Calgary NASL

[Cooks]

No, not yet...sorry, but we in cowtown are anxiously looking north hoping that the Edmonton incarnation will fly, because success up there could bring opportunity down here.

Having said that, rather than sit on our hands and wait, the best thing we can do is be proactive and lay the groundwork for any future ownership, so that they have a plug n' play, turnkey operation (at least in a number of respects).

Club name, logo, location, season ticket fanbase, marketing, etc. - all the little things that can cause initial friction between ownership and potential die-hard fans can be taken care of by those very fans who will fill the seats.

I've created a Calgary FC forum at: http://www.freeyabb.com/calgaryfc to get the ball rolling. This is also a replacement for the forum that we used for the AMSL that mysteriously vanished last year.

I'll also fire the first salvo here by proposing that Calgary's representative in the NASL be called Calgary Spurs FC and have a logo something like this:

Forgive the '08 - I did it a while back.

I look forward to the debate and getting in touch with the Calgary regulars again.

Cheers.

[bettermirror]

I was thinking about this today. Van, Mtl, TO, and Edm all with pro teams. Need Victoria, Ottawa, and Calgary to make 7 - and an 8th wherever we can get it! Quebec? Winnipeg? Hamilton or Toronto? NASL, USL, or MLS. Doesn't matter which league, really. Just get those 6-7-8 teams in Canada. All with youth academies.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

I was thinking about this today. Van, Mtl, TO, and Edm all with pro teams. Need Victoria, Ottawa, and Calgary to make 7 - and an 8th wherever we can get it! Quebec? Winnipeg? Hamilton or Toronto? NASL, USL, or MLS. Doesn't matter which league, really. Just get those 6-7-8 teams in Canada. All with youth academies.

agreed, maybe London, Halifax, Regina or Moncton as well.

[tmcmurph]

Spurs? Na.

What is Calgary known for throughout north america? The stampede. We even made it on the MASH tv show where Winchester was complaining about his ruined hat "it looks like it was dragged through the Calgary Stampede". People may not know where Calgary is or what the stampede is but they are linked in their minds. So lets use that name recognition. I humbly propose:

Stampede City FC

As to where can we play we could try the Stampede grounds. It seats 12,000 and is already built. Since the horse races left there is only 1 month that it can't be used for (setup, stampede, take down). It is off the downtown core, right on the c-train line. We might have to do artificial turf but the Limonta / GeoSafeplay stuff isn't too bad.

Would be sweet. Thanks for kicking this off Cooks. I stink at art so I will leave the logo to others who have talent in that area. I would recommend a color scheme that is NOT red. Too much of that in Calgary already, hard to differentiate ourselves. Black and Gold?

[Keano]

Spurs? Na.

What is Calgary known for throughout north america? The stampede. We even made it on the MASH tv show where Winchester was complaining about his ruined hat "it looks like it was dragged through the Calgary Stampede". People may not know where Calgary is or what the stampede is but they are linked in their minds. So lets use that name recognition. I humbly propose:

Stampede City FC

As to where can we play we could try the Stampede grounds. It seats 12,000 and is already built. Since the horse races left there is only 1 month that it can't be used for (setup, stampede, take down). It is off the downtown core, right on the c-train line. We might have to do artificial turf but the Limonta / GeoSafeplay stuff isn't too bad.

Would be sweet. Thanks for kicking this off Cooks. I stink at art so I will leave the logo to others who have talent in that area. I would recommend a color scheme that is NOT red. Too much of that in Calgary already, hard to differentiate ourselves. Black and Gold?

But Spurs does have a rodeo/cattle driving connotation. Seen next to the name Calgary, I even thought of that meaning before the fact that there' a major Euro soccer club with that name.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

Spurs make total sense to me (you know the things on cowboys boots)

It doesn't have to makes sense on a global scale just Nationally I think it is failry straight forward.

Stampede City sounds a little retarded.

[Cooks]

The Stampede grandstand...now that's thinking outside of the box. I'd never considered that. The stands are handy, but they'd never touch the infield or the stockyard (or the stage where the Young Canadians strut their stuff).

