Sooner better than later

[foreverthursday]

FC Edmonton seeks new stadium

By TERRY JONES, QMI Agency

Last Updated: August 26, 2010 8:01pm

Tom Fath has had an education in his first season as an owner of a professional soccer club.

Usually that means get out and run away as fast as you can, as far as you can. But that's not the case.

While the man who made his money in paving and construction may have lost something approaching $2 million on a startup season prior to FC Edmonton joining the North American Soccer League next year, he's gung-ho going forward.

But he's not going forward wearing a blindfold.

Fath has figured out that Commonwealth Stadium is too damn big and Foote Field is too damn small and that there's nowhere else to play.

"We have to have a new stadium," he said.

"Once the season is finished we're going to begin to do a lot of work toward making that happen."

Meanwhile, as will be the case Saturday evening when FC Edmonton ends the experimental season against an actual NASL team, albeit last place Miami, the games will likely all be at Foote Field.

The Edmonton Eskimos won't likely have to worry about his soccer club playing an Everton, Colo Colo or Portsmouth in international games or Toronto FC, Vancouver Whitecaps or Montreal Impact in Nutrilite Cup games in Commonweath Stadium.

Too small is better than too big, Fath has decided, even if Foote Field has football markings on the second-rate and too-narrow turf, the parking can be a problem, the area is confusing to many fans and there are only 3,500 seats.

"We're probably going to play all our games at Foote Field. We're going to find a way to put in more seating for next year. It's not the facility we need but it has a nice environment and I think we can improve that environment. We're better off to be there.

"But we need a soccer specific stadium. We knew that when we started this but we were thinking three to five years. I thought three to five years would be no big deal. But now I know that sooner is far better than later.

"The city needs a stadium between the size of Commonwealth and Foote Field and Clarke Park. We've got a lot of things to figure out. But we're starting to look at different options.

"For the long run we can't continue playing at any one of those locations."

And Fath says he's determined that this is for the long run.

He refuses to talk about the money he lost this year.

"Talking about money takes away from where we are headed," he said.

"I've looked at it the same way all year. It's an investment in the future. Finding out the quality of coaches we had available this spring was too good an opportunity to pass up. They worked out just great," he said of head coach Dwight Lodeweges and Hans Schjver from Holland.

"It's exciting to see what kind of team we're developing, especially with so many Alberta players. We know we're going to go into league play next year and even go into those Nutrilite Cup games against Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal and be competitive. We're not going to get pasted."

FC Edmonton held their own in the internationals, losing 4-3 to Colo Colo of Chile before 5,573 and losing 2-1 to FA Cup finalist Portsmouth before 8,792, with both games in Commonwealth Stadium.

The club scored a 3-0 win over the Montreal Impact reserves before 2,106 and defeated lesser league opponents Ottawa Fury 1-0 before 2,903, Victoria Highlanders 7-1 in front of 2,356 and crushed the Spokane Spiders 14-0 with 1,201 witnesses.

"It's going to be so different next year having maybe 20 games at home and maybe 16 on the road," he said of scheduled league play and affordable international games for Foote Field.

"It's going to be so much fun to have the ebb and flow of a real season. I'm looking forward to it."

So is Lodewages. And he promises Fath that his investment this year will pay off.

"I look on it from the technical side. I am a coach. In this situation this year our finish line is the first game next year. The owner decided to prepare this team the right way.

"We're going to have such an advantage.

"I know it cost money. But we have progressed so far.

"When you look at teams like Toronto FC, Vancouver Whitecaps and Montreal Impact, we're not in bad shape compared to them."

terry.jones@sunmedia.ca

[kodiakTFC]

It is great to see that the owner is committed and seems to know what he is doing. He is definitely right in saying that they need more seats, I would think that they need to aim for about 6000 people a game. Hopefully for the NCC they could bring that up to 7-8.

[Macksam]

A small 10,000 seater stadium would be nice.

[rico]

well maybe a 5,000 stadium that will be expandable to 10,000

[foreverthursday]

well maybe a 5,000 stadium that will be expandable to 10,000

I don't know about that. I say dream big. I say build 15,000 to 23,000, and make it a very nice facility. If you build it they will come.

[Cooks]

I don't know about that. I say dream big. I say build 15,000 to 23,000, and make it a very nice facility. If you build it they will come.

No they won't. Not to begin with. Start, like Rico says, with something managable and expandable to fit your needs. Create atmosphere by packing the place and have a waiting list for seats. Nothing creates a buzz like a waiting line, ask any fashionable bar.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

^^Agree with that. Ideally they should find a location where they could eventually expand to 20k but initially keep the permanent structures down to the basic dressing room and office stuff along with premium seating area maybe in the 500 to 1000 sort of range with suitable facilities for sponsors and initially use temporary bleacher seating elsewhere to get up to 5k. The time to build a permanent Stade Saputo is when the demand for it has been clearly established.

[Trident]

I don't know about that. I say dream big. I say build 15,000 to 23,000, and make it a very nice facility. If you build it they will come.

No.

A scaled down Saputo satdium might work. 8,000 Stadium, with expansion possibilities.

[foreverthursday]

If Edmonton built a skeletel arena for 8,000 and the team succeeded, then facing City Council of Edmonton again a couple of years later for a newer arena when they needed it and the council looks at them blankly and replies that they just built a new stadium a couple years back why do they need a third home in less then a decade? Maybe in other Canadian cities, but right now we are all laughing our ***es off at the Oilers Organization for wanting Edmonton to build them a new downtown stadium so that they may keep %100 of the profits. If the City doesn't think the Oilers are worth a stadium other than the one they have why would they be okay with giving FC Edmonton the nod of approval. If FC Edmonton has a modern state of the art facility that will still be modern in twenty years regardless of wether FC Edmonton is or not, and they can say that a facility like this would be good for the City of Edmonton, and of all the events a 20,000 arena can accomodate then I think that is a far supperior plan then a slapped together rinky-dink that has used up it's purpose in less then a decade.

[jedinathan]

I agree with the example of the Oilers. However, I think that if FCE comes to counsel and presents a long term plan for the stadium, it wouldn't be as hard to get funding in the long run. I look at examples like in Montreal and Toronto and feel that we should follow their lead by making an expandable stadium, but holds something in the range of 8-10,000 for regular season games, but that can expand to 12-15,000 for major events, like bringing in teams from overseas.

Just my two cents, but I think that if we plan this out right and let the powers that be know what the general plan is for the long term (10-15 years long term) then the group won't waste tons of money building something that won't be filled all the time.

[Trident]

If Edmonton built a skeletel arena for 8,000 and the team succeeded, then facing City Council of Edmonton again a couple of years later for a newer arena

no, just, no.

An expandable stadium is what we all said. Something with like 3 stands, and one empty end. So then when you expand, you build a whole end, and fill in corners and such.

So we wont be asking for a new stadium "arena", but one single plot of land that can grow with the club.

[foreverthursday]

no, just, no.

An expandable stadium is what we all said. Something with like 3 stands, and one empty end. So then when you expand, you build a whole end, and fill in corners and such.

So we wont be asking for a new stadium "arena", but one single plot of land that can grow with the club.

Alright so it can be modern and nice, but built bit by bit. A really big lego set then.

[Trax]

The best solution for the club would be to work in collaboration with the University of Alberta who desperately needs a new sporting center and the city of Edmonton to either renovate Foote field of build a brand new 5000 seat stadium that could be expended to 10000 stadium/sporting facility.

Why that number, well it seems that the average attendance so far would be able to fill that quite well, and there might be room to spare. Of course the idea would be to be able to expend it if need be.

Stadiums such as the one's at University of Montreal with Cepsum stadium and Centenial stadium at the University of Victoria are examples of stadiums that could host this NASL team.

