De Guzman

[superbrad]

So I've managed to watch a few TFC matches this year and in those matches - as well as the last few Canada matches I've see JDG play - he looks off. Excuse me if this has been discussed earlier - but WTF is wrong with JDG? He was the marquee Canadian player. He came from one of the most elite leagues in the world. Obviously the Spanish scouts were seeing something and thats why he couldn't get another contract there.

Every game I see he is very forgettable. Is he injured, unmotivated or (I don't like saying this), not as talented as we previously thought? I don't think the latter because I've seen him absolutely control a game. But having said that...

And then I see DeRo - who I thought was winding down, and the guy is a stud. Very much a great (MLS) player.

Paul James gave JDG a '6' last game and made the following comments...

"Great work ethic and again he always made himself available for the ball which cannot be discounted as an important contributing factor for TFC’s style of play. However it is when he is in possession which is the problem. Not as effective as he should be which is disappointing."

I ask you Toronto folks what is wrong with the guy?

[Guest Ed]

Two months ago I would have agreed with you but he seems to finally be settling into TFC and I think he has been superb in the number 6 role for the past month or so. Are you watching old replays??? He covers a lot of the field and his defensive positioning is excellent. He got an 'ooooh' out of the crowd for a subtle move to get out of trouble last night. I would say his game is back.

PJ has never liked Julian so discount his rubbish.

[squizz1402635577]

I can't help but think that he's still injured, but is playing through it. As terrible a prospect as this is for Canada, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes under the knife once Toronto's season is finished.

/obligatory pessimism

[RS]

Two months ago I would have agreed with you but he seems to finally be settling into TFC and I think he has been superb in the number 6 role for the past month or so. Are you watching old replays??? He covers a lot of the field and his defensive positioning is excellent. He got an 'ooooh' out of the crowd for a subtle move to get out of trouble last night. I would say his game is back.

PJ has never liked Julian so discount his rubbish.

+1

[loyola]

I think a 6 for yesterday game is fair for JDG. A 7 would've been OK as well.

While I agree with the fact that JDG is playing better now then 2-3 months ago I still think he isn't a DP and that he still could do better. For a #6 you need to avoid those cheap giveaway in the middle and IMO JDG is too often guilty of that. Often he is lucky to be bailed out by his defense when he loose the ball right in the middle of the park.

He isn't as bad as early in the season but I expect more from him.

[El Hombre]

I agree with Ed and Rudi. I think Julian's been really good recently.

My take on it is this: When I watched him play with Depor, he was really good. I think that was partly because he was playing with very talented teammates (no disrespect intended to TFC). If you watch him with TFC, he's one of the few players out there who's always making himself available for a pass. This is a very underrated skill. However, when he gets it, he has no options himself because a number of his teammates aren't getting themselves open in return. This then leads to turnovers.

I will admit though that for the last half of last season and a bit of this season, I was worried as well. I remember watching him dribble through 2 or 3 Real Madrid players a couple years ago, and I think I was expecting that every game for some reason. Now when I watch TFC, I'm no longer worried that he's lost a step. As Ed mentioned, I think he's starting to really settle in quite nicely.

[Karam]

Even at the beginning of the season when he was off, his movement was superb and you could tell he has more quality than most MLS players. The team is getting used to him now and he's getting used to the team, his form's gonna improve even more by the time the playoffs come around (fingers crossed).

Give Mista another week or two and TFC will have two of the best technical players in the league who can affect games.

[L.T.]

The "better talent around him" argument has been trotted out many times for de Guzman. To me that says as much about how people overrated his play abroad as it does about his current form.

Yes - he did play with better players, meaning he wasn't the 'Go-to Guy'. One would expect that a player like that would not be the focus of the opposition's defensive scheme and that with the talent he has, simply 'making himself available' would result in some useful play.

Now that he is here - a DP, in the centre of midfield with all play going through him - he is in an unfamiliar situation for a typical Canadian player abroad. He is a key component in maintaining possession and the creation of offense.

He struggled because of this change... but because of his talent level, he is adapting.

Contrary to those that feel this step down will hurt his play with the National Team, I think this is great for our near term prospects. Not only for de Guzman, but with guys like Nana and Cann playing huge minutes in important games (rather that reserve matches overseas), it bodes well for our level of preparedness for the pressure of WC qualifying.

This is something I've pointed out before - http://onsoccer.ca/?id=2271 (pre-TFC) - and I still believe it - It is a HUGE difference being a cog on a mid level team vs THE cog on a mid/low level team.

[tmcmurph]

One obvious (to me anyway) improvement in JDG's game as of late is that he has Santos, Mista & others getting open and receiving his passes in a controlled manner. This is not basketball where one super player can carry a team. Look at how Messi looks with Barca then look at how he looked with Argentina in the WC. Without Xavi, Iniesta et al he looked substantially poorer than he did at his club. The surrounding cast were no slouches but they were not the level he needs to shine. JDG is looking better as the skill level around him improves.

