Mar. 27 - TFC vs. Columbus Crew (R) (Webstream)

[Soju]

Some highlights up here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqIh8prUXMo

I usually don't like "bullying" players or singling players out as I think it's often knee jerk and unwarranted in football, but seriously Nick Garcia cannot play this sport. He has no business in it. He is done. He has to go and whoever was responsible for him starting or even being a part of this squad needs to lose their job. His first touch in that sketchy back pass debacle was amateurish, his clearance that resulted in the BS second goal was amateurish.

This is not a pub league ffs it's not acceptable for a player to comically smash a clearance attempt into his prone teammate when he's NOT UNDER ANY PRESSURE. I can't believe he has a job in this league. TFC fans please, tell head office you aren't going to support this team until at the very least he's replaced. Christ is that frustrating.

Noticed immediately after the second goal DeGuzman just sits down on the pitch. Rather than your DP with his head up yelling clapping rallying the boys for another push, just collapses on the pitch. That body language speaks volumes. Fix the defense and address the lack of grit in this team and there might be something worth watching here.

[Grizzly]

Some highlights up here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqIh8prUXMo

I usually don't like "bullying" players or singling players out as I think it's often knee jerk and unwarranted in football, but seriously Nick Garcia cannot play this sport. He has no business in it. He is done. He has to go and whoever was responsible for him starting or even being a part of this squad needs to lose their job. His first touch in that sketchy back pass debacle was amateurish, his clearance that resulted in the BS second goal was amateurish.

This is not a pub league ffs it's not acceptable for a player to comically smash a clearance attempt into his prone teammate when he's NOT UNDER ANY PRESSURE. I can't believe he has a job in this league. TFC fans please, tell head office you aren't going to support this team until at the very least he's replaced. Christ is that frustrating.

Noticed immediately after the second goal DeGuzman just sits down on the pitch. Rather than your DP with his head up yelling clapping rallying the boys for another push, just collapses on the pitch. That body language speaks volumes. Fix the defense and address the lack of grit in this team and there might be something worth watching here.

It has been pointed out before, I think by BBTB, that Garcia and Preki were teammates for several years with Kansas City. It is certainly starting to look like a double standard has been applied as far as cutting loose certain players. If you are going to be a hardass, disciplinarian coach, you sure as hell better be fair and not show any favouritism because you will lose the room pretty fast if you do. If Garcia starts the next game, Preki may lose the respect of his team.

As far as DeGuzman goes, I have often wondered if the transfer to Spain was not a mistake for him. He was really starting to show some offensive flair and was becoming a key player on the field for Hannover. When he transferred to Spain he was probably not quite talented/experienced enough to play this role in La Liga and gets converted to a role player. Now he is playing at a far lower level league with players who mostly don't have the talent to play with him. I suspect he would have developed better had he stayed in Germany at least for a few more years before transferring to a higher level. Now he just reminds me of so many Canadian players before him who seem to do well at a high level but disappoint with the national team because they are role players at a high level while with the national team (and in JDG's case with TFC) we need them to be dominating players.

[BearcatSA]

Now he just reminds me of so many Canadian players before him who seem to do well at a high level but disappoint with the national team because they are role players at a high level while with the national team (and in JDG's case with TFC) we need them to be dominating players.

I remember you stating this point before and I agreed then as I do now. I would say the same thing about Hutchinson.

Nick Garcia has a bad case of the the terrible too's: too slow, too short, too dangerous on the ball. Several moons ago I guess he was in the USMNT set up but it looks as if he doesn't have any tread left on his tires. About the only thing he might have left is the unsavoury savvy of being able to deliver a covert cheapshot to an opponent, but that's about it. I'm curious as to how this one plays out.

