Gold Cup Points Cut-Off Date

[Tuscan]

Hello everyone,

Haven't had a chance to really post since getting back from our trip yet. It was great to meet and see all the Vs who made it out to both Toronto and Montreal, great times were had indeed. There were a few faces I thought were missing from both games, but otherwise decent turn-outs.

Perhaps I've missed this in previous Gold Cup threads, but is there a cut-off date for points accumulated for the upcoming Gold Cup - by this I mean, is there a specific date when CONCACAF takes the current points position of each nation to decide how the groups will be set up? Beating Honduras will only help, but I wonder what kind of impact losing to Peru will have. Also, is this upcoming friendly against Ukraine critical in any fashion? Aside from the usual disappointment if we lose, should we be stressing about this one for any other reasons that that?

We all know how critical our performance in this year's Gold Cup is going to be, and seeing as how no other friendlies have been announced for some of the upcoming winter friendlies dates, perhaps this match vs Ukraine needs to be nothing less than a W.

[TFCRegina]

First, let's dispel something. Losses are worth 0 points. You don't receive negative points for losses. The current calculation method treats a loss the same as not playing at all. So you're not punished for playing and losing. The magnitude of the win in terms of points is amplified by a number of factors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Rankings#Current_calculation_method

Since amplifiers are multiplied by the value of the points accumulated in a match, you can't lose FIFA points for losing (multiply by zero, and you get zero).

[Blackdude]

Do we even know if there is a Gold Cup draw? I'm trying to look at the 2009 Gold Cup draw and there is no mention of any pots. I've seen that since 2007, they put in each group at least one team from each region. Coincidence? I think not.

[Sam]

^ Correct it is not a draw, but there is just an announcement of Gold Cup groups. To be perfectly honest though if we get screwed with a Gold Cup group but do alright and come out with more FIFA points for WCQ I'm happy. Right now GC groups don't mean anything, but points for WCQ groups mean everything!

[rdroze]

First, let's dispel something. Losses are worth 0 points. You don't receive negative points for losses. The current calculation method treats a loss the same as not playing at all. So you're not punished for playing and losing.

Wrong. Playing and losing is worse than not playing at all (provided you play at least 5 games per 12-month period, and get some results in those games).

The rankings points for each country are calculated based on the average points accumulated in each of the games within a 12-month period; the last four 12-month periods are then combined in a weighted average. You're correct in that you receive zero points for a loss, but that game played still gets counted in the average. If you play five games in a year and lose all of them, your points for that year are (0+0+0+0+0)/5 = 0. Do that four years in a row, and you'll be sitting with American Samoa in 202nd place.

See here for the full details: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/fifafacts/r&a-wr/52/00/97/fs-590_10e_wr-pointcalculation.pdf

And no, I don't think there is a real draw for the Gold Cup.

[Alex]

First, let's dispel something. Losses are worth 0 points. You don't receive negative points for losses. The current calculation method treats a loss the same as not playing at all. So you're not punished for playing and losing. The magnitude of the win in terms of points is amplified by a number of factors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Rankings#Current_calculation_method

Since amplifiers are multiplied by the value of the points accumulated in a match, you can't lose FIFA points for losing (multiply by zero, and you get zero).

From what I understand losses are calculated into your ranking, as the average number of points gained from games played over the course of a year go toward how many points you get. If Im correct we got half the amount of points by losing to Peru then if we didnt play them at all. We played 7 games in the last year, add the points gained in those games and divide by 7. They made it easier to understand than it was a couple years ago with the last 4 years being taken into account instead of 8. It looks like its possible to actually figure it out how many points we would have ever month but I dont have the desire. We need a rank calculator thread.

Whoops, yeah just read the post above mine.

[Alex]

Do we even know if there is a Gold Cup draw? I'm trying to look at the 2009 Gold Cup draw and there is no mention of any pots. I've seen that since 2007, they put in each group at least one team from each region. Coincidence? I think not.

Ill bet they will separate US, Mexico and Honduras for making the world cup. Then fill in the rest based on where they draw the best. Haiti will play in Miami again, etc.

It'll be something like:

US, CR, Guat, Cuba

Mex, Els, Pan, Jam

Hon, T&T, Can, Haiti

Fill in any of Guadeloupe, Martinique, Grenada for the caribbean teams, or even Nicaragua who beat Guatemala in 09 qualifying.

[CanadasBest]

Pretty much a spot on grouping, but Canada, Mex, and the US have been the main seeds in the past and will probably continue.

[nazzer]

In 2009 they seeded USA, Mexico and us with the reason being that we three were all past champions. But they always seem to put the top central american team in our group. So this time it will be Honduras that is with us in the group stage.

[Edgar]

Also, is this upcoming friendly against Ukraine critical in any fashion? Aside from the usual disappointment if we lose, should we be stressing about this one for any other reasons that that?

We all know how critical our performance in this year's Gold Cup is going to be, and seeing as how no other friendlies have been announced for some of the upcoming winter friendlies dates, perhaps this match vs Ukraine needs to be nothing less than a W.

1. Yes, it is. If CONCACAF will again use the FIFA ranking to seed the teams in the WCQ draw - the game against Ukraine is crucial - and so are the remaining friendlies before the draw. That also depends on the ranking CONCACAF choose - pre-Gold Cup or post-Gold Cup.

2. The CSA are considering the possibility of a Nov 17 friendly.

[Keano]

1. Yes, it is. If CONCACAF will again use the FIFA ranking to seed the teams in the WCQ draw - the game against Ukraine is crucial - and so are the remaining friendlies before the draw. That also depends on the ranking CONCACAF choose - pre-Gold Cup or post-Gold Cup.

2. The CSA are considering the possibility of a Nov 17 friendly.

Hopefully against someone beatable but decent. Like... China? Albania? Israel?

[footballfreak]

Hopefully against someone beatable but decent. Like... China? Albania? Israel?

I don't like our odds against any of those teams, tbh. Maybe a second-tier African team in a neutral European venue? I'm sure there's a number of teams like Burkina Faso and Cape Verde, whose players play primarily in the French or Portuguese leagues. It might also be easier to convince players on the fence to come play a friendly in Marseille instead of Skopje (no offence intended to those with Macedonian heritage).

[Tuscan]

2. The CSA are considering the possibility of a Nov 17 friendly.

Interesting, what's your source for the lead on the possible Nov 17 friendly? I assume it'd have to be in Europe some where, but seeing as how it'd be after the MLS Cup, players like Nana, JDG, Cann, Hainault, Jakovic, Jazic, DeRo, et al would be available. Mind you, the way TFC, Houston, and DC are going, they'll all be available in about a month and a half anyway.

[Edgar]

I'd say it's a pretty trustworthy source.

I was right in March about the September opponents (from the same source). See here.

However, I don't know where the match will be played (Europe/Canada).

[jpg75]

Any rumblings as to who we would play on Nov 17th?

[Edgar]

CSA are looking at European/African teams for November. If that fails, they'll get a CONCACAF opponent.

[Tuscan]

One of the African nations who made the World Cup would be a real treat. Give us Ivory Coast or Cameroon! As for Euro countries, please not Estonia or Latvia or a former Soviet state, give us Western at least...

[Sébastien]

If it was to be an African team, I wouldn't mind Tunisia. A very decent team that, I believe, is similar to many CONCACAF teams.