[SeanKeay]

Deguzman was great yesterday, a nice calming influence in moments where we needed to be calmed down. After watching myself in a hissy fit durring the spurs/young boys match and seeing Palacios on the field and then watching Deguzman about 4 hours later. I found myself saying a few times, seriously id rather have Jules then Palacios on the field for Tottenham.

Obviously the competition is different and such, but the touch and the possession that jules keeps on the field is just incredible. Which is his job, his job is also to spread the ball around the field and he has done that at a fairly successful rate. Sure he isnt grabbing the game by the balls and making runs past 3-4 men, but thats because if he does lose the ball there is no one to track back behind him.

Julian is not Superman, but he a very good technical player.....

[Gian-Luca]

With respect to giveways, I've noticed that 99.9% of the times when De Guzman gives the ball away is when he's trying to make an offensive pass - a through-ball to spring open a teammate. Perhaps because he didn't have to do that much playing as a d-mid all those years in Europe means it's a strength he's not properly developed. He looked great last night playing in his more familiar position, constantly shutting players down, making himself available for passes out of the back and being the link man between offense and defense. The second TFC goal actually started with De Guzman cutting out a Mexican pass. I certainly don't agree at all with the mark Paul James has given him, but I would be inclined to have him play the d-mid role for Canada and for us to see what our new Portugese signing (ie. Pacheco) can do in the offensive-mid role as he seems more suited for that role.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

I've always thought De Guzman has always been a great player, he has flaws as he isn't a perfect player, but he is IMO one of the top Defensive Mids in the CONCACAF.

JDG up in front of the back 4 in a roaming duty can be very effective. He should not be relied upon to be the creative playmaker through the upper half of the pitch though, Mista and DeRo with the help of some wide players should handle those duties. JDG should just be getting to those players or settling it down for his back four.

[jonovision]

From a Canada NT perspective the biggest question is how best to utilize both JDG and Atiba Hutchinson, two similar players, in the same midfield. Hutchinson is probably the more versatile of the two, but with his current club is used in a central holding role. These are two of Canada's most talented players, but one will need to play a somewhat attacking roll if they are both deployed at the same time.

[JamboAl]

I think De Guzman's role is different from what we have expected his role to be when he joined TFC. He can be creative but I think his role now is to hold the ball and even provide an outlet for the defenders. I also thought he controlled the ball rather well last night.

[El Hombre]

From a Canada NT perspective the biggest question is how best to utilize both JDG and Atiba Hutchinson, two similar players, in the same midfield. Hutchinson is probably the more versatile of the two, but with his current club is used in a central holding role. These are two of Canada's most talented players, but one will need to play a somewhat attacking roll if they are both deployed at the same time.

This is going a bit off topic, but is that necessarily the case? With both Atiba and JDG in front of the back four, wouldn't that allow the wingers to push up more? A bit of a different formation, but it give us a more defensive presence in the middle of the park and it might work as they both have the skill to move it out of the back effectively without delegating one as creative and the other as destroyer. Just spitballin'. Others know far better than I as to whether this would work.

[Razcle]

I hate to point out that the original poster and all of the negative commentary in this thread have come from V's who are no where near Toronto. I can't comment on how many games they have been to live, but there is no way you are getting the whole picture when you are watching from a far.

Yesterday JDG looked fantasic in close proximity where 80-90% of MLS player would have lost the ball he was able to keep it tight and get out of the jams. I am happy to have him on the team as he appears to be a class up in terms of skill level to the majority of guys. I hope that if given more time his play will improve even greater than what we say last night.

[gator]

I was at the match last night and JDG was nothing short of superb IMO! In the second half when Cruz were pressing he was just reading the plays and cutting everything out and distributing the ball well! It doesn't always work out for him and it can be frustrating as a fan to watch but if played in the proper role (D Mid) he is a very good player! I hope that Hart uses him in front of the back 4 as opposed to the attacking role that he has played for the MNT!

[Mazha]

Obviously something's or most everything is working. So why are we questioning ????

[superbrad]

One - I don't think he is playing 'bad'. I just see that he is playing to his full potential/talent. Two, I believe two years ago he was a different player, with Deportivo and when he played with the MNT. Of course the dynamics change with different coaching, different teammates etc.

Is he worth the DP status and salary? Is he playing to full potential? I'm not so sure at this point. His role as I see it with TFC and the CMNT is to be that controlling midfielder who always coordinates the distribution of the ball. He does do that but as someone else pointed out in this thread he has been known to lose possession from time and again – perhaps in the aim of generating offence. As Razcle pointed out – I and others are nowhere near TO and have to watch on TV. You can’t always see and hear everything and we don’t get the same media coverage. Is he the same player as he was two years ago? Is he rumored for injury? I don’t see anyone saying that he is at the top of his game.

[Ivan]

I was at the match last night and JDG was nothing short of superb IMO! In the second half when Cruz were pressing he was just reading the plays and cutting everything out and distributing the ball well! It doesn't always work out for him and it can be frustrating as a fan to watch but if played in the proper role (D Mid) he is a very good player! I hope that Hart uses him in front of the back 4 as opposed to the attacking role that he has played for the MNT!