I could be swayed to black and gold (black gold - nice touch). That happens to be the colours of my beloved Alloa Athletic FC (who just missed promotion to the Scottish First Division by goal differential - I'm very sad right now). They traditionally wear a black and gold hooped jersey that is quite sharp (their nickname is the Wasps). I'll play around with some of the colours.

[bettermirror]

Black and Gold would also be a nice switch from the typical black/red that Calgary teams use.

You'd only have Columbus wearing "similar" colours in yellow/black at or near that level - off top of my head.

Speaking of "hoped-for" NASL/USL teams....any discussion of Toronto Lynx ever moving back up? (speaking of yellow and black)

[leftcoastkicks]

Why must there always be a soccer ball in our logo ideas? Do NHL teams need to have a puck in every logo, or a pointy ball in every CFL/NFl logo, etc.? Ditch the balls already! We know, we know, it's a soccer team, we get it.

[Jason]

There was some potentially good news for soccer fans in Calgary this week. Calgary has won the right to host the Canadian Track and Field Championships in 2011 and 2012. The 2012 meet will be the Olympic qualifier for 2012, so it's a pretty high profile event. The venue is going to be Foothills Athletic Park, the home of the late Calgary Storm. The city is putting in $2 million to renovate the facility. Not sure the exact nature of the improvements, but anything would help. Even if they just improve seating and the press box and add restrooms that would be a start. I doubt that it will be anywhere near a NASL level facility (and it will have a track) but it likely will be better than anything we have in the city right now.

Jason

[Cooks]

Why must there always be a soccer ball in our logo ideas? Do NHL teams need to have a puck in every logo, or a pointy ball in every CFL/NFl logo, etc.? Ditch the balls already! We know, we know, it's a soccer team, we get it.

I tried to make the ball look like a spur. That's why it's there. Smaller leagues tend to have the equipment in the logo for brand recognition (think of virtually every National Lacrosse League logo or a tonne of minor league baseball teams).

BTW there are hockey sticks on seven of the NHL logos, and footballs do make appearances on NFL and CFL logos (ask our friends from Winnipeg and Montreal). Just saying.

[alberta white]

I tried to make the ball look like a spur. That's why it's there. Smaller leagues tend to have the equipment in the logo for brand recognition (think of virtually every National Lacrosse League logo or a tonne of minor league baseball teams).

BTW there are hockey sticks on seven of the NHL logos, and footballs do make appearances on NFL and CFL logos (ask our friends from Winnipeg and Montreal). Just saying.

Manchester Uniteds Crest has Footballs supporting the upper and lower Banners. Birmingham city have football in their shirt badge, and Leeds United's White rose has a ball in the centre. If its good enough for them etc...

Anyway after Montreals' confirmed departure form the NASL, its probably time for another Canadian team to step up to the Plate, Why not calgary?

Soccer is best, with three in the West (yes i know....sorry)

[Cooks]

There was some potentially good news for soccer fans in Calgary this week. Calgary has won the right to host the Canadian Track and Field Championships in 2011 and 2012. The 2012 meet will be the Olympic qualifier for 2012, so it's a pretty high profile event. The venue is going to be Foothills Athletic Park, the home of the late Calgary Storm. The city is putting in $2 million to renovate the facility. Not sure the exact nature of the improvements, but anything would help. Even if they just improve seating and the press box and add restrooms that would be a start. I doubt that it will be anywhere near a NASL level facility (and it will have a track) but it likely will be better than anything we have in the city right now.

Jason

The changes will be going deeper than that if the Calgary Sport Council gets their way. The interim remediation of the existing track and the soccer fields is the first phase. Then there will be changes the likes of which Calgary has not seen in a while.

Here's the concept plan for the Foothills Athletic Park: http://www.calgarysportcouncil.ca/images/stories/Image/athletic_park_master_plan/athletic_parks_concept_plan7.pdf

They said that the indoor track and field stadium would house a FIFA regulation soccer pitch (about bloody time).

I think that one of the two pitches could have stands build around them (seeing as they would be wiping the two fields that I had in mind for twin arenas).

[alberta white]

The changes will be going deeper than that if the Calgary Sport Council gets their way. The interim remediation of the existing track and the soccer fields is the first phase. Then there will be changes the likes of which Calgary has not seen in a while.

