Future NCC format?

[kodiakTFC]

Is it possible that, assuming MLS has a complete home-away schedule, that the MLS fixtures between MTL-TOR-VAN will count as both a MLS match and their NCC match? This would shorten the schedule and give league games a greater significance. For the record, I'm not sure if this is possible, legal or even smart but I wonder if it is a possibility with such a congested schedule only getting worse.

[Scottie]

And how would Edmonton fit into such a scheme?

[Free kick]

And how would Edmonton fit into such a scheme?

Under that scenario, the games against Edmonton, would likely constitute the extra game outside the MLS schedule for each of the three MLS teams. I could see that happening. If the Cnd MLS sides would be playing each other twice already in MLS play, you can see why the clubs might ask what would be the point of playing four times and adding to the fixture congestion.

The only cog might be scheduling. The MLS sides would have to complete their home and away matches by the beginning or middle of August. But, I am sure that could be accomodated. Or else, they could do like the US based clubs whereby CCL participation is based on previous year performance.

[foreverthursday]

Under that scenario, the games against Edmonton, would likely constitute the extra game outside the MLS schedule for each of the three MLS teams. I could see that happening. If the Cnd MLS sides would be playing each other twice already in MLS play, you can see why the clubs might ask what would be the point of playing four times and adding to the fixture congestion.

The only cog might be scheduling. The MLS sides would have to complete their home and away matches by the beginning or middle of August. But, I am sure that could be accomodated. Or else, they could do like the US based clubs whereby CCL participation is based on previous year performance.

But don't you think that the nutrilite tournament is important for the Canadian fans. I know that the games start to add up, and it falls at the start of everyone's seasons, but Canada still needs a way of determining it's one team for the CCL, and they can't do it it in NASL or MLS championships. If the Whitecaps or TFC win in MLS play then the next American team is chosen and not the Canadian one. So far the only determining facter is the Nutrilite tourney because we do not have an all Canadian league. But that adds excitement.

[Cheeta]

Suppose it's possible, and even though it's down to the CSA to decide how they go about determining a Canadian champion I don't think it would be politically doable on the domestic front to piggy-back off the MLS league schedule.

Like it or not I'm sure the second division cities (whoever they might be in the near future) would demand a stand-alone tourney for the Canadian championship and it would be hard for the CSA to justify the Canadian club championship not being "important" enough to demand a dedicated tournament.

I mean come on, how is that going to sound coming from the CSA? No matter how they spin it it's still going to come out; "We're just going to use the MLS schedule to help determine the Canadian Champions because soccer in Canada is still too small-time/Mickey Mouse to actually require a stand-alone process for determining a winner."

MLS fixture congestion is entirely of MLS' doing. If that league's priorities commands minimal allowances in their schedule for something like FIFA international dates or domestic cup competitions then that's MLS' problem and they have to live with the consequences, good or bad.

Actually think some of the fun of the Vs Cup will be lost when we get to 3 MLS teams. A big part of the charm was seeing the inter-league play, which is in large part a lot of the appeal (for me at least) of the CONCACRAP Champions League. Hopefully by 2012 we'll have more NASL teams contesting for the title. That would really spice things up.

[Sam]

I'd see this as a bit of a step backwards considering this is what the Voyageurs Cup used to be - just a mini league inside the USL instead of its own competition which makes it more important IMO. I mean lets say for example we have some situation where there is a Caps-TFC Voyageurs Cup/MLS game at BMO on the last day of the season. TFC need 3 points to win the V's Cup but only 1 to make the make playoffs, Whereas the Caps need 3 points for the playoffs and only one to win the V's Cup. If the game ends as a draw the TFC players and supporters would go crazy and clearly treat it as a win while a dejected bunch of Caps would lift the Voyageurs Cup in front of celebrating Toronto supporters who have just made the playoffs.

Freak/hypothetical situation clearly, but there are several other similar situation which would lead to devaluing the Voyageurs Cup.

