NCC Game Day 5 - Montreal Impact vs. Vancouver Whitecaps

[youllneverwalkalone]

There seems to be a lot of disappointment and trash talk in this thread with most Caps supporters pretty quiet on both fronts. I'm a little surprised because I saw Montreal field a good squad and play a good match on their home ground. We hadn't defeated them in 7 matches and I'm not sure why everyone would expect that to change without a top notch performance. Obviously that wasn't given, but I don't think Vancouver played that badly. The new Toure looked dangerous, the old Toure looked dangerous, and the backline looked very solid with Nolly looking MLS quality to me. Bily goal was really well taken and he if I thought Mo Johnstone actaully watched soccer matches, I would suggest he should be a target for TFC. Congrats to Toronto, the team played well, but I really wouldn't get too cocky as I don't think they are very far ahead of either of their rivals. I guess we can't all be so lucky as to have fantastic connections at the world powerhouse club FK Skonto, but I still suspect much of the talent on the pitch last night will be alive and well in MLS and Vs Cup in the next couple of years.

[jonovision]

Almost fully agree with what you said above. But:

Bily goal was really well taken and he if I thought Mo Johnstone actaully watched soccer matches, I would suggest he should be a target for TFC. .

Forrest was right on, if a bit timid, in his criticism of Nolly on this play. It was a well struck shot, but it was right at where Nolly should have been if he was in proper position on the play. He totally lost his net, and ended up covering only the 6 feet nearest the near side post. If he had been near the centre of the net he would have had a chance to save the shot.

[RS]

Then what? Vancouver sends their women's team? Seriously. I'm actually pretty surprised by the guy's comment, usually people with positions that high have a lot more intellect.

To be clear, the tweet said that some Academy players may be involved next week (emphasis mine). They still have to clear it with the proper authorities (NCAA being one, as their new rule on allowing pros to play alongside amateurs is still muddied at the moment).

I don't see the problem with it, if it happens. Some of the better performing Academy kids would get to play in front of the largest crowd in their young careers, and the fans get to see some of the prospects in action against better opponents than the CSL has to offer. It would also show the Academy kids that there is a very tangible link between their side and the first team.

[yomurphy1]

PB also said to look for new names to be added to the roster for Wednesday. I'd love to see some of the academy guys.

Van fans, what's the story behind Doudou? The kids got potential.

[youllneverwalkalone]

To be clear, the tweet said that some Academy players may be involved next week (emphasis mine). They still have to clear it with the proper authorities (NCAA being one, as their new rule on allowing pros to play alongside amateurs is still muddied at the moment).

I don't see the problem with it, if it happens. Some of the better performing Academy kids would get to play in front of the largest crowd in their young careers, and the fans get to see some of the prospects in action against better opponents than the CSL has to offer. It would also show the Academy kids that there is a very tangible link between their side and the first team.

I won't take it personally as Stewart, REB, Gage have all played in the competition and are not far remove from our academy. Even Haber is only 20. While Dobson said this Toure kid is only 18.

With Sanchez, Akloul and Steele all coming in (presumably in hopes of a CCL run) and getting injured, it looks Teitur himself did a 180 to see what the kids could do. Marlon James was fit enough to play last night, yet he went with Stewart & Haber, and then brought in Toure Jr.

[Vic]

Forrest was right on, if a bit timid, in his criticism of Nolly on this play. It was a well struck shot, but it was right at where Nolly should have been if he was in proper position on the play. He totally lost his net, and ended up covering only the 6 feet nearest the near side post. If he had been near the centre of the net he would have had a chance to save the shot.

"Jurgen Klinsmann scored his first goal in the four matches since he returned to Spurs to seal a 1-0 victory at White Hart Lane against West Ham. David Ginola provided the opportunity after he brushed off the challenge of Samassi Abou on the left and crossed low to the near post, where Klinsmann nipped in front of Rio Ferdinand to slot the ball past goalkeeper Craig Forrest." [who was covering 6 feet nearest the near side post]

[Blue and White Army]

My concern is with how the CSA awarded the cup, something which the donors had no control over.