Here's the concept plan for the Foothills Athletic Park: http://www.calgarysportcouncil.ca/images/stories/Image/athletic_park_master_plan/athletic_parks_concept_plan7.pdf

They said that the indoor track and field stadium would house a FIFA regulation soccer pitch (about bloody time).

I think that one of the two pitches could have stands build around them (seeing as they would be wiping the two fields that I had in mind for twin arenas).

We done guys! Calgary may well have a Suitable soccer stadium before FC Edmonton at this rate!

Obviously Edmonton wouldn't go for a major athletics event as we now have a Public Stadium with a running track that is no longer any good for track and field, as the turf is inappropriate for the field sports/....Oh hum. And oh yes! the Fringe and the Folk festive got knocked back for funding as the Council spent all the money on the Commowealth Field Turf and the Indie. Oh hum...again.

[ted]

Club name, logo, location, season ticket fanbase, marketing, etc. - all the little things that can cause initial friction between ownership and potential die-hard fans can be taken care of by those very fans who will fill the seats.

I know you mean well but only part of your plan is viable.

Great idea to build a fan base and a list of potential supporters/season-ticket-buyers.

Bad idea to start tossing names, crests, colours around. As a business they have to own such intellectual property and it more likely they will stay away from anything close to what your group may come up with.... But as I write this it occurs to me that it would be fantastic if supporters helped build the club. Perhaps you could publish your suggestions using some sort of creative commons license and make explicit that the suggestions can become the property of any new professional team for some token "payment"?

Hmmm any lawyers/intellectual property experts out there got a way to make this work?

[jloome]

Anybody think a share-based offering could work, like Ebbsfleet United. Set up a non-profit to manage it, sell 10,000 shares at $100 a piece to fund it?

[kyam]

Anybody think a share-based offering could work, like Ebbsfleet United. Set up a non-profit to manage it, sell 10,000 shares at $100 a piece to fund it?

This arrangement would raise..... $1 million dollars (*Dr. Evil Voice).

Honestly, thats peanuts in this business. For 1 year of seasons tickets + ownership share, I think we should look more at $2000-3000 per share/season tickets. This would raise $20-40 million. Perhaps enough to own 30% share of a professional club/stadium.

Fan-shareholders would need to dole out an additional $1000 per year to renew their seasons tickets (raisng about $10 million a year). If they don'T renew the seasons tickets, they continue to be shareholders but won't get a seat. The team cant simply sell 10 000 seats for 2-3 grand for a lifetime of seasons tickets. Even shareholders need to pay!

[Mr.Impact]

Non Profit is the way to go for NASL level Clubs. Get the Alberta Minor Soccer Association involved and find a Kerfoot, or a Saputo to handle the rest. Surely with a province as financially stable as Alberta, someone could emerge.

[jloome]

I know what you're saying, but I wasn't thinking that would carry the club! It would raise enough, however, to leverage some investment money, and perhaps a partner with deeper pockets. At the very least, it could be offered as seed money to an investor.

But yeah, maybe just funding the whole thing would be worthwhlle. I believe Ebbsleet was a takeover of an existing club, which is why it was less than $100 per share.

[Cooks]

This arrangement would raise..... $1 million dollars (*Dr. Evil Voice).

Honestly, thats peanuts in this business. For 1 year of seasons tickets + ownership share, I think we should look more at $2000-3000 per share/season tickets. This would raise $20-40 million. Perhaps enough to own 30% share of a professional club/stadium.

Fan-shareholders would need to dole out an additional $1000 per year to renew their seasons tickets (raisng about $10 million a year). If they don'T renew the seasons tickets, they continue to be shareholders but won't get a seat. The team cant simply sell 10 000 seats for 2-3 grand for a lifetime of seasons tickets. Even shareholders need to pay!

You are talking about soccer in Canada, right? If the team could "simply" sell 10 000 seats for one season, it would be a major accomplishment ( a super major mindbogglingly astronomical accomplishment). Baby steps.

[alberta white]

I agree, the $20-40 million is MSL 'buy-in ' money. Calgary would be looking at an NASL team, which is similar to a Div 1/ Div 2 english outfit.

