Thomas Niendorf leaves Caps

[ted]

First of all, this is not a Toronto vs. Vancouver argument. This is a Booby L is an idiot who clings to longball argument.

I thought Lenarduzzi was mostly a marketing and admin type presence these days. Does he really have much influence on the tactics/style of play of the first team?

[Johnnie Monster]

This whole panic over "long ball" is utter garbage.

First off, the Duze has ZERO input on tactics, so why his name is being dragged into this is beyond stupid.

The Caps played long ball under Valentine, Mitchell and Fonseca. They played Christmas tree defense under Lilley. Under TT the play on the ground has been remarkably refreshing to watch. Quick passing, great switch play, and precise aerial feeds into the box from the wing. Do I want to see more of this? Absolutely. Two trips to the league finals in two years tells me TT knows WTF he's doing. Do I want more of this from the residency? Hell yes please.

As for Niendorf - he's a talented man with very good connections, and his contributions will be sorely missed. However, I doubt the program is going to fall apart at the seams.

Remember, in one year we will be one of the most heavily attended, high profile clubs in North America. Our ownership wants the best training and development, and has the dollars to make it happen. We also have a new CEO at the helm who brings 10x the connections to Europe as Niendorf did.

I think those kinds of credentials will be more than enough to ensure high level interest in the residency.

[jpg75]

Well then i'm confused, Colin Miller is talking about how the residency and first team will now be on the same page, so what was so different before?

The reason i brought up the Doozer was because Miller is one of his boys and figure his signing has Doozers fingerprints all over them. It's also pretty common knowledge that Booby likes the longball and Miller has been exposed to it for most of his career so my assumption was that Miller will be teaching the boys longball. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Hope for your sake they play a more possession-style game cuz what's bad for the Caps is bad for Canada.

[Guest Ed]

This whole panic over "long ball" is utter garbage.

First off, the Duze has ZERO input on tactics, so why his name is being dragged into this is beyond stupid.

The Caps played long ball under Valentine, Mitchell and Fonseca. They played Christmas tree defense under Lilley. Under TT the play on the ground has been remarkably refreshing to watch. Quick passing, great switch play, and precise aerial feeds into the box from the wing. Do I want to see more of this? Absolutely. Two trips to the league finals in two years tells me TT knows WTF he's doing. Do I want more of this from the residency? Hell yes please.

As for Niendorf - he's a talented man with very good connections, and his contributions will be sorely missed. However, I doubt the program is going to fall apart at the seams.

Remember, in one year we will be one of the most heavily attended, high profile clubs in North America. Our ownership wants the best training and development, and has the dollars to make it happen. We also have a new CEO at the helm who brings 10x the connections to Europe as Niendorf did.I think those kinds of credentials will be more than enough to ensure high level interest in the residency.

Yes. The success of our young boys in England is so f*ing overwhelming, the 5% or so that are allowed to play there.

[Regs]

Well then i'm confused, Colin Miller is talking about how the residency and first team will now be on the same page, so what was so different before?

The reason i brought up the Doozer was because Miller is one of his boys and figure his signing has Doozers fingerprints all over them. It's also pretty common knowledge that Booby likes the longball and Miller has been exposed to it for most of his career so my assumption was that Miller will be teaching the boys longball. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Hope for your sake they play a more possession-style game cuz what's bad for the Caps is bad for Canada.

If this were truly the case, then why wasn't CM hired when he applied for the head coaching gig, the one that TT got instead?

I've never met TN myself personally but several people I've talked to have mentioned that he isn't the easiest person to work with.

[jpg75]

If this were truly the case, then why wasn't CM hired when he applied for the head coaching gig, the one that TT got instead?

I've never met TN myself personally but several people I've talked to have mentioned that he isn't the easiest person to work with.

I don't know, maybe the Duz thought TT might do a better job? My point was Booby probably hired Miller, they did play together for years...am i wrong?

Well he was very accomodating to me when i talked to him so i'll go by what i know instead of what others have said.

[ag futbol]

Meh, the bottom line here is that as long as the whitecaps have a product that few others can/will offer they will bring in talent.

Did those kids really jet TFC for TN? or was it more like in the early days of TFC academy the choice was residency / full-time program in comparison to a team that wasn’t approaching that. TFCA has never to date done extensive tