Okay... the 2010 World Cup is over...

[redhat]

How the hell did El Salvador (which was almost suspended) and T&T get ranked ahead of us?

[Blackdude]

Ususally they have their pots. And to be 9th is the worst place to be. It is important for Canada to get to at least that 8th place ASAP. We don't know when Jack will choose the rankings. 8th is really good if you want to be in a good pot. If we can get into Pot B, I'm pretty sure they will make it to the double square.

[Lurker]

This following site projects us 5th in CONCACAF by next May 2011 (the guesstimate for the rankings to be used by the draw, only because that's the month that was used for the 2010 draw):

http://www.football-rankings.info/2010/06/2014-fifa-world-cup-seeding-for.html

So probably not time to panic...

[TOcanadafan]

The CSA need to take it upon themselves to ask CONCACAF for a definitive explanation on how the seedings will be done and which rankings will be used. If this explanation is not forthcoming in a reasonable amount of time or is not satisfactory, we need to get FIFA involved and/or the CAS in Switzerland, if necessary. What happened to us last time was so overtly corrupt it makes me want to spit. And nobody seems to be doing anything about it. It absolutely must NOT be allowed to happen again.

Agreed. I often wonder if the CSA lobby is non-existent at the CONCACAF / FIFA level?

[Sam]

How the hell did El Salvador (which was almost suspended) and T&T get ranked ahead of us?

They both made the hex...

[TOcanadafan]

I feel, realistically, we need to look ahead to 2018. The MNT program needs to concentrate its efforts on our youth teams, with the goal of qualifying for the next U-20 World Championship and then getting out of the group stages beyond that. We have dipped to a new low in the past few U-20 cycles after the quarterfinal appearance in 2003, managing only a draw in 05, automatic qualification when we hosted in 07 leading to 0 GF and no points, and then not qualifying for '09. Performance at this level can be a predictor for future success at the senior level for non-traditional powers - look at the rise of Chile and Uruguay, the improvement of Ghana. We should be fearful of Costa Rica regaining a stronghold as #3 in the region as well (they made it to the semis in 09).

[Unnamed Trialist]

I feel we need to play in a style that compensates our limitation. Why not? After all, about two thirds of the teams at the WC did it, they were negative, cautious, they did not play above their heads. You get results that way, it is not always pretty but it gets you there. And that is what we want.

As some have posted, Canada has to go back to being really tough defensively. If we don't have the keeping or backs to ensure this, then the mids have to get involved. We don't have a world class striker but could score on set pieces, on individual plays. So work on those. As I see it this is our only chance, to turn into a real b-itch of a team, a tough team that opponents hate to play, hard-nosed. If you play like that they you hope the talents come through here or there.

So it's all coaching as I see it. Call up who will do the job, impose a terribly tough system with a hefty midfield supporting up, back and to the sides, and hope for a break with an up and coming keeper, a couple strong central defenders, and one striker on a roll.

But going to be tough, for me the HEX would be a big step up, and not at all an easy step to take as we stand now.

[Macksam]

I feel, realistically, we need to look ahead to 2018. The MNT program needs to concentrate its efforts on our youth teams, with the goal of qualifying for the next U-20 World Championship and then getting out of the group stages beyond that. We have dipped to a new low in the past few U-20 cycles after the quarterfinal appearance in 2003, managing only a draw in 05, automatic qualification when we hosted in 07 leading to 0 GF and no points, and then not qualifying for '09. Performance at this level can be a predictor for future success at the senior level for non-traditional powers - look at the rise of Chile and Uruguay, the improvement of Ghana. We should be fearful of Costa Rica regaining a stronghold as #3 in the region as well (they made it to the semis in 09).

No, we can make it this time around as well. It's not out of the realm of possibility. As for our youth, I don't think it's at an all time low. I mean, we beat Mexico and were winning against Costa Rica before losing the game 2-1. Who knows, maybe we could've made it to the semis if that scoreline had stayed 1-0.

[Time_for_2014]

Can't wait to start this WCQ again...I still have in mind the Canada-Honduras game in MTL....God I just hope we have more CDN fans to our games

[canucklefan]

Can't wait to start this WCQ again...I still have in mind the Canada-Honduras game in MTL....God I just hope we have better CDN players on the field

Fixed.