[SthMelbRed]

If you started the MLS season in the third week of March and played through to the end of October, that's nearly a 7 1/2 month season. That would give (by my very quick count) 33 weekends in the season, keeping in mind, you'd lose, in a non-WC year, maybe five weekends to international breaks (if recognised). That amount of time should be sufficient to play a 34-game league schedule, six domestic cup matches, and up to 3 rounds of league playoffs. Teams that qualify for CCL would definitely looking at fixture congestion late in the season, though. I can't see anybody (fans, clubs, sponsors) accepting a national championship competition piggybacking on an unrelated league schedule at this point. It's important that the clubs are given the tools to build up their squad depth to be able to compete on all fronts so that something like this would never have to be considered.

[Mr.Caca]

I think the NCC needs its own separated games just because of the sponsors. I remember seeing some ads being hidden for the TFC-Impact games (like the Suzuki cars) while some others were new. 2 different competitions, 2 different sets of sponsors, 2 different series of games.

[narduch]

I would prefer this for next year:

A 2-round knock out tournament:

Round 1: MLS team v NASL team (2 legs) plus a random draw to decide who plays who.

Finals: Round 1 winners (2 legs).

Sure, it means less games for some teams, but it ensures there is no biatching about teams throwing matches and games not meaning anything.

[masster]

Is it possible that, assuming MLS has a complete home-away schedule, that the MLS fixtures between MTL-TOR-VAN will count as both a MLS match and their NCC match? This would shorten the schedule and give league games a greater significance. For the record, I'm not sure if this is possible, legal or even smart but I wonder if it is a possibility with such a congested schedule only getting worse.

Not possible. That would mean that all of the MLS fixtures between the Canadian teams would have to take place in the first half of the season so they could determine a winner for the start of the Champions League in July.

[kodiakTFC]

If Edmonton gets a vote, they'll certainly vote for a round robin. They want to attendance boost and want to have all the teams come through their stadia.

[Michael Crampton]

If Edmonton gets a vote, they'll certainly vote for a round robin. They want to attendance boost and want to have all the teams come through their stadia.

Which, I suspect, could only be realistically accommodated if the OP's suggestion is adopted. I don't think that'd be a step back and I do think MLS wouldn't mind scheduling all of those games earlier in the year, but it's likely the sponsorship issue that would kill the idea. MLS sponsors pay big money to be associated with the league and they're not gonna blithely accept playing second fiddle for six games because the CSA needs some cash to finance the NCC. On the other hand if some of the games are part of the league schedule that also significantly cuts back on travel expenses (and will make for some epic early season weekend games).

[TFCRegina]

Is it possible that, assuming MLS has a complete home-away schedule, that the MLS fixtures between MTL-TOR-VAN will count as both a MLS match and their NCC match? This would shorten the schedule and give league games a greater significance. For the record, I'm not sure if this is possible, legal or even smart but I wonder if it is a possibility with such a congested schedule only getting worse.

I don't like it.

I love the tournament format and I wish it were expanded. MLS is supposed to be re-instating the reserve division, which will likely bring deeper rosters and the ability to play extra matches.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

Piggybacking off of the MLS schedule would be a step backward. The existing format isn't perfect, but it just needs to be tweaked here and there as new teams enter the fold. At the end of the day, I want league and cup matches to be kept separate.

[Free kick]

I remember seeing some ads being hidden for the TFC-Impact games (like the Suzuki cars) while some others were new. 2 different competitions, 2 different sets of sponsors, 2 different series of games.

Thats a good one and one that I hadn't thought of. Indeed it is the the one who pays the piper (in this case the sponsors) who will ultimately determine how the V-cup played out. What you see at MLS games are mostly league sponsors. I highly doubt that the league will approve the Canadian Championship sponsor unless that sponsor is also an MLS sponsor. And what if a V-Cup sponsor is direct competitor of an MLS sponsor company?

[tmcmurph]

I used to think that using league games was the best idea but when others pointed out the early start to the CCL and sponsorships I realized it wasn't going to happen. After a bit of mead and rolling the ideas around I came up with this.

Vancouver will have the indoor dome in 2012 and a nicer early season climate for 2011 than Montreal. Toronto has the heated field. So start the V's Cup/NCC before the MLS season. Montreal at Toronto and Vancouver and Edmonton at Toronto and Vancouver. That takes care of 4 games making the rest easier to fit in with their league schedule.

Just an idea. Shoot away.

I just checked and MLS starts in late March which would mean TFC and the Caps would have some very meaningful preseason games to get ready for the season. It might work. Sort of like when the CFL went from 4 preseason and 16 league games to 2/18.