[Sam]

On the DeGuzman issue - I thought Julian gave up the ball more than any other player on the pitch for TFC. Not sure if this was really the case or I just expected more from him. He had one beautiful ball to DeRo which reminded me of 2007 Gold Cup Julian, but other than that I though he was pretty poor. I'm not sure if I agree with Grizzly entirely because I though that with Deportivo Julian was being used as an offensive threat, even from his deeper role, so I don't think the move was a poor one. I also don't really disagree with his move to MLS, because I think as Canadian soccer supporters we'd all like to see as many top quality players playing domestically as possible. In the last few years this has changed a lot. Just look at our youth teams which are almost entirely domestic based now, and we've sent domestic teams to friendlies who have looked decent. I think the biggest problem which Grizzly hit right on the head is that TFC is not giving Julian a position that he is particularly comfortable playing in, but the coaching staff are expecting him to be all over the pitch. So in my opinion TFC need to stop relying on Julian to do everything and just give him a specific role ex. play a 5 man midfield with two holding players and give Julian freedom to move forward with the likes of DeRosario and Barrett/Peterson on the wings. I don't think that playing in a weaker league will make Julian a "worse player" but if he is misused by TFC it will make him a worse player.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

On the DeGuzman issue - I thought Julian gave up the ball more than any other player on the pitch for TFC. Not sure if this was really the case or I just expected more from him. He had one beautiful ball to DeRo which reminded me of 2007 Gold Cup Julian, but other than that I though he was pretty poor. I'm not sure if I agree with Grizzly entirely because I though that with Deportivo Julian was being used as an offensive threat, even from his deeper role, so I don't think the move was a poor one. I also don't really disagree with his move to MLS, because I think as Canadian soccer supporters we'd all like to see as many top quality players playing domestically as possible. In the last few years this has changed a lot. Just look at our youth teams which are almost entirely domestic based now, and we've sent domestic teams to friendlies who have looked decent. I think the biggest problem which Grizzly hit right on the head is that TFC is not giving Julian a position that he is particularly comfortable playing in, but the coaching staff are expecting him to be all over the pitch. So in my opinion TFC need to stop relying on Julian to do everything and just give him a specific role ex. play a 5 man midfield with two holding players and give Julian freedom to move forward with the likes of DeRosario and Barrett/Peterson on the wings. I don't think that playing in a weaker league will make Julian a "worse player" but if he is misused by TFC it will make him a worse player.

JDG definitely over handled the ball a couple times, but still the most dangerous offensive spots for tfc started on his foot.

[Keegan]

It has been pointed out before, I think by BBTB, that Garcia and Preki were teammates for several years with Kansas City. It is certainly starting to look like a double standard has been applied as far as cutting loose certain players. If you are going to be a hardass, disciplinarian coach, you sure as hell better be fair and not show any favouritism because you will lose the room pretty fast if you do. If Garcia starts the next game, Preki may lose the respect of his team.

As far as DeGuzman goes, I have often wondered if the transfer to Spain was not a mistake for him. He was really starting to show some offensive flair and was becoming a key player on the field for Hannover. When he transferred to Spain he was probably not quite talented/experienced enough to play this role in La Liga and gets converted to a role player. Now he is playing at a far lower level league with players who mostly don't have the talent to play with him. I suspect he would have developed better had he stayed in Germany at least for a few more years before transferring to a higher level. Now he just reminds me of so many Canadian players before him who seem to do well at a high level but disappoint with the national team because they are role players at a high level while with the national team (and in JDG's case with TFC) we need them to be dominating players.

I see the point you are trying to make about many Canadians but De Guzman doesn't fit that description as he wasn't a role player in Spain he was a key member of Deportivo and player of the year in 2007-2008. Columbus clearly knew the talent he has, they collapsed on him every chance they got. The movement and tactical knowledge of TFC players just isn't on the level of Julian's you could see this very often and it was frustrating to watch, I can't imagine how frustrated Julian was.