[Sam]

We need to stop saying the future looks bright and maybe we'll qualify in 2018... that's a helluva long time away. Start the young kids now and go for it. Look at Germany in the World Cup, that was a team 4ish years away from it's potential best and they were a goal away from a World Cup final. The ironic thing is I believe if England had an Ozil, a Mueller or a Khedira on their books they wouldn't have started for the exact reason of the same "next time around" mentality being thrown around on this thread. Give the kids a chance now and 2014 is not out of the question.

[TFCRegina]

We need to stop saying the future looks bright and maybe we'll qualify in 2018... that's a helluva long time away. Start the young kids now and go for it. Look at Germany in the World Cup, that was a team 4ish years away from it's potential best and they were a goal away from a World Cup final. The ironic thing is I believe if England had an Ozil, a Mueller or a Khedira on their books they wouldn't have started for the exact reason of the same "next time around" mentality being thrown around on this thread. Give the kids a chance now and 2014 is not out of the question.

In our Confederation, the next world cup cycle is always in reach. We just need the chips to fall where they benefit us. It's not that Canada is particularly undertalented. I'd put us on par with four of the six teams that made the Hex last cycle, but we seem to just be unable to convert talent into wins. Hopefully playing against a higher skill level in friendlies will lead to more success in the Gold Cup and World Cup Qualifying. Force the players to raise their play against big teams and then pitch them against weaker teams, so everything seems to move that much 'slower' for them. If you're used to playing top notch teams, playing against the likes of Honduras or Costa Rica is a lot easier.

[StartingEleven]

In our Confederation, the next world cup cycle is always in reach. We just need the chips to fall where they benefit us. It's not that Canada is particularly undertalented. I'd put us on par with four of the six teams that made the Hex last cycle, but we seem to just be unable to convert talent into wins. Hopefully playing against a higher skill level in friendlies will lead to more success in the Gold Cup and World Cup Qualifying. Force the players to raise their play against big teams and then pitch them against weaker teams, so everything seems to move that much 'slower' for them. If you're used to playing top notch teams, playing against the likes of Honduras or Costa Rica is a lot easier.

Agreed with both of the above posts, on another note pertaining to this subject... isn't the hex or qualifying for 2014 being changed to better reflect the South American system of qualifying? At least thats what I've been reading…

http://www.concacaf.com/page/ConfederationDetail/0,,12813~2046674,00.html

[CanadianSoccerFan]

Agreed with both of the above posts, on another note pertaining to this subject... isn't the hex or qualifying for 2014 being changed to better reflect the South American system of qualifying? At least thats what I've been reading…

http://www.concacaf.com/page/ConfederationDetail/0,,12813~2046674,00.html

That was rumoured early on but it's looking more likely to be three group stages with 4 team groups in each stage. The Honduran media and ESPN Deportes reported the final stage being two groups of 4 as opposed to a big group of 8. I'd prefer a final group of 8 but that would push the total game count to 26.

[TOcanadafan]

In our Confederation, the next world cup cycle is always in reach. We just need the chips to fall where they benefit us.

No, we can make it this time around as well. It's not out of the realm of possibility. As for our youth, I don't think it's at an all time low. I mean, we beat Mexico and were winning against Costa Rica before losing the game 2-1. Who knows, maybe we could've made it to the semis if that scoreline had stayed 1-0.

The "let the chips fall" mentality is the major problem with our program. And we also say that "we were close" too often. The results (or lack of them) speak for themselves. We need to put the majority of our resources into our youth teams and system, and then once we have found consistent success at that level, we can continue to nurture these "winners" at the senior level.

For the next cycle we should choose our strongest squad, and if some younger players are the most talented, then we should include them, but we have to be careful. If we think a startegy of "throwing them to the wolves" and hoping that the experience gained by playing at the senior level will create success, then we are being foolish. Germany is successful at integrating younger players into their senior squad, because these younger players have been winners at every youth level (U17, U19, U21). These are the beneficial experiences that our young players need, not to be capped at the age of 17 into our senior squad so that they will gain experience. Only recently has England started to take U21 and U19 seriously, and they will reap the rewards down the road. Still, not all the English clubs are on board to support their U19 and U17 programs (not releasing players for these games), but at least that may be improving as well. Only by building a solid foundation will we be able to see success at the top.

[TFCRegina]

The "let the chips fall" mentality is the major problem with our program. And we also say that "we were close" too often. The results (or lack of them) speak for themselves. We need to put the majority of our resources into our youth teams and system, and then once we have found consistent success at that level, we can continue to nurture these "winners" at the senior level.