[kodiakTFC]

For the record...

I hate the idea. I don't support it one bit I was just very curious. I love going to NCC games and telling all my friends about the tournament and the future of soccer in this country.

[foreverthursday]

I used to think that using league games was the best idea but when others pointed out the early start to the CCL and sponsorships I realized it wasn't going to happen. After a bit of mead and rolling the ideas around I came up with this.

Vancouver will have the indoor dome in 2012 and a nicer early season climate for 2011 than Montreal. Toronto has the heated field. So start the V's Cup/NCC before the MLS season. Montreal at Toronto and Vancouver and Edmonton at Toronto and Vancouver. That takes care of 4 games making the rest easier to fit in with their league schedule.

Just an idea. Shoot away.

Not only is that brilliant, but it proves that alcohol solves all of our problems!

[Trident]

Making MLS games count as cup games would be a huge step back, and would put it on the same footing as crap like the heritage and brimstone cups, which are stupid.

Good thing it's impossible to arrange, because the CSA is stupid enough to think of it as a good idea.

[argh1]

It's the Voyageurs Cup. It's not league play. We want to decide which team represents Canada at the CONCACAF CL.

What makes the Brit FA Cups special? That it's a competition. As teams are added to the pro game in Canada add them to the competition.

We all as soccer fans rejoice when a minnow knocks off a giant. Allow this to happen.

[themodelcitizen]

It would add to the schedule a lot, but why not two separate tournaments, a knockout Open Cup reincarnation with the big teams added in the later stages, and a Voyageurs Cup league format with TFC, Vancouver, Montreal and Edmonton? (+ future USL teams) Guarantees a big team will be sent to the CCL but keeps the chance for games like FC London vs Vancouver Whitecaps (or FC London vs London City for that matter). To ease fixture congestion I don't really see a problem with having MLS games count between the Canadian teams, with the playoff system the regular season games need a bit more excitement anyways.

[Trident]

It would add to the schedule a lot, but why not two separate tournaments, a knockout Open Cup reincarnation with the big teams added in the later stages, and a Voyageurs Cup league format with TFC, Vancouver, Montreal and Edmonton? (+ future USL teams) Guarantees a big team will be sent to the CCL but keeps the chance for games like FC London vs Vancouver Whitecaps (or FC London vs London City for that matter). To ease fixture congestion I don't really see a problem with having MLS games count between the Canadian teams, with the playoff system the regular season games need a bit more excitement anyways.

Because Amateur Canadians are still a long way off of a tournament of this magnitude.

And there IS a problem with having MLS games count as cup games.

[masster]

I used to think that using league games was the best idea but when others pointed out the early start to the CCL and sponsorships I realized it wasn't going to happen. After a bit of mead and rolling the ideas around I came up with this.

Vancouver will have the indoor dome in 2012 and a nicer early season climate for 2011 than Montreal. Toronto has the heated field. So start the V's Cup/NCC before the MLS season. Montreal at Toronto and Vancouver and Edmonton at Toronto and Vancouver. That takes care of 4 games making the rest easier to fit in with their league schedule.

Just an idea. Shoot away.

I just checked and MLS starts in late March which would mean TFC and the Caps would have some very meaningful preseason games to get ready for the season. It might work. Sort of like when the CFL went from 4 preseason and 16 league games to 2/18.

It is a fair idea, but it would be a huge disadvantage for the NASL teams. Their season doesn't start until mid April and they would be ay behind in their preperations compared to the MLS teams.

[tmcmurph]

It is a fair idea, but it would be a huge disadvantage for the NASL teams. Their season doesn't start until mid April and they would be ay behind in their preperations compared to the MLS teams.

2-3 weeks wouldn't be that far behind and once Montreal joins the MLS in 2012 there may be more D2 teams other than Edmonton so getting in 4-6 games in before league play would not only make their schedule more open but it gives them better prep for their league games.

[Mr.Caca]

2-3 weeks wouldn't be that far behind and once Montreal joins the MLS in 2012 there may be more D2 teams other than Edmonton so getting in 4-6 games in before league play would not only make their schedule more open but it gives them better prep for their league games.

And Montreal could play at Olympic stadium!