Why is Toronto FC not in the Super Cup Division of the Dallas Cup Mar 28-Apr 4 2010

[kaiimes]

Very surprised to see Toronto Fc in the second division of the Dallas Cup this year. Vancouver Whitecaps are playing in the Super Cup so why not Toronto FC? The tournament increased the Super Group teams from 12-16 so this waters down the talent in the second division. Can't understand why Toronto would not enter the top division. Isn't that what an academy is all about - playing at the highest possible levels? Maybe Toronto want to win a trophy for MLSE because Toronto should be able to field a strong team in a second tier division. Toronto is wasting their time going to Dallas in my opinion. Seems Vancouver is the top dog in the development programs judging by the striking diffrences in philosophy regarding this Dallas Cup event which is fielding a lot of good sides in the Super Group and which includes three national teams for the first time. To me, Toronto FC should not be scared to play such teams and don't mention AC Milan last year as the Italians were just a bunch of school kids dressed up in Milan shirts and who really had little connection to AC Milan - except they were from Italy and wore the same shirts and used the name.

[RS]

MLS academy teams qualify for the Dallas Cup via the SUM U-17 Cup.

In 2008, TFC Academy made it to the semi-final of the SUM Cup and thus qualified for the '09 Dallas Cup Super Group. Last year, TFC did not make it to the '09 SUM Cup semi-final, therefore they did not qualify for the '10 Dallas Cup Super Group.

I believe Vancouver was invited back to the Super Group by virtue of being a finalist in last year's Super Group.

[jpg75]

Rudi is correct, MLS acadmies have to qualify for the Super Group and the TFC boys did not. This has nothing to do with what TFC want, i'm sure they'd love to be in the Super Group.

[kaiimes]

Thanks for the additional information re "qualifying" to play in the Dallas Cup Under 20 "Super" division. I agree with what you are telling me about the MLS academy Under 17 tournament but having North American MLS teams' academy sides qualify to play in an American event at it's highest division does surprise me. Looking at the team names accepted for the event in the Super makes me wonder just how many qualified. It is an invitation tournament and this is why you see so many Mexican teams (lots of hispanics fans in Dallas), the other USA teams of which one maybe had to qualify from the local Dallas area, the others except for maybe an English academy team from Spurs or Chelsea would have to have won an event in England to qualify. If Toronto couldn't get into the Super division, and i believe they probably could have if they pushed a bit, then why go into a clearly inferior lower division where a half decent outfit will win their games easily. Maybe TFC were compelled to enter the Dallas Cup at the lower division but somehow I doubt that as it doesn't make any sense at all for a professional club's academy to play in that section. Anyway, what can I say that hasn't already been said but Toronto FC academy boys/men, should stay home where they surely will get tougher competition and which would push the players harder. Clearly, I don't manage TFC but, if I did, my academy would not be going to this event, dominated entirely by the Super division, unless we were in that same Super division. Disappointing to say the least, I say.

[RS]

We don't know who TFC is sending to represent them in the U-19 bracket. It may be their U-17 (Junior) Academy team, for all we know.

[kaiimes]

whoever goes there and plays, I hope they do well and enjoy themselves.

[morbital]

TFC are not in the Super Group simply because they are not good enough. not flaming or anything, that's just how it is.

[kaiimes]

TFC academy is good enough to play in the so called super cup division in my opinion. Playing in the other much lower calibre division is a complete waste of time unless, of course, trophy hunting is the name of the game in this case. Just wondering, though, just how many Dallas Cups has the Vancouver team won?

[morbital]

apples and oranges, the whitecaps program is a full time professional academy. tfc is part time at best. a tfc-academy turned whitecaps residency player said it best:

[RS]

TFC has gone full time this year, including billeting.