UofM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEPSUM_Stadium

UVic

http://www.hostingbc.ca/content/university-victoria-centennial-stadium

All and all, that’s a nice idea, but at the end of the day it will come down to whether Edmonton Fc does well in its first year at Foote field, whether the UofA has the interest and money to invest in such a project, and whether the idea is financially viable!

All the way from Verdun, Québec, Love to see soccer develop in the country!

[jedinathan]

I agree that this is the best option for a "quick fix" in Edmonton currently, but I don't see it being a long-term option for the organization. The only way that Foote Field will increase its seating capacity will be through temporary seats, or the University footing (no pun intended!) the bill for extensive renovations. I think that the University is facing quite the cash crunch right now, as through out the summer there have been news reports of the U firing staff to cut costs just to keep facilty around. I think the best option for the organization is to build its own soccer specific statium so that FCE doesn't have to deal with requests from the University to uncover football markings and deal with other field requests. The soccer season will run into the beginning of the university football season, which could create more conflict than it has this summer. Also, the markings are horrid on the field. I know watching the last game online, it was impossible to tell where the boxes were, as all you could see were the hashmarks for football. I'm also not sure about the University needing a new sporting center. Foote Field is only 9 years old, and is in pretty good condition from what I've seen of it. Its not commonly used by the public either, which suggests to me that the facilities are still in good condition (unlike the public gym and pool that the University has on the main campus).

That being said, I believe that it would be best for FCE to be based out of Foote Field for several years (2-3 max) to establish itself and start to become more of a fixture in Edmonton. It would allow for a proper soccer stadium to be built, and it wouldn't be a rush job that would have to be fixed or torn down too soon.

Great to see the support and interst in our soccer team from all the way accross Canada!

[rico]

well a smaller stadium will be better so it looks full if we get a big stadium its going to look empty!

I think the team will do good next year the last game against Miami we had to deal with the Eskimos and the Capitals playing that day

[Macksam]

I didn't want to start a new thread, but I was thinking the other day about this topic. If Canada wins the bid for the 2015 World Cup, we would most likely need three or four more 15-20 000 seater stadiums. This is where the FC Edmonton ownership group could lobby and ask for their city to get a new stadium.

[Tuscan]

I'm sorry but when it comes to pro footy in Canada, it HAS to be played with a more cautious approach. Remember we aren't dealing with the sport that has basically defined Canadian sporting culture. Soccer just doesn't have the ability to generate revenue like hockey does, so I don't think a "build it and they will come" attitude can be used. They need to go with a max 10,000 seater that is built well and expandable to 15-20k to host a Nats game and other large events. (ooh this was legit until Nats and Big Event were used in the same context )

[foreverthursday]

I'm sorry but when it comes to pro footy in Canada, it HAS to be played with a more cautious approach. Remember we aren't dealing with the sport that has basically defined Canadian sporting culture. Soccer just doesn't have the ability to generate revenue like hockey does, so I don't think a "build it and they will come" attitude can be used. They need to go with a max 10,000 seater that is built well and expandable to 15-20k to host a Nats game and other large events. (ooh this was legit until Nats and Big Event were used in the same context )

I believe that soccer in North America has been build it and they will come. Sure it comes and goes in phases and large chunks but each new chapter is bigger and more successful then the last. People usually mock dreamers and visionaries. Strange but I would have expected a bunch of Canadian soccer nuts to fill that role a bit better.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

An example of an expansionable footy stadium would be stadium:mk in Milton Keyes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadium:mk

[yomurphy1]

^ Build it well and they will come. I truly believe with an owner willing to put their money into a stadium and a professional product, any Canadian city could support a strong team.

