Macksam Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Now that we know what the reason was, I think Bobby L and company were in the right. I found it funny how people initially freaked the f*** out when this was announced... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 ^ As someone more interested in national team success than Whitecaps success, I would have to say that Bobby L and company were dead wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 The jury is still out IMO, they lost an excellent youth coach that they still have not replaced. We'll also see soon enough whether his loss effects the next recruiting class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 The jury is still out IMO, they lost an excellent youth coach that they still have not replaced. We'll also see soon enough whether his loss effects the next recruiting class... Doubt it. If you're Canadian and want to become a professional soccer player, this is practically your only option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 What I wrote was based on info I received last summer from the most reliable of sources. I haven't really been following up too much on the academy since then, but given the scope of what TFC were planning, I doubt much has changed with the plan. A less reliable source confirmed the billeting as happening as of a couple of months ago. Tom Anselmi stated last week, when he was on Bob McCown's show, that MLSEL have an RFP ( Request for proposals) out for an Academy. He didn't specify what aspect of the academy that the RFP was for but its pretty obvious that it is to build a residency establishment for the academy players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Doubt it. If you're Canadian and want to become a professional soccer player, this is practically your only option. Yeah, because going to TFC is a career ender. Like i said, we will see what happens in the next couple of months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted July 29, 2010 Author Share Posted July 29, 2010 Yeah, because going to TFC is a career ender. Like i said, we will see what happens in the next couple of months. Not really a career ender and I'm glad they are investing but look at it from the standpoint of the 16 year old. Which program has sent the most players to Europe? Which program has promoted the most players to their first team? The Caps head start gives them the nod in both. Over time I'm sure we'll see more TFC academy players make it up to the first team and once the Caps get to MLS there might be a noticeable drop in the number moving up due to tougher competition for spots. 3 MLS teams in 3 large markets with 3 academies is a great thing for our MNT hopes. Hopefully in time for 2014 and if not then definately for 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Not really a career ender and I'm glad they are investing but look at it from the standpoint of the 16 year old. Which program has sent the most players to Europe? Which program has promoted the most players to their first team? The Caps head start gives them the nod in both. Over time I'm sure we'll see more TFC academy players make it up to the first team and once the Caps get to MLS there might be a noticeable drop in the number moving up due to tougher competition for spots. 3 MLS teams in 3 large markets with 3 academies is a great thing for our MNT hopes. Hopefully in time for 2014 and if not then definately for 2018. Why is sending players to Europe a measure of success. This makes no sense to me and it is contradictory to the whole point of an academy. I am just baffled by the mindset in all all this.... I'll give you an example, suppose you are running a business in say, the highly "specailized skills" field of Pharmaceuticals, IT, telecommunications, or aerospace. As is always the case, your always looking at rationalizing cost and you have to consider outsourcing to do so. Naturally, you (like any other company today) will look for outsourcing opportunities in areas that are administative etc. You may look at outsourcing billing activities, some elements of product testing, statements, some lower skilled manufacturing activities. But would you consider outsourcing Product development and sales. Both are central to your business. Are you still in the business if you outsource product development to an overseas competitor? What are you if you are doing that. With all the but 2 or three MLS teams now having academies and some are quite ways ahead of others, do we know of anyone else who carries on this practise ? What about even in Europe, How common is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Not really a career ender and I'm glad they are investing but look at it from the standpoint of the 16 year old. Which program has sent the most players to Europe? Which program has promoted the most players to their first team? The Caps head start gives them the nod in both. Over time I'm sure we'll see more TFC academy players make it up to the first team and once the Caps get to MLS there might be a noticeable drop in the number moving up due to tougher competition for spots. 3 MLS teams in 3 large markets with 3 academies is a great thing for our MNT hopes. Hopefully in time for 2014 and if not then definately for 2018. How can you even compare the stats, TFC is handcuffed by MLS rules (residence restrictions, contract restrictions etc.) and could not have signed any players until this past January even if they wanted to. The Caps have not been bound by those rules and are signing all their residency players to contracts. The Caps are going to have to start playing by the same rules soon so we'll see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Whitecaps are a "selling club." Despite being "top notch" in North America, they really have a minnow the world-over. If they can develop a player and move him along for a decent sum, receive future transfer fees, and this in turn develops a proper national team player then they should be happy with this. If whatever other players left in the academy make the jump to the first team then they have done a great job. In this regard, the academies and professional clubs best improve the national team by sending players to top clubs, and also giving lads a chance in MLS. Our pool only grows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted July 29, 2010 Author Share Posted July 29, 2010 Free kick: Why is sending players to Europe a measure of success. A: Because they have the best leagues in the world? Sort of like European players going to the NHL. Free kick: This makes no sense to me and it is contradictory to the whole point of an academy. A: Don't tell that to Ajax or the Santos etc. The whole point of an academy is to develop players for the first team AND BEYOND. Players who can play in Europe and want to should be sold on for a profit. That is what team management decides with the players. The academy doesn't make that decision they just develop the players. jpg75 : How can you even compare the stats, TFC is handcuffed by MLS rules A: Yes like I said "Over time I'm sure we'll see more TFC academy players make it up to the first team and once the Caps get to MLS there might be a noticeable drop in the number moving up due to tougher competition for spots". Also thanks to the Caps MLS is starting to change the rules so this will benefit TFC and Montreal as well with their academy programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Yeah, because going to TFC is a career ender. Like i said, we will see what happens in the next couple of months. You misunderstood me JPG. I mean't the Canadian MLS teams in general is your only option. I wasn't specifically saying Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 jpg75 : How can you even compare the stats, TFC is handcuffed by MLS rules A: Yes