[Grizzly]

On the DeGuzman issue - I thought Julian gave up the ball more than any other player on the pitch for TFC. Not sure if this was really the case or I just expected more from him. He had one beautiful ball to DeRo which reminded me of 2007 Gold Cup Julian, but other than that I though he was pretty poor. I'm not sure if I agree with Grizzly entirely because I though that with Deportivo Julian was being used as an offensive threat, even from his deeper role, so I don't think the move was a poor one. I also don't really disagree with his move to MLS, because I think as Canadian soccer supporters we'd all like to see as many top quality players playing domestically as possible. In the last few years this has changed a lot. Just look at our youth teams which are almost entirely domestic based now, and we've sent domestic teams to friendlies who have looked decent. I think the biggest problem which Grizzly hit right on the head is that TFC is not giving Julian a position that he is particularly comfortable playing in, but the coaching staff are expecting him to be all over the pitch. So in my opinion TFC need to stop relying on Julian to do everything and just give him a specific role ex. play a 5 man midfield with two holding players and give Julian freedom to move forward with the likes of DeRosario and Barrett/Peterson on the wings. I don't think that playing in a weaker league will make Julian a "worse player" but if he is misused by TFC it will make him a worse player.

JDG rarely did anything offensive with Deportivo. He scored one goal in 97 games. He marked some impressive players but almost totally concentrated on defending. He didn't score a lot in Hannover either but he was coming forward and contributing to the attack a lot more.

I think the suggestion that having as many players playing domestically as possible will improve the MNT is a complete fallacy. What a large number of domestic clubs should do is develop and maintain a lot of players and give depth to the national team. Players should be developing at home (as well as abroad if they have the opportunity but this will always be a limited number) and then playing at the highest level possible in the prime of their career. The domestic league may also give them somewhere to wind down their career. If you look at the stronger CONCACAF nations with domestic leagues this is exactly what they are doing. Their top players are playing abroad but the domestic league is developing a lot of players and providing solid depth for the squad. JDG is in the prime of his career so it would be better from a MNT perspective if he was playing in a better league. I think it is advantageous for the guy playing in European leagues similar in level to MLS to come back to North America but the guys who are able to play in better leagues should stay in Europe.

Since Hutchinson was mentioned I also feel his development has stagnated at Copenhagen and he plays well below what I was expecting from him. I think development wise he made a big mistake in turning down the transfer to Saturn in Russia. He would have played at a significantly higher level in a league with a much more creative and attractive style of play.

[Grizzly]

I see the point you are trying to make about many Canadians but De Guzman doesn't fit that description as he wasn't a role player in Spain he was a key member of Deportivo and player of the year in 2007-2008. Columbus clearly knew the talent he has, they collapsed on him every chance they got. The movement and tactical knowledge of TFC players just isn't on the level of Julian's you could see this very often and it was frustrating to watch, I can't imagine how frustrated Julian was.

He exactly fits my description. Saying that he is a role player doesn't mean he wasn't important. He was crucial in defending against some top players and did a very good job doing so. What he didn't do was develop any sort of offensive and playmaking flair because that was not the role assigned to him. Yet it is the role that both Canada and TFC need from him. In MLS they don't need a guy who can handle La Liga strikers because there are so few players of this calibre in MLS. Thus a decent MLS defensive mid can be had far cheaper than JDG. Again with the national team we have enough players who can handle this role and also need him to be more offensive yet this is exactly the side of his game that he wasn't developing in Spain.

[Sam]

JDG rarely did anything offensive with Deportivo. He scored one goal in 97 games. He marked some impressive players but almost totally concentrated on defending. He didn't score a lot in Hannover either but he was coming forward and contributing to the attack a lot more.

I think the suggestion that having as many players playing domestically as possible will improve the MNT is a complete fallacy. What a large number of domestic clubs should do is develop and maintain a lot of players and give depth to the national team. Players should be developing at home (as well as abroad if they have the opportunity but this will always be a limited number) and then playing at the highest level possible in the prime of their career. The domestic league may also give them somewhere to wind down their career. If you look at the stronger CONCACAF nations with domestic leagues this is exactly what they are doing. Their top players are playing abroad but the domestic league is developing a lot of players and providing solid depth for the squad. JDG is in the prime of his career so it would be better from a MNT perspective if he was playing in a better league. I think it is advantageous for the guy playing in European leagues similar in level to MLS to come back to North America but the guys who are able to play in better leagues should stay in Europe.

Since Hutchinson was mentioned I also feel his development has stagnated at Copenhagen and he plays well below what I was expecting from him. I think development wise he made a big mistake in turning down the transfer to Saturn in Russia. He would have played at a significantly higher level in a league with a much more creative and attractive style of play.