For the next cycle we should choose our strongest squad, and if some younger players are the most talented, then we should include them, but we have to be careful. If we think a startegy of "throwing them to the wolves" and hoping that the experience gained by playing at the senior level will create success, then we are being foolish. Germany is successful at integrating younger players into their senior squad, because these younger players have been winners at every youth level (U17, U19, U21). These are the beneficial experiences that our young players need, not to be capped at the age of 17 into our senior squad so that they will gain experience. Only recently has England started to take U21 and U19 seriously, and they will reap the rewards down the road. Still, not all the English clubs are on board to support their U19 and U17 programs (not releasing players for these games), but at least that may be improving as well. Only by building a solid foundation will we be able to see success at the top.

No matter how much we pour into youth system, it's going to be for naught without professional and semi-professional clubs running academies and first teams. It's going to be at least a decade before the TFC, Whitecaps FC and Montreal Academies are consistently pumping quality youth players into the system on a regular basis. If we're going to qualify in 2014, we need to focus the resources on the current players we have at the Senior team level. No matter how much we put into the lower level youth teams, it's meaningless if they're not operating in a professional training environment.

The amateur system will not develop players we need for our national program in the next 4 to 8 years, we've seen this in the past.

Do we need more money for the youth system? Yes, but keep it in the context that the vast majority of training and development is done at the club, not the national camps.

[TFCRegina]

One other thing. A way they can improve the youth system at the Amateur level is by hiring coaches at the provinces and the CSA from Europe with high level coaching qualifications. Grab continental coaches, and have them train coaches for the amateur programs over here. We need more knowledge transfer to our Amateur level.

But again, the majority of development will be done at clubs, not the national program.

[TFCRegina]

Just thought of another things:

The Pro clubs are going to need to extend their academies down pretty much to the bottom of the age groups if they're going to produce quality players consistently. Development needs to start young. TFC, Whitecaps FC and Impact will all need their academies operating teams down to the bottom of the age pyramid.

[TOcanadafan]

No matter how much we pour into youth system, it's going to be for naught without professional and semi-professional clubs running academies and first teams. .

Agreed. The role of pro clubs and academies is essential. But I am talking about what can be done with the national teams. It's not meaningless to put money into the youth teams if these youth players are playing in pro club set ups (Canadian or European) which many are at this point. And it will be great when the pro clubs grow larger in Canada and our pool expands. I just see it as a waste to throw ALL of our resources to a senior team that does not have the depth or quality to produce results.

[StartingEleven]

That was rumoured early on but it's looking more likely to be three group stages with 4 team groups in each stage. The Honduran media and ESPN Deportes reported the final stage being two groups of 4 as opposed to a big group of 8. I'd prefer a final group of 8 but that would push the total game count to 26.

Not sure the Honduran Media is going to scoop CONCACAF… but an 8 team final round seems like the way to go IMO anyway. A larger group always has the best teams at the top, you can't just win a couple games and be in the final round or a contender for a WC spot, which really has been the case for years now.

[Macksam]

The "let the chips fall" mentality is the major problem with our program. And we also say that "we were close" too often. The results (or lack of them) speak for themselves. We need to put the majority of our resources into our youth teams and system, and then once we have found consistent success at that level, we can continue to nurture these "winners" at the senior level.

For the next cycle we should choose our strongest squad, and if some younger players are the most talented, then we should include them, but we have to be careful. If we think a startegy of "throwing them to the wolves" and hoping that the experience gained by playing at the senior level will create success, then we are being foolish. Germany is successful at integrating younger players into their senior squad, because these younger players have been winners at every youth level (U17, U19, U21). These are the beneficial experiences that our young players need, not to be capped at the age of 17 into our senior squad so that they will gain experience. Only recently has England started to take U21 and U19 seriously, and they will reap the rewards down the road. Still, not all the English clubs are on board to support their U19 and U17 programs (not releasing players for these games), but at least that may be improving as well. Only by building a solid foundation will we be able to see success at the top.

There's a lot more to it than that. The German U19 and U21 players have been playing regularly in the Bundesliga. The English u21 players can't get the same shake in the prem due to clubs investing in cheap foreign talent rather than spending the time to properly blood the youth.

Agreed. The role of pro clubs and academies is essential. But I am talking about what can be done with the national teams. It's not meaningless to put money into the youth teams if these youth players are playing in pro club set ups (Canadian or European) which many are at this point. And it will be great when the pro clubs grow larger in Canada and our pool expands. I just see it as a waste to throw ALL of our resources to a senior team that does not have the depth or quality to produce results.

They can produce results. It's not a waste.