like I said "Over time I'm sure we'll see more TFC academy players make it up to the first team and once the Caps get to MLS there might be a noticeable drop in the number moving up due to tougher competition for spots". Also thanks to the Caps MLS is starting to change the rules so this will benefit TFC and Montreal as well with their academy programs. Fair enough, I agree with your post. Macksam, my point was the Vancouver program will look like a less atttractive option for out-of-area kids relative to the other academy programs if the replacement for Neindorf isn't chosen or is underwhelming. If Joe Schmo is at the helm they won't be able to lure the top-notch Alberta kids they got in 2007 or poach the 2 TFC players (Teibert and Cobby) like they did in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Fair enough, I agree with your post. Macksam, my point was the Vancouver program will look like a less atttractive option for out-of-area kids relative to the other academy programs if the replacement for Neindorf isn't chosen or is underwhelming. If Joe Schmo is at the helm they won't be able to lure the top-notch Alberta kids they got in 2007 or poach the 2 TFC players (Teibert and Cobby) like they did in 2008. That could very well be the case. I have no objection to that view point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 I think that is the very reason why the 'Caps have not been in a hurry to appoint a Niendorf replacement, they are very well aware of the impact the selection will have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 A: Don't tell that to Ajax or the Santos etc. The whole point of an academy is to develop players for the first team AND BEYOND. Players who can play in Europe and want to should be sold on for a profit. That is what team management decides with the players. The academy doesn't make that decision they just develop the players. . But those example Are exactly what I am getting At as prime examples. They sell the finished product. Thats how you get the maximum value. They dont transfer the development or work to a competitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 But those example Are exactly what I am getting At as prime examples. They sell the finished product. Thats how you get the maximum value. They dont transfer the development or work to a competitor. That's true. People don't realize that young MLS players can go for $6 million like Edu instead of the $500,000 max you would get from some player still in your academy like Straith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazha Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Interesting to note that 18 months ago Straith's market value was listed at 50,000 Euro. He hasn't even played a full season for the Men's 2nd division Bundesliga side and is currently valued at 600,000 Euro. He is still 19. Another stellar season or two, followed by an interesting transfer, and The Whitecaps could find themselves cashing into a tidy finders fee. Not bad for a one year initial commitment. Lucky for the Caps he wasn't there since he was 12. Because you just wouldn't want to be TOO much on the line! Oh, by the way, after all the hoopla, Freddy Edu's current market value is a measly 1,000,000 Euro. I've got my money on Neindorf and Straith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 http://www.whitecapsfc.com/archive/feature11031003.aspx Sorry to dig up a long dormant thread, but in light of Niendorf's permanent replacement being announced, I'm curious how this affects some of the stronger opinions expressed in this thread. Has the fact that the 'Caps have gone for somebody with superb, international credentials won over some of the vociferous Niendorf supporters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 http://www.whitecapsfc.com/archive/feature11031003.aspx Sorry to dig up a long dormant thread, but in light of Niendorf's permanent replacement being announced, I'm curious how this affects some of the stronger opinions expressed in this thread. Has the fact that the 'Caps have gone for somebody with superb, international credentials won over some of the vociferous Niendorf supporters? Most of the people that lost their ****ing minds over that were just being overly pretentious anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Most of the people that lost their ****ing minds over that were just being overly pretentious anyhow. I will let Ed have his fun with this stupid, ignorant comment. Niendorf has a proven track record that is quite impressive both with the Caps elsewhere and there are few others in Canada who one can compare to him. It is always disappointing to see someone like that out of a job where he can be effective. Nevertheless, on the face of it, it looks like the Caps have hired someone good to replace him so that is good to see. The results will speak for themselves though not his resume so we will have to wait to see how well he does. If he does well and Niendorf goes somewhere else in Canada and also does what he has been doing for a long time now that will be a rare win-win situation for Canadian soccer. In general, though, it is always disappointing when one of our very small pool of talented coaches in Canada gets fired because most of the time it is for political reasons and they are replaced by poorer quality coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 I will let Ed have his fun with this stupid, ignorant comment. Niendorf has a proven track record that is quite impressive both with the Caps elsewhere and there are few others in Canada who one can compare to him. It is always disappointing to see someone like that out of a job where he can be effective. Nevertheless, on the face of it, it looks like the Caps have hired someone good to replace him so that is good to see. The results will speak for themselves though not his resume so we will have to wait to see how well he does. If he does well and Niendorf goes somewhere else in Canada and also does what he has been doing for a long time now that will be a rare win-win situation for Canadian soccer. In general, though, it is always disappointing when one of our very small pool of talented coaches in Canada gets fired because most of the time it is for political reasons and they are replaced by poorer quality coaches. Sure, but logic told me someone better was coming up so what I say stands. I don't disagree with the whole problem of politics and good coaches over here getting ****ed over though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 It's a good hiring, i think his record speaks for itself. Credit to the Caps management team, they realized they needed to find a top-notch replacement and they found him. I don't know how Dalrymple did, but i think this guy should be an upgrade. It was clear after the Dallas Cup results that they missed someone the calibre of Neindorf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Sure, but logic told me someone better was coming up so what I say stands. Not really. I realize that there is probably nowhere better to hire a TD out of than the Netherlands, but he's essentially TD at a tier two club with tier two and lower resume. Good enough for me, personally, I mean, it's very likely a good hiring, but it's not as if it's someone who blows Neindorf out of the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 The mandate is to bring players through the youth ranks, into the first team. Niendorf was not interested in filling this role. Sparta have several top players who are from Rotterdam and graduated from the academy. Given the influence of Feyenoord in the area, that's a huge accomplishment for the TD. Really anyone with any track record of this in modern football should be applauded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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