I always thought De Guzman looked like an attacking threat with Deportivo when I watched him, but admittedly I can only remember seeing him once or twice at Hannover. As for bringing Canadian players home to play domestically. I don't think it has a particularly large effect either way on national team results, but its helps supporters of the club game more readily identify with the national team.

[Gian-Luca]

On the DeGuzman issue - I thought Julian gave up the ball more than any other player on the pitch for TFC.

He probably was, but he was also the player with the ball more than any other player on the pitch for TFC - he probably made more accurate passes than any other player as well.

I thought his effectiveness was partly stifled because his teammates in midfield who aren't used to playing with him were often too close to him rather than getting open for an outlet pass, and he sometimes over played. Granted, he still looks to pass back more often than he can pass forward and provide that cutting through-ball - but was the only TFC player to do so in the middle of the park yesterday (twice - which shows how little offense was created overall)

[jpg75]

De Guzman was not an offensive catalyst for Depor. He was a hard-working, talismanic defensive presence constantly disrupting the other teams passing through the middle of the field. When he won the Depor POTY award it was because he embodied what the team was, which was an unsung group of young players who were not expected to do anything and yet rose to the occassion to overachieve.

He did learn alot in Spain though, he definitely progressed his skills from his first season to his third and fourth. When he arrived in Spain he would constantly have his passes picked off and looked timid on the ball, by the time he left he had developed confidence to shield off opponents and his passes were threading their way to his teammates.

[BearcatSA]

I think the suggestion that having as many players playing domestically as possible will improve the MNT is a complete fallacy. What a large number of domestic clubs should do is develop and maintain a lot of players and give depth to the national team. Players should be developing at home (as well as abroad if they have the opportunity but this will always be a limited number) and then playing at the highest level possible in the prime of their career. The domestic league may also give them somewhere to wind down their career. If you look at the stronger CONCACAF nations with domestic leagues this is exactly what they are doing. Their top players are playing abroad but the domestic league is developing a lot of players and providing solid depth for the squad. JDG is in the prime of his career so it would be better from a MNT perspective if he was playing in a better league. I think it is advantageous for the guy playing in European leagues similar in level to MLS to come back to North America but the guys who are able to play in better leagues should stay in Europe.

That's what I envisioned, and seeing guys like Jakovic, Hainault, and Johnson enjoying success in MLS and emerging (or re-emerging) in the MNT picture is a good model for other potential NT squad players. Ideally, we want our best players playing at the highest level possible but I think having more squad depth domestically based is a good thing

Thus a decent MLS defensive mid can be had far cheaper than JDG. Again with the national team we have enough players who can handle this role and also need him to be more offensive yet this is exactly the side of his game that he wasn't developing in Spain.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but I don't know if I agree with you there. I think our MNT could really use a stronger defensive, ball-winning presence out there or a quality holding mid/distribution hub primarily positioned in front of the back four. That would allow DeGuzman and the other central mid to be more box to box types.

[Grizzly]

De Guzman was not an offensive catalyst for Depor. He was a hard-working, talismanic defensive presence constantly disrupting the other teams passing through the middle of the field. When he won the Depor POTY award it was because he embodied what the team was, which was an unsung group of young players who were not expected to do anything and yet rose to the occassion to overachieve.

He did learn alot in Spain though, he definitely progressed his skills from his first season to his third and fourth. When he arrived in Spain he would constantly have his passes picked off and looked timid on the ball, by the time he left he had developed confidence to shield off opponents and his passes were threading their way to his teammates.

I agree with this and do think his skills did develop in Spain. The problem is he developed the skills of a top notch defensive midfielder and didn't develop the skills to be a playmaking midfielder. Naturally some of the skills overlap but many of the crucial skills of being an offensive midfielder he didn't develop adequately nor as much as he might have had he stayed in the inferior but still quite good Bundesliga. To some extent I (and by extension the MNT and TFC) are being unfair to him. He developed into a top notch defensive midfielder but is being asked to be a play making offensive midfielder. It is assumed since he played at such a high level that he can handle this even though he has never done this in his club career.He has shown signs of being able to do so but not on a consistent basis. Really what we should expect from him is to be a top notch defensive midfielder but in the national teams case we are far more lacking in the offensive midfield role than defensive so we employ him in this capacity (to address Bearcats point about what I meant earlier). In TFC's case they probably don't want to pay DP money for a guy able to neutralize the world class strikers who don't play in MLS so they also try him in a offensive role. In an ideal world he plays defensive mid for the national team and upgrades the current guys in that position but the problem is who do we play as an offensive mid in his place?