If you operate just on an average of $20K a player, whilst networking them through college or a 'proper job'. then a squad of 22 gets you moving at under $500K a year (remember there are guys in the CFL on $25K a year). Anyway Double that for inclusion of backroom staff. 5000 seats in bleacher format run in at $350K. Clubhouse about the same. I dont know if leaseing or buying a field is more appropriate. But in short I would reckon a budget of between $2-5 Million gets you in the NASL game, Base your debentures, and seat ticket sales on that figure and hunt for sponsors as agressivley as possible. (Suncore Stadium etc, Names on shirts, Local TV exposure, puts adverts on the hoardings at the side of the pitch)

Its all about means and methods.

Another question. Do you start from scatch like FC Edmonton, and have everybody at a loss as to whats happening or 'Ramp up' an existing Amature side with established roots, and possibly a developable home field from which to grow a support base from?

Check out the Garforth town Website. They are owned by Simon Clifford (the technical advisor for Bend it Like Beckham) They were a effectivley an amature side going nowhere when he bought them. But sponsore ship and a proffesional outlook has them chasing Football league status in the next 10 years

[jloome]

This is not indoor football. You can't operate on averages of 20K per salary at the second division level anymore in North America and satisfy the potential fanbase.

It has to be a step below MLS, not a leaping chasm. The min. salary in MLS is now $41,000 US per season. Start with that as a realistic base, as that's where the top clubs on the continent in terms of business development -- Toronto, Seattle, LA - are right now.

So assume salaries ranging anywhere from about $20,000 to about $150,000, but averaging around $40,000. At that level, a young professional can still make a living of sorts without having to get a second job, allowing him to concentrate on being a proper professional. He'll still need a roommate, but hey, life's rough.

So realistically, to give the customer base what you want, you're look at $650,000 to $800,000 for a squad.

If you're uber cheap on the adminstrative support and coaching side, you're likely looking at a head coach, assistant coach, goalkeeping coach, scouting director, gm/op manager, a couple of sales people, a couple of support staff. So you're likely looking at another $650,000 there.

Then you're looking at about $500,000 per season for travel, although you can probably knock that down someone via sponsorship arrangements. Let's conservatively say $350,000.

Then you've got stadium rental. If you're lucky and get municipal rateson a small stadium, with lights and other supporting functions, you're probably looking at a minimum of $1,500 per game, or about $20,000 per season (or way up, depending on the market and available venues.)

Then you've got insurance and benefits for each and all necessary, figure another $120,000 all told. Then you've got office rental for another $25,000-40,000 or so.

So for a top-notch second division club, you're looking at about $2.3 Million per season, give or take based on stadium costs. That's actually a supportable number, assuming you can come close to selling out your 5,000 seats by putting a decent club on the pitch, and have a good sales and marketing team. You can also lower travel costs with road loops and by having clubs plan for dormitory accomodation when building or renovating stadiums. (This could not only save clubs a fortune in accomodation costs by "hosting"each other, it would allow for residential academies within all of the clubs.)

Either way, at those kind of numbers, you need either a serious public buy in or a seriously well-heeled partner.

[alberta white]

Apologies jloome, still get my Dollars and Pounds Sterling mixed up a little. Still I Kinda think we agree that even at NASL level Somewhere between $2-3 million gets a club with a decent operating budget.

What I really wanted to highlight was the Simon Clifford thing. He made his money franchising Brazilian Soccer Schools in Europe and the UK. In perticular a brand of preschool coaching called soccertots. This got the intrest of the Lego corperation (small kids soccer and building blocks all sit together nicley i suppose) He also use to sit next to Juninho's dad at the Riverside When said brazillian played for the 'Boro in England, so made a number of inflential connections. Anyway lego now effectivley bankrole his None league outfit in West yorshire UK called Garforth town.

check out their website. Its a good model on how to build an amature outfit into a Professional one.

http://www.garforthtown.com/

Also check out his wikipeidia page. he's quite an intresting character.

[jloome]

LOL, 20,000 pounds or about $40000, gotcha.

Makes more mathematical sense now

[Cooks]

jloome,

Your numbers and mine match very closely. I'd always calculated the costs for a club to run about $2.5 mil annually. Do you have a background in the field? (most people never calculate things like insurance).

Anyway, like I've said many times, it's all a moot point without a proper venue, and it looks like that's where the deep deep pockets will need to come in.