And now, for #20...

[Free kick]

Not really. 6,000 isn't the same as 50,000

Thats a little over stated. Thats stadium seated 38K according to reports. Does Honduras even have 50K seat satdium

And according to reports there were 8 K. But did you note what was happening in the background during the TFC game? I saw:

1) a fire in the stands,

2) Fire crackers going off

3) Riot squad posted behind the nets with glass shields

4) flashes from the stands.

5) Fencing all around teh ground.

6) a referee who seemed intimated and made some incredible favourable calls to the Hondurans. maybe more so that what we saw whne canada played there

Don't know about you, But I call that a hostle environment. It did not look look like a place for soccer moms

[Free kick]

Thats true. especially about the preparation. Coaching I am not so sure, we went in there with Yallop as coach and I am sure that he might have gone in ther wilth his MLS teams who incidently had some pretty good runs.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

Thats a little over stated. Thats stadium seated 38K according to reports. Does Honduras even have 50K seat satdium

And according to reports there were 8 K. But did you note what was happening in the background during the TFC game? I saw:

1) a fire in the stands,

2) Fire crackers going off

3) Riot squad posted behind the nets with glass shields

4) flashes from the stands.

5) Fencing all around teh ground.

6) a referee who seemed intimated and made some incredible favourable calls to the Hondurans. maybe more so that what we saw whne canada played there

Don't know about you, But I call that a hostle environment. It did not look look like a place for soccer moms

I never said it wasn't intimidating. I just pointed out it's not "the exact same" like you initially claimed it to be.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

What does that tell you about our Euro based players? It tells me that Garber is spot on.

There has been an ongoing tendency on this board to massively overrate the quality of certain smaller European leagues relative to what happens in CONCACAF.

Note his choice of identifying player "not playing full time" in the Scandinavian Leagues.....

I suspect he was probably referring to players like Joseph Lapira, who have played at a level in Scandinavia that is not "full-time" as in full-time professional, and who only practice a couple of times a week in the evenings in contrast with MLS where they would have had the benefit of full-time training every weekday morning. I think the normal terminology for an American would be "not a regular starter" if he were referring to players who are usually on the bench during games.

[finchster]

A second team in NY would be good....but I still do agree they need to get a proper team in the South Atlantic, be it Atlanta or Florida somewhere. Obviously those areas have a poor history supporting professional soccer though. Put a team in NY and you'll be able to get 15000 plus depending on location (NOT outback New Jersey!).

Putting a MLS team in Florida would be a disaster. I urge everyone to look at all of the attendance records for every professional sports team in Florida. With the exception of the Orlando Magic, no team in Florida draws well.

NHL Attendance Rank. Percentage of Capacity and Rank 2009-10

Tampa Bay 21st, 78.4% 26th

Florida 25th, 78.9% 25th

NBA 2009-10

Miami 15th, 90.5% 15th

Orlando 17th, 100% 3rd

MLB 2010 (thus far)

Tampa Bay 23th, 51.8% 24th

Florida 29th, 51.7% 25th

NFL 2009

Miami 19th, 89.8% 27th

Jacksonville 30th, 73.9% 31st

Two MLS teams already failed in Florida, Miami and Tampa Bay. They had weak attendances and both teams were dropped from the league. Florida is more of a college sports/ NASCAR kind of place, professional sports of all kinds simply do not draw well. Hell, most seasons the Miami Hurricanes football team will out draw the Dolphins. I think Don Garber learned well from the past and if I was a commissioner for any North American Sports league I would avoid Florida at all costs.

I assume the Heat will draw well this upcoming year however

[Macksam]

Putting a MLS team in Florida would be a disaster. I urge everyone to look at all of the attendance records for every professional sports team in Florida. With the exception of the Orlando Magic, no team in Florida draws well.

NHL Attendance Rank. Percentage of Capacity and Rank 2009-10

Tampa Bay 21st, 78.4% 26th

Florida 25th, 78.9% 25th

NBA 2009-10

Miami 15th, 90.5% 15th

Orlando 17th, 100% 3rd

MLB 2010 (thus far)

Tampa Bay 23th, 51.8% 24th

Florida 29th, 51.7% 25th

NFL 2009

Miami 19th, 89.8% 27th

Jacksonville 30th, 73.9% 31st

Two MLS teams already failed in Florida, Miami and Tampa Bay. They had weak attendances and both teams were dropped from the league. Florida is more of a college sports/ NASCAR kind of place, professional sports of all kinds simply do not draw well. Hell, most seasons the Miami Hurricanes football team will out draw the Dolphins. I think Don Garber learned well from the past and if I was a commissioner for any North American Sports league I would avoid Florida at all costs.

I assume the Heat will draw well this upcoming year however

To their defense, Tampa Bay Lightning use to draw well to.

[Alex D]

^when they won the stanley cup.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

Yeah, Florida is not a Pro sports state, in fact most southeren states are not big into Pro sports they are all huge NCAA fans and Nascar.

The Florida soccer connection is just racist to be honest, people think Florida, Caribbean and Latino's so soccer must get some attention there.

They would have more success trying to get the Islanders to be a MLS team than starting one in Florida.

It will be interesting to see how the Heat draw this season with the Three Stooges joining up there. Though I feel it will be an utter failure as well.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

Racist?? Miami had the highest World Cup tv ratings of any city in the US for both English AND Spanish broadcasts.