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

First off, if your gonna write an essay use paragraphs, so tough on the eyes. Thank You! lol

Now, as has been pointed out JDG is a defensive player and honed those skills in Spain, but he can be effective offensively even from a defensive spot in the field, in the second half he had a perfect long ball through ball to DeRo from the top of our own box. JDG needs to not always push forward, but just distribute efficiently from the back, sending DeRo into the box. If JDG is surronded by guys tat can corral to his long passes JDG will be able to create offensive breaks throughout the games.

[BearcatSA]

I always thought DeGuzman was at his best in a box to box free role, dropping back to help up the holding mid as needed, or pushing up and supporting the attacking/creative mid, as needed. He's really effective with that very quick, tight turn in possession and then a distribution, be it a short pass or a longer diagonal ball (i.e. pass to DeRo for his goal against CR at BMO). I think it's a case of getting guys on his wave length.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

I always thought that the fullbacks needed the better ball playing skills then the CBs simply because they see more of the ball offensively, but as you say it depends on the system (i.e. Hainault playing RB at Houston)....

You need at least one guy in the middle who can put their foot on the ball, lift their head and make accurate passes under pressure if you want to maintain possession and build from the back rather than launching long ball after long ball down towards the forwards. I suspect that's a big part of what Preki probably hopes to see from Nick Garcia right now (no need for anyone to launch into a rant explaining why that isn't happening I watched Saturday's game as well). I don't think Attakora is going to provide that right now given his relative inexperience. An argument can be made that Preki will eventually just have to make the best out of what's available rather than rigidly sticking to a system but if the money is available to fit someone else in under the cap at this point I suspect the solution will be to try to find a new relatively inexpensive player who could help to stabilize the back four through a discovery signing or a trade.

[Havoc88]

De Guzman was not an offensive catalyst for Depor. He was a hard-working, talismanic defensive presence constantly disrupting the other teams passing through the middle of the field. When he won the Depor POTY award it was because he embodied what the team was, which was an unsung group of young players who were not expected to do anything and yet rose to the occassion to overachieve

There is a great clip with De Guz at Depor here: http://www.rednationonline.ca/How_Do_You_Get_the_Most_for_Your_Money_mar_5_10_column.shtml

Most of the games Depor had during that amazing stretch in the spring of 08 can be found on youtube and you can see alot of De Guz's plays. That clip has him threading a brilliant pass that set up the goal. Shortly after he flies in to get a good shot over the net. To me, when Depor was winning, he was quite versatile.

[Cheeta]

Didn't see the match, just the highlights so really can't comment too much on anything other than the a few plays.

1st goal was rubbish defending. Think we can all agree on that. It's early, mistakes on coverage are more likely to happen at this point of the season but yikes. I could have scored that.

2nd goal is a laugh. I don't know how the rules work in MLS for retroactive punishments but if a protocol exists I'd be sending the tape of that challenge which felled Frei into the league offices. I don't think there is anything malicious in it, last desperate rush on tired legs sort of thing, but it was a dangerously reckless challenge which went unpunished. Intent or not, the result can sometimes be the same. Everyone would be screaming bloody murder if that play put Frei out for the next month with cracked ribs.

Nice to see White have a go at goal there in the highlights, but counter attacking really isn't as effective as it should be if the ball carrier, White in one glaring highlight, gets the blinders on as soon as he gets to the attacking third at the expense of his team mates and more dangerous opportunities. Like to see your attacking players hungry and brave for goal, hate to see them busting their lungs galloping up-field to smartly support a counter-attack only to become invisible to the too selfish ball carrier.

Anyway, fingers and toes crossed. Some teams come together under adversity and over achieve despite the odds. I'm sure everyone is hoping this group of players may be just such a team.