[Razcle]

^ As long as they don't jack the prices as TFC have tried to do. We all have seen the results of this. However I do agree with your statement, but it is important to build a culture around the team and grounds or we will see what has happend to the traditional MLS teams in the US happen here. I hope it never gets that way. I also hope that my small region of KW, Ontario gets a CSL team that I can get behind and grow the game as it has grown overseas. **Back to the original topic and away from my daydreams

[Macksam]

I'm sorry but when it comes to pro footy in Canada, it HAS to be played with a more cautious approach. Remember we aren't dealing with the sport that has basically defined Canadian sporting culture. Soccer just doesn't have the ability to generate revenue like hockey does, so I don't think a "build it and they will come" attitude can be used. They need to go with a max 10,000 seater that is built well and expandable to 15-20k to host a Nats game and other large events. (ooh this was legit until Nats and Big Event were used in the same context )

I didn't bump this thread to continue the debate about what size the stadium should be. I'm talking about using the 2015 Women's World Cup bid to Edmonton's advantage.

^ Build it well and they will come. I truly believe with an owner willing to put their money into a stadium and a professional product, any Canadian city could support a strong team.

Yeah, it's about putting out a professional product first and foremost.

[alberta white]

An example of an expansionable footy stadium would be stadium:mk in Milton Keyes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadium:mk

Intrestingly that stadium is the home of the Only francised club in England, and whilst the original Dons (AFC WIMBELDON) are plowing up the division, the MKDONS stagnate in League One.

Still the Stadium IS a cracker and as such is listed in the FA's Bid documents for FIFA 2018. It is however in a market where football is king.

Having worked in architecture for the best part of 20 years I would offer this solution.

Firstly, build a Main Granstand complete with corperate and media facilities, but ensure the main AV vantage points (TV Cameras) are across the field looking towards the seating. As we have seen on many a NASL webfeed, 'aint nothing worse than looking at a barren empty backcloth. I would project that the Main stand should accomodate 3000 to 5000, with a provision to expand backward by 50% minimum. It would also be easier to sell your product to a broadcaster when the stadium looks full.

Secondly, prepare the remaining perimeter with below ground services capable of accomodating the additional seating and hospitaly requirements (washrooms and concessions) as and when the cost/demand equation is appropriate.

Thirdly and most importantly Ensure the city council get to see the whole picture. Not only the big fancy final drawings of the 10-15K stadium with the covered roof and the fancy walk through 3D videos, But also the staged nature of the Project. That been the presentation that says,

"Hey city council this is what were going to build first, and then when that's paid for were going to build phase two, on the ground we prepared on the other side of the field and when we host the nationals and the 2015 WWC, we can put up the end terraces, but its all on the same parcel of land so we wont need to come back cap in hand for further approvals, Oh and by the Way, just wait until you see the big curvy (MANDEL) roof in five years time. "

In that way the overall concept and hopefully the overal concent is grant, albiet in a phased model.

City council people the world over love to stand behind capital Projects (perticulary if they dont have to spend the electorates money). But they will a run mile if they think they are putting their names behind a dud or white elephant.

Put it this way. If your a (or the) councillor in the Ward where the stadium is been built. would you like to cut the ribbon of a usable stadium that is still been developed or sign up to a project that may not be operating until you are potentially out of office?

In short I'm with Yomurphy1 on this. Build it good and build it clever and if necessary built it over time, just as they hope to build the club.

[jedinathan]

"Hey city council this is what were going to build first, and then when that's paid for were going to build phase two, on the ground we prepared on the other side of the field and when we host the nationals and the 2015 WWC, we can put up the end terraces, but its all on the same parcel of land so we wont need to come back cap in hand for further approvals, Oh and by the Way, just wait until you see the big curvy (MANDEL) roof in five years time. "

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA so true... stupid overpriced art gallery....

[foreverthursday]

The NASL finally submitted a bid with eight teams! Atlanta and Minnesota were the two additional teams. I am unsure what will happen to Baltimore and St. Louis but I would rather see them move down to the USL Pro then fold. I also hope a new investor starts up the Austin Aztex now that the team was ripped away from it's fans. The Aztex could be a good rivalry with San Antonio.