What did you honestly expect? Until recent years, the only decent ownership group in Canadian club football was in Montreal. Toronto was under the Toronto Lynx Babysitting Service of Nicole Hartrell, and the Whitecaps were financially unstable until Greg Kerfoot took over the club. Do you think that three USL clubs with poor overall ownership would have been willing to play six extra matches - and more importantly, pay the related airfare and hotel costs?

Your the type of supporter that would do anything to keep Canadian Soccer an old boys club for a select few, angry at any attempt to grow the sport beyond the tiny minority of hardcore supporters.

Honestly, if you think the opinion of TFCRegina, or me, or anybody else thats "new" is somehow less than yours, because you made one measily donation, then let me tell ya something...

...

Every doner has a reason for why they donated, what was your reason? Was it to support the game? Or was it to stroke your ego?

First of all, I wasn't a Voyageurs Cup donor. I was a skint student at the time. But I appreciate the adversity, time and effort that Voyageurs went through back in the day - a piss poor CSA, crap club ownership, etc. There was no proper cup tournament, so the supporters stepped up and made one. I respect that - greatly. Others apparently do not.

You are mistaken - I do not want Canadian football to remain an "old boys club". I am glad that there are new people supporting Canada, joining the Voyegeurs, posting their opinions on the Voyageurs board, supporting TFC, etc. Those are all very good things, and both Vancouver and Montreal will be dependent on such new people in order for their future MLS presences to be a success. Everyone's opinions are equal; there is no hierarchy or elitism here. Feel free to express your opinions at any time.

But as a long-time supporter of Canadian football, I do get annoyed when new people express all sorts of ignorant drivel - and I have the right to call b*llsh*t when I see it. If it took MLSE to start up a shiny new football club before you and others chose to start supporting football in Toronto, that's your call - but DO NOT piss on the efforts of those who struggled through the dark days before you had new clubs, new stadiums, and new cup competitions laid out on a silver platter for you to enjoy.

Whether you like it or not, Montreal is Canada's most successful football club - their city's name is etched on the Voyageurs Cup for seven successive years. You can ignore victory number six (when TFC wasn't involved in the Vees Cup) if you like, but that doesn't take away from Montreal's five consecutive victories - all of which involved a club from Toronto.

Saying that those pre-NCC victories were somehow less worthy than NCC victories is idiotic at best. Just because there wasn't a separate tournament, and that USL league matches also counted as Vees Cup matches, doesn't devalue those Voyageurs Cup victories - at all. All the clubs went into those matches knowing that they had "double" value.

And besides, even today, most qualifying spots for the CONCACAF Champions League are won through regular league/playoff play - not a separate cup tournament. Just south of us, in the USA, three of their four sports don't involve a separate cup tourney. So why piss on the pre-NCC Voyageurs Cup? It's ignorance, and I for one am happy to point it out!

Newbies are always welcome to post on here, and I enjoy hearing their opinions - it can be a refreshing change from the "old boys club" that you mention. But when newbies piss on the efforts of the old, such as attempting to devalue the pre-NCC Voyageurs Cup, or new TFC fans who like to lecture Vancouver and Montreal supporters on what proper fandom looks like, I call b*llsh*t. This is how so many of the new TFC fans earned the term "plastic" - it doesn't just mean "new", it means that they also act in an arrogant and obnoxious manner, lecturing on subjects that they often have a shocking ignorance about.

[RS]

Whether you like it or not, Montreal is Canada's most successful football club - their city's name is etched on the Voyageurs Cup for seven successive years.

Odd aside: When I presented the Voyageurs Cup to Jim Brennan last year, there were no names etched on it. Apparently Montreal felt so highly about winning the Cup all those years that they didn't even bother engraving their name on it.

The names are etched on it now, though.

[Lord Bob]

I also once read here, though I'm not sure it's true, that the Impact actually lost the carrying case the donors got with the Cup.

[DJT]

My concern is with how the CSA awarded the cup, something which the donors had no control over.

To be clear, the Voyageurs, not the CSA, awarded the cup from 2002 to 2007, which is why the head-to-head league results were used, ie. we had no choice since we couldn't organize additional games ourselves. The CSA has awarded it only since 2008.

