into Canada, I think the foreign player definition would likely end up being in line with Kas's idea.