[kaiimes]

apples and oranges, the whitecaps program is a full time professional academy. tfc is part time at best. a tfc-academy turned whitecaps residency player said it best:

I guess the answer to my question is that the Whitecaps Academy has never won the Dallas Cup, therefore it is best to keep your comments about TFC a bit more respectful until your Whitecaps actually win the event - which likely will never happen. Frankly, the Whitecaps got badly beaten and outclassed by Sao Paolo's third string team last year - as did TFC by Manchester City so really best to accept your entry in the Dallas Cup this year is generally earned but there is a lot of work ahead to compete with the big boys (and I don't mean third and fourth string academies on vacation in Texas). Just what being full time has to do with winning the Dallas Cup escapes me. Most of the teams playing in the event are made up of schoolboys with, of course, some exceptions naturally, but overwhelmingly schoolboys playing because they like playing the sport and maybe catch the eye of some scout from college or whatever. Many winners fron non "full time" teams in past Dallas Cups. It's all about talent, fitness and discipline down there. That's what wins the Dallas Cup. Good luck to both teams of Vancouver Whitecaps and Toronto FC plus the other 2 or 3 Canadian teams entered in younger divisions.

[Canuck Oranje]

Wait a minute.

The Sao Paulo team that went to Dallas last year was in no way third string. It was essentially the team that played in the Copa Sao Paulo de Juniores in January 2009. In fact, Henrique (starting striker in the tournaments) is currently a reserve with the senior team for the Paulista and has so far scored once (which is more than Luciano Emilio has scored in the Paulista).

This year Sao Paulo won the Copa Sao Paulo de Juniores and probably about half of the players that were in Dallas were on that team. Cruzeiro finished at the about the same level this year in the Sao Paulo tournament as Sao Paulo FC did last year which is in the final 16 (I think). If I recall correctly, Cruzeiro was a high scoring team in the Sao Paulo tournament in January and if they bring the same team, it should be a favourite to win the tournament.

[kaiimes]

I didn't say Sao Paulo wasn't any good, i said it was the third stringers who played.

First team......first stringers

Reserve team.... second stringers

Third team (Juniors)...third stringers.

No doubt the team in Dallas was bolstered by a player or two from the second team (or third stringers) and for sure all very talented by normal standards with a player or two or three standouts.

[SthMelbRed]

I didn't say Sao Paulo wasn't any good, i said it was the third stringers who played.

First team......first stringers

Reserve team.... second stringers

Third team (Juniors)...third stringers.

No doubt the team in Dallas was bolstered by a player or two from the second team (or third stringers) and for sure all very talented by normal standards with a player or two or three standouts.

Yet you managed to say it in a derogatory manner suggesting that the 'Caps first team was humiliated by the Brazillians' 3rd string. What you're now claiming to say was that Sao Paolo's 3rd string played the 'Caps 3rd string and won comfortably. That's not what the tone of your original post was.

[kaiimes]

Yet you managed to say it in a derogatory manner suggesting that the 'Caps first team was humiliated by the Brazillians' 3rd string. What you're now claiming to say was that Sao Paolo's 3rd string played the 'Caps 3rd string and won comfortably. That's not what the tone of your original post was.

Caps first team wasn't in Dallas. I thought I made that quite clear as this is the subject at hand. It was their academy (of course!!) and yes, they were beaten very comfortably and easily. That's what I said - anyway why am I defending myself to you. Fact is we had a Caps fans insulting TFC on this site for no reason. TFC academy boys are pretty much the best young players around Southern Ontario and they should be in the Super Cup - that's my knowledgeable opinion. Besides, I don't see any other MLS academy teams in Dallas except for Dallas FC and they were in the Under 19 (not Super) section last year.

[Admin]

It's a language thing here.

3rd string 2nd string almost universally means your second or third choice for a specific team. Not age or divisional brackets.

So do say 3rd string generally means your third choice out of a pool of available players for a given team.

[Canuck Oranje]

FYI

The Sao Paulo team would have been the equivalent to what the Whitecaps put out there. That is primarily their best U-19s. That means it was their first string U-19 team. Sure, two or three players may already be on the senior team but not as many as you might think.

[kaiimes]

FYI

The Sao Paulo team would have been the equivalent to what the Whitecaps put out there. That is primarily their best U-19s. That means it was their first string U-19 team. Sure, two or three players may already be on the senior team but not as many as you might think.

illuminating

[jpg75]

TFCA start the 2010 Dallas Cup with a 4-0 win over Texans FC. In the 50th minute the opposing keeper was sent off and a PK was awarded that Matheson buried to give the boys a 4-0 lead that they sat on for the final 40 minutes.