[teddym]

Wow. I want my money back and I watched it on cable. I even want my 90 minutes back. God was that awful.

I know it was hot and humid but if Sebrango can hustle for that long, why couldn't most of the Caps with the apparent "MLS-ready visa" already stamped in their passports?

To think that Nash is MLS quality is purely laughable. Some of the Caps aren't of a decent D2 calibre even, if we are being totally honest. Just move the bulk of the squad to Edmonton and be done with them, I'd say, and start fresh next year. (And yes, Vancouver would be blessed to have Rob Friend on the squad, like a friggin gift from the heavens.)

Argghhh...Montreal had absolutely NOTHING to play for and still made the Caps look like THEY were the ones with nothing to play for.

Haber on an EPL squad? League 1 would really be pushing it. He is doing nothing - creating nothing, positioned poorly most of the time (for this level of play, this calibre of teammates and opposing defenders, at least), and then taking over Gbeke's childish routine of hands in the air, accusational looks and dropped shoulders after his constant futility. Since Stewart (who didn't have his best game) and even Dou Dou ( seriously where do they name these guys?) show so much industry, so much hustle off the ball, it makes me wonder if they shouldn't field the residency for the next league game to send a message to the established vets.

Makes the rest of the season a bit of a drag, if you ask me, and what a pity, as some meaningful matches against noteworthy opponents obviously would have been a great way to generate some new interest around these parts.

Apart from the occasional TFC success story, when you look at the past stretch of diabolical U-20 showings, the massacre in BA, and how terrible the Impact and Caps are, it really almost sets new lows for Canadian soccer fandom. Now all we need to do is lose 3-0 to Venezuela and the month with be complete.

Apologies for the rant. We now return to regularly scheduled squabbling already in progress.

Good rant, I enjoyed it, especially the part about Haber.

[teddym]

Having watched most of these games now I feel really sorry for Whitecaps fans. My heart goes out to you guys. Hang in there though, you'll be in heaven soon enough.

'Heaven' defined as the basement of MLS West division.

[bgnewf]

A Modest Proposal For The Voyageurs Cup - 2011 & Beyond

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2010/05/a-modest-proposal/

A Modest Proposal to re-jig the future editions of the Voyageurs Cup Tournament for the Canadian Championship. Comments always welcome.

--------------------------------------------------

Without a doubt there has been controversy surrounding the format for the Voyageurs Cup Tournament since its inception three years ago. Vancouver Whitecaps fans have felt aggrieved for two years now, none more so than of course in 2009... Slightly less so in 2010, but aggrieved nonetheless.

The format of the competition since inception is six matches in total played home and away for each club, with the clubs playing three games each in total to decide the winner on points (or additional tie breakers such as head to head, goal difference, etc.). In the past two seasons Montreal has been eliminated before going into their last game and this of course has been the point of contention, especially on the left coast.

In the Canadian Soccer Association's defence it would be hard to come up with any other format involving three teams that did not potentially lead to this sort of eventuality, especially with league form being so important to teams trying to make a profit. However there is light on the horizon, and that light is coming from northern Alberta in the form of FC Edmonton. Edmonton will be launching a D2 club next season, playing at the same level that Vancouver and Montreal currently play at. With four professional clubs playing in North America's top two divisions (MLS and USL/NASL) now the opportunity presents itself to re-jig the Voyageurs Cup tournament to make it bigger and better in years to come. And it is very easily accomplished.

Here is what I propose for 2011, 2012 and beyond.

2011

• Toronto FC, as Canada's only 2010 MLS club, and 2010 Champions, are seeded first in the 2011 pool
  
• Vancouver or Montreal are seeded second or third respectively based on their order of finish in the USL/NASL regular season
  
• FC Edmonton, as the newcomers, are slotted into the fourth position

Toronto would play FC Edmonton in a home and away series with the first game in Edmonton and the deciding match played in Toronto. Vancouver and Montreal would do the same and whichever team finished ahead of the other in 2010 would get the second game at home. The winners of these two match-ups would play a one game, winner take all, Championship match at BMO Field, the home stadium of the 2010 Voyageurs Cup Champions.