+ 1

[Free kick]

The "better talent around him" argument has been trotted out many times for de Guzman. To me that says as much about how people overrated his play abroad as it does about his current form.

Yes - he did play with better players, meaning he wasn't the 'Go-to Guy'. One would expect that a player like that would not be the focus of the opposition's defensive scheme and that with the talent he has, simply 'making himself available' would result in some useful play.

Now that he is here - a DP, in the centre of midfield with all play going through him - he is in an unfamiliar situation for a typical Canadian player abroad. He is a key component in maintaining possession and the creation of offense.

He struggled because of this change... but because of his talent level, he is adapting.

Contrary to those that feel this step down will hurt his play with the National Team, I think this is great for our near term prospects. Not only for de Guzman, but with guys like Nana and Cann playing huge minutes in important games (rather that reserve matches overseas), it bodes well for our level of preparedness for the pressure of WC qualifying.

This is something I've pointed out before - http://onsoccer.ca/?id=2271 (pre-TFC) - and I still believe it - It is a HUGE difference being a cog on a mid level team vs THE cog on a mid/low level team.

Completely agree. And I might add: I think the the expectations some had were based moreso on the fact that they grossly underrate the level and calibre of the league. I still recall a comment that someone made here, at the time of his signing, that he "would dominate in MLS". As if MLS is league of 12 year olds. I knew that that wasn't going to be the case. But i knew that he would be a very good player who can make an impact. Nobody is going to dominate MLS.

I also agree in that non of our overseas players are counted on to be "Go to guys" and that shows and posses a problem when they come back to play for the MNT.

[Michael Crampton]

The "better talent around him" argument has been trotted out many times for de Guzman. To me that says as much about how people overrated his play abroad as it does about his current form.

Yes - he did play with better players, meaning he wasn't the 'Go-to Guy'. One would expect that a player like that would not be the focus of the opposition's defensive scheme and that with the talent he has, simply 'making himself available' would result in some useful play.

Now that he is here - a DP, in the centre of midfield with all play going through him - he is in an unfamiliar situation for a typical Canadian player abroad. He is a key component in maintaining possession and the creation of offense.

He struggled because of this change... but because of his talent level, he is adapting.

Well said L.T. You've managed to precisely explain the feeling I've had for quite a while. My only frustration is that I remember the 2007 Gold Cup when Julian was without doubt "The Man" on a Canada team that played some really great football for a few weeks. I thought he'd be able to bring that level of influence back much more quickly.

[JoshieScores]

Well said L.T. You've managed to precisely explain the feeling I've had for quite a while. My only frustration is that I remember the 2007 Gold Cup when Julian was without doubt "The Man" on a Canada team that played some really great football for a few weeks. I thought he'd be able to bring that level of influence back much more quickly.

I hope so... The main reason for his success in Deportivo (especially 2007 - 8 season when he won the player of the year) was his ability take the ball from his defence and quickly distribute to his attacking options with his vision and technical ability. So far this season with TFC, he's been wildly inconsistent and although his first touch as been solid but he seems to be giving up the possession way too easily or not linking up properly.

I think he's still adjusting to MLS and perhaps the league may be too physical for his talent.

[Sam]

When I watch Julian play for TFC I just don't see the same player that played during the 2007 Gold Cup and in Spain with Deportivo. I even though Julian looked much better in the 2009 Gold Cup than he has for TFC.

I know a lot of Toronto fans make the argument that he has adjusted his game to MLS. And yes, he is clearly an above average MLS player and a key part of TFC's midfield. Defensively he's looked sharp over the last few games, but he just doesn't have that same midfield presence going forward. I remember seeing him play against Costa Rica at BMO Field in 2007 and it may have been the single best performance I've ever seen from an individual Canadian MNT player. He was all over the place winning tackles, and starting counter attacks by moving the ball forward quickly. During that 07 stretch with Canada it seemed he never let a pass astray and he did move the play forward quickly.

With Toronto he can break up the play, but that next step just isn't there. He gives the ball away far too often and he rarely makes that killer pass. This is what I loved about his play with Deportivo in Spain. Sure he was a holding midfield, but he was a major part of that team going forward. For me he isn't a major part of TFC going forward. Sure he is much better moving forward than Sanyang or Saric, but I still feel like there is something missing. As has been pointed out he has looked better the last few matches and maybe he will find that offensive threat as the season comes to a close, I just haven't see it yet.

[gator]

^ I think the 07 Gold Cup really distorts peoples' perception as to what kind of player JDG is! He had a great offensive tournament actually scoring goals and setting up some others! Historically that's not the type of player he is and I think it hurt Canada in the last WCQ when he was asked to play that way! TFC has found that he is far better playing in front of the back four and starting attacks from there! I personally hope that Hart recognizes that and plays him in a proper defensive position!