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20100329&content_id=8980962&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

[jpg75]

TFC win again, this time 5-0 against Kosmos FC of New York. If they beat Malibu on Wednesday they win their group and advance to the QF's. Malibu lost to Texans FC this afternoon 4-1.

[kaiimes]

Toronto tied Malibu 1-1 to win their 4 team group and will play Chorillo FC of Panana City, Panama tomorrow at 11 am local time at Pizza Hut Park field #6. Chorrillo had the only wild card. In the Toronto game, the Toronto kids missed many glorious chances to win easily. Probably had 70% of the ball but the opposing goal seemed to be like a basketball net although it was clearly an ocean. Toronto goalie ejected late for pulling down an opponent running in to the goal in one of the rare runs by Malibu. Minute later a Malibu player sent off for an awful tackle on a Toronto player. Coach Neely must have been scratching his head after this one. The Toronto team, in some areas, need to keep their cool when down in a game. Loud foul language and such things not what is expected from them. Malibu never won a game so they will go home happy to California with this game. Vancouver suffered their 3rd loss in three games, this time to Mexican Under 18 National outfit 1-0 (penalty kick). Other losses were 3-0 to Eintracht Frankfurt and 1-0 to USA National U18 outfit. USA playing more than a half with 10 men. Vancouver looked a good side and did as well as could be expected. Mexico and USA National teams obviously using the event for training purposes and lacked some of the desire one would expect in a real cup competition. Erin Mills broke through into the U17 quarter finals and play Brujas of Costa Rica tomorrow on Pizza Hut Park pitch 4 at 1.30 p.m. Oakville Raiders went out with 2 ties and a loss.

[jpg75]

^ Jason Bent is the coach of the Senior team.

[kyam]

TFC are not in the Super Group simply because they are not good enough. not flaming or anything, that's just how it is.

TFC Academy is full time, and they now have younger TFC teams beyond U-16 and U-18 (ie: U-14, U-12 and younger). Its also much more difficult for MLS teams to qualify for the Super Group, cause they need to be a final 4 team in the MLS U-17 SUM Cup.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the Whitecaps are required to have a continental qualifier to play in the Super Group. They are simply invited. MLS places restrictions through the SUM Cup, its a way of giving the MLS SUM Cup some legitimacy.

Just based on the 4-nil and 5 nil score lines in the group TFC U-16 is drawn into, proves that TFC is playing in a torny way below the level they play at. Last year, the TFC Academy made it to the Dallas Cup and did pretty well from what I remember.

[jpg75]

TFC Academy is full time, and they now have younger TFC teams beyond U-16 and U-18 (ie: U-14, U-12 and younger). Its also much more difficult for MLS teams to qualify for the Super Group, cause they need to be a final 4 team in the MLS U-17 SUM Cup.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the Whitecaps are required to have a continental qualifier to play in the Super Group. They are simply invited. MLS places restrictions through the SUM Cup, its a way of giving the MLS SUM Cup some legitimacy.

Just based on the 4-nil and 5 nil score lines in the group TFC U-16 is drawn into, proves that TFC is playing in a torny way below the level they play at. Last year, the TFC Academy made it to the Dallas Cup and did pretty well from what I remember.

TFC do not have teams below the U16 group. They are hoping to have a U14 team soon, but haven't figured out where that team would compete.

Yes, Caps do not have to qualify. They were invited 2 years ago, were invited back last year and i guess would have "qualified" this time due to being finalists last year.

TFC sent their U18 team, not the U16's.

[kaiimes]

Bent isn't coaching this team. This is a young team making lots of mistakes but quite skilled. In retrospect, I think they are in the right division - they would not fare well at all in the super cup section in my view. Still, everything to play for tomorrow and maybe we'll see a parade on Yonge Street in April (only kidding) from this bunch of talented soccer players as there is no other MLSE team capable of winning anything judging by their performances in the NHL and NBA all year. Maybe the big team TFC can do better.