2012

• The Vancouver Whitecaps or Toronto FC are seeded first or Second in 2012 based on their respective finishes in the 2011 MLS regular season
  
• FC Edmonton or the Montreal Impact are seeded third or fourth respectively, again based on league standings in 2011
  

The tournament would run in the same five game fashion as 2011, with the final being held in the stadium of the 2011 Cup Winner.

2013 and beyond

By 2013's edition of the tournament there will be three MLS clubs in Canada. Assuming one of them (due respect Edmonton) is the 2012 champion, then that club gets to play the D2 club. The other two MLS sides would play each other home and away for the right to make it to the Championship game. If other D2 clubs (Ottawa, Hamilton, Victoria, etc.) are established in years ahead then they can play a round robin for the right to be the D2 qualifier for the final round of the tournament.

One might take issue with how I chose to set up the seedings and I am sure that there are many models out there to choose from. However I feel that the overall structure of the tournament makes a whole lot of sense. Six games is about as big a tournament that these teams can reasonably fit into their already busy schedules. My proposal cuts that by one game to five, and most importantly creates something that I think would be the best thing to happen to Canadian professional Soccer since MLS came north, and that would be the establishment of an Annual National Championship Game.

The single game final is to me the attractive model for both the committed and non committed Canadian Soccer fan. Purists would liken it to the Champions League or World Cup Final and be familiar with the model. Casual fans would be attracted to a format (a single game final) that would be as familiar to Canadian sports fans as the Grey Cup is.

Sponsors would be more likely to get behind this tournament and television ratings would undoubtedly rise. Canadian Soccer has the chance here, if done correctly, to build upon the first three years of the Voyageurs Cup and use it as a springboard to get Canadian club soccer further into the Canadian sports mainstream, a place where our beautiful game definitely belongs!

Comments are always welcomed and appreciated.

[masster]

Honestly, I have a lot of respect for old school Voyageurs given their dedication for a poor brand of soccer for so long... but give me a break! Your the type of supporter that would do anything to keep Canadian Soccer an old boys club for a select few, angry at any attempt to grow the sport beyond the tiny minority of hardcore supporters.

Honestly, if you think the opinion of TFCRegina, or me, or anybody else thats "new" is somehow less than yours, because you made one measily donation, then let me tell ya something...

...Since this whole thing is about money for ya... TFCRegina and I coulda easily split (just the two of us) to purchase the same trophy and donate it ourselves!

In the end, its not about money, but clearly, it is for you if you think your tiny share makes you so much more important than the rest of us. Every doner has a reason for why they donated, what was your reason? Was it to support the game? Or was it to stroke your ego?

I was not around when the V's Cup started, but for TFCRegina to discredit the multiple championships won by the Montreal Impact prior to the Nutrilite tournament ****s on the history of the trophy that his team is now the Champion of. Regardless of who paid for it, we should be celebrating the fact that the Voyageurs did something special before the CSA came on board.

It has nothing to do with new people or old people. Just because the format was different in determining who was awarded the trophy, does not mean Montreal were not Canadian Champions. And when/if the format changes again next year, does that me these past 3 seasons don't count? Of course not!

[dyslexic nam]

I like the idea of a seeded format versus a stright east-west format since the latter would never allow a Tor-Mtl final game. Seeding based on league affilation and standing seems to be fairer (it rewards the top team), less repetitive (as someone else pointed out, you could pretty much pencil in Van for the West final slot for a while), and more likely to result in a final featuring the best two teams.

The only thing I would really diasagree with is the idea that when more D2 teams enter the mix, they should all be grouped into a round robin for a single playoff spot against the MLS "superpowers". The last 3 years of the V-Cup has shown that there isn't a huge gulf in class between MLS and D2 sides, so I think it would be unfair to assume that only the very best of the D2 bunch would have any kind of legitimate chance of beating MLS-callibre opposition.

I also think that a D2 round robin qualifier would run counter to the fact that for the last three years, Mtl and Van (the D2 teams) have been on a level playing field with TFC for the purposes of determining the V-Cup. One of the exciting things about open cup competitions is the idea that lower level teams can raise their game on special occasions to beat the big boys. I think it would diminish the magic of such a competition if the opportunity to have these David vs Gioliath matchups were limited to a single slot due to the structrure of the competition. It might work if there were only two D2 teams, but beyond that I think it would be doing a disservice to the D2 teams to have such a top heavy seeding structure. If we get a number of D2 teams in addition to the 3 MLS reps, the cup should be structured in such a way as to maximize their exposure and their opportunity to battle the big boys.