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/media_entertainment/world-cup-reaches-one-third-of-all-u-s-tv-viewers/

Garber's desire to return to Miami isn't just some idea pulled out of his backside. TV ratings for soccer are very strong in Miamii and keep getting stronger.

[finchster]

Racist?? Miami had the highest World Cup tv ratings of any city in the US for both English AND Spanish broadcasts.

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/media_entertainment/world-cup-reaches-one-third-of-all-u-s-tv-viewers/

Garber's desire to return to Miami isn't just some idea pulled out of his backside. TV ratings for soccer are very strong in Miamii and keep getting stronger.

Don't you think TV ratings are a bad way to judge fan interest? There is a huge difference between the casual fan who will watch it on TV and the fan who will go out to a game. Miami FC consistently have the lowest attendance in the second division. Some cities simply will not support a second tier level sport especially when they are the size of Miami, but most soccer teams have failed there and most sports teams are not successful in attendance. Tv ratings are nice but favour the casual fan, the majority of evidence supports that Miami is a terrible place for a professional team of any kind.

[foreverthursday]

Don't you think TV ratings are a bad way to judge fan interest? There is a huge difference between the casual fan who will watch it on TV and the fan who will go out to a game. Miami FC consistently have the lowest attendance in the second division. Some cities simply will not support a second tier level sport especially when they are the size of Miami, but most soccer teams have failed there and most sports teams are not successful in attendance. Tv ratings are nice but favour the casual fan, the majority of evidence supports that Miami is a terrible place for a professional team of any kind.

there is one massive hurdle for the american southeast that none of you have mentioned yet. it is f^*king poor. ghetto, ghetto, slum poor. no money. what my wife and i make in edmonton would render us mansion owners in any city limits south of virginia. f^*K, i remember seeing young people so obese they needed those meat wagon scooters or walkers just to be mobile. the only way you could convince those "americans" to be paying soccer fans, is to have their pastors tell them jesus wants them to be. but jesus is too busy running the republican party, and trying to kill all them thar muslim sand n****rs. 'merica, f^*k yeah!

[yomurphy1]

^ WTF?? We are discussing the prospects of the 20th MLS team. This is not the place to spew ignorant and xenophobic language.

[foreverthursday]

^ WTF?? We are discussing the prospects of the 20th MLS team. This is not the place to spew ignorant and xenophobic language.

*laughs* I do hate the states being as I am an American, but I was correct in the fact that you want to put markets and franchises where you can compete. Selling tickets for six dollars while offering a gas voucher for ten dollars and all you can eat soda and hot dogs seems like a financial slide straight to bankruptcy.

I am suprised that no one here thought about the economics of it at all. It (soccer) could be very popular. It (soccer) could be extremely popular, but you need financial support, and a lot of it. Right now everything is falling to pieces in the american southeast. And these economic distasters, and massive market fallout aren't causing any short term hope for a turn around either. Hence me calling it a ghetto.

[bettermirror]

Putting a MLS team in Florida would be a disaster.

Ya, let me clarify. They need a team down there. But it won't succeed. They need a team in somewhere like St. Louis or Minnesota as well.

[bettermirror]

I was in Tampa in November - Florida is a ghetto. He's quite right. There are exceptions, as always, but overall...

[finchster]

Ya, let me clarify. They need a team down there. But it won't succeed. They need a team in somewhere like St. Louis or Minnesota as well.

I understand the goal is to have national appeal and thus get a big national television contract like the NFL. Problem is the MLS is not on secure financial footing to support another big loss market. Last year apparently Seattle and Toronto were the only teams that made money. The MLS is a gate driven league their primary goal should be to put teams in cities that can support the teams, until many teams make money or at least break even. I think this was part of the reason MLS decided to expand to Vancouver and Montreal, Toronto has turned a profit every year. No other MLS team can say that, except Seattle .

[foreverthursday]

I understand the goal is to have national appeal and thus get a big national television contract like the NFL. Problem is the MLS is not on secure financial footing to support another big loss market. Last year apparently Seattle and Toronto were the only teams that made money. The MLS is a gate driven league their primary goal should be to put teams in cities that can support the teams, until many teams make money or at least break even. I think this was part of the reason MLS decided to expand to Vancouver and Montreal, Toronto has turned a profit every year. No other MLS team can say that, except Seattle .

You are completely correct, but none of the teams are bleeding severe amounts of money anymore either. The last three years have seen a complete rebirth for the MLS, and I think the reason for the "losses" are the teams trying to build their own stadiums, and facing that initial debt. That is a guess of course, but the league average game is 20,000+ and becoming more popular by the year.

[Grizzly]

You are completely correct, but none of the teams are bleeding severe amounts of money anymore either. The last three years have seen a complete rebirth for the MLS, and I think the reason for the "losses" are the teams trying to build their own stadiums, and facing that initial debt. That is a guess of course, but the league average game is 20,000+ and becoming more popular by the year.

The league average attendance is 16,668. http://www.mls-daily.com/2010/03/2010-mls-attendance.html

[foreverthursday]

The league average attendance is 16,668. http://www.mls-daily.com/2010/03/2010-mls-attendance.html

my mistake grizzly. I actually got that number from a post on these forums. I looked and looked for it to make a link, but I couldn't find it. I shouldn't have quoted a number without making a quick google search first.