[jpg75]

There is a great clip with De Guz at Depor here: http://www.rednationonline.ca/How_Do_You_Get_the_Most_for_Your_Money_mar_5_10_column.shtml

Most of the games Depor had during that amazing stretch in the spring of 08 can be found on youtube and you can see alot of De Guz's plays. That clip has him threading a brilliant pass that set up the goal. Shortly after he flies in to get a good shot over the net. To me, when Depor was winning, he was quite versatile.

Nice, where are the other 87 minutes of the game? Ya know, the times when De Guz is running back and forth, up and down pressing the midfielders any time they receive a pass from the back and not allowing them to turn? His primary responsibility was to disrupt the other teams flow and then distribute the ball. The main attacking threats were the wingers (Mexican Guardado was the danger man down the left) and up front (Riki, Arismendi, Valeron)

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

Nice, where are the other 87 minutes of the game? Ya know, the times when De Guz is running back and forth, up and down pressing the midfielders any time they receive a pass from the back and not allowing them to turn? His primary responsibility was to disrupt the other teams flow and then distribute the ball. The main attacking threats were the wingers (Mexican Guardado was the danger man down the left) and up front (Riki, Arismendi, Valeron)

Yeah, I think JDG can be used in the same capacity, yet still be more of the focus of every attack or at least the start of it. If a quality front man can be attained DeRo can be that Winger for JDG to get the ball wide to. JDG is accustommed to playing high level and high octane football. He should be marking a guy like Schellotto everytime.

[BearcatSA]

You need at least one guy in the middle who can put their foot on the ball, lift their head and make accurate passes under pressure if you want to maintain possession and build from the back rather than launching long ball after long ball down towards the forwards. I suspect that's a big part of what Preki probably hopes to see from Nick Garcia right now (no need for anyone to launch into a rant explaining why that isn't happening I watched Saturday's game as well). I don't think Attakora is going to provide that right now given his relative inexperience. An argument can be made that Preki will eventually just have to make the best out of what's available rather than rigidly sticking to a system but if the money is available to fit someone else in under the cap at this point I suspect the solution will be to try to find a new relatively inexpensive player who could help to stabilize the back four through a discovery signing or a trade.

I don't disagree with your points here. Ideally, all your back four should be comfortable on the ball and strong with passing to keep possession and build from the back. I just don't see Attakora having the tight control, confident longer ground passing ability, or overall offensive skills needed for fullback in the longer term. His strengths are much more on the defensive end.

Everybody (not just Preki and TFC) is looking for that CB who is comfortable in possession yet not a liability on the defensive side of the ledger. Unfortunately, those guys don't seem to come that cheap so as you say Preki will just have to make due with what he has available at the moment.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

People who drone on and on about firing Mo Johnston (not referring to BearcatSA here) never seem to me to do so for intelligent reasons but more based on a follow the herd lynch mob type hysteria. The centre back issue would look very different right now if Omar Gonzalez rather than Sam Cronin had been selected at #2 in the 2009 Superdraft. Although hindsight is 20/20 on that one obviously and Cronin did reasonably well last season, the fact that Preki seems to see a need to use Martin Saric at the position Cronin was originally signed for has to raise questions if the best possible use was made of that pick. Adrian Serioux cost a first round draft pick and some allocation money last season with a third round draft pick also being acquired. That's the sort of level of outlay for a player making about 120k that would potentially turn things around at central defence and arguably should already have done so. If it isn't possible to at least attempt to work the phones to try to do something like that at this point serious questions should be asked by the powers that be at MLSE as to what's going on in salary cap terms.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

What Jason DeVos made of Saturday's game:-

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/jasondevos/2010/03/toronto-fc-needs-improvement.html

and Paul James's verdict:-

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/james-on-soccer/reds-come-up-short-in-major-league-soccer-opener/article1514870/

[Tuscan]

Sorry for going off topic but I'm curious. Is Toronto FC called "The FC" by Toronto fans?

Most of us do that just to piss off TFC supporters, even as much as it makes our own stomachs turn to hear the media say it.