[masster]

Van fans, what's the story behind Doudou? The kids got potential.

I watched the PDL game a couple of weeks back when he scored 2 goals against Abbotsford. He was the best player on the pitch. He has the talent but it is raw. When I saw that he did not make the trip to Germany with the rest of the residency guys, I figured Teitur wanted to keep him around with the first team. But for him to get his first action last night in such a crucial situation was very surprising, especially considering that he came on ahead of Marlon James and REB. It will be interesting to see how he is used the rest of the year.

[masster]

I have no problem with the tournament format and I don't want to see it changed.

[bgnewf]

I have no problem with the tournament format and I don't want to see it changed.

With due respect, it has to change. Next season there will be four clubs in the tournament. That means using your choice the current format there will be I think nine tournament games to schedule and the issue that has aggrieved Vancouver fans so much continues, namely the likelehood that there will be more meaningless games late in the tournament deciding the outcome for other clubs.

[Guest Ed]

Honestly, I have a lot of respect for old school Voyageurs given their dedication for a poor brand of soccer for so long... but give me a break! Your the type of supporter that would do anything to keep Canadian Soccer an old boys club for a select few, angry at any attempt to grow the sport beyond the tiny minority of hardcore supporters.

Honestly, if you think the opinion of TFCRegina, or me, or anybody else thats "new" is somehow less than yours, because you made one measily donation, then let me tell ya something...

...Since this whole thing is about money for ya... TFCRegina and I coulda easily split (just the two of us) to purchase the same trophy and donate it ourselves!

In the end, its not about money, but clearly, it is for you if you think your tiny share makes you so much more important than the rest of us. Every doner has a reason for why they donated, what was your reason? Was it to support the game? Or was it to stroke your ego?

You twats can get your own cup but by the look of things would have a hard time spelling 'Cup' correctly, let alone 'Voyageurs', so pls leave the engraving to a pro.

[masster]

With due respect, it has to change. Next season there will be four clubs in the tournament. That means using your choice the current format there will be I think nine tournament games to schedule and the issue that has aggrieved Vancouver fans so much continues, namely the likelehood that there will be more meaningless games late in the tournament deciding the outcome for other clubs.

As Canadians, we should want the best team representing Canada at the CCL. League tables determine the best team. Knockout format competitions do not. In 2009, it was Montreal's performance, not the tournament schedule that aggrieved me.

[Blue and White Army]

'Heaven' defined as the basement of MLS West division.

In case you need reminding:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Major_League_Soccer_season#Standings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Major_League_Soccer_season#Standings

[Grizzly]

With regards to Bignewfs proposed format, I really dislike formats that advantage the big, higher league teams and that despite that Montreal will be one of the big teams in 2012. If the big teams are that much better than the smaller ones then they should be winning the tournaments based on merit not on unfair formats. In fact, if anything I prefer a format that puts them at a bit of a disadvantage and makes them work for their victories like in many European Cups where the bigger team has to play in the smaller team's stadium which also does a lot to help fund the smaller teams that need the money. Don't know that with 4 teams we need to change the format but when teams are added, I suspect that giving small low budget teams like Edmonton a couple of well attended games will do more for Canadian soccer than giving the MLS clubs another gate similar to the ones they already get in MLS. The biggest benefit of the Voyageurs Cup may be making it more likely that teams are established and survive in cities other than the big 3 Canadian cities.

[RS]

You twats can get your own cup but by the look of things would have a hard time spelling 'Cup' correctly, let alone 'Voyageurs', so pls leave the engraving to a pro.

So not the Montreal Impact organization, then?

[RS]

In case you need reminding:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Major_League_Soccer_season#Standings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Major_League_Soccer_season#Standings

Don't worry, you'll get your turn.

[Blue and White Army]

Don't worry, you'll get your turn.

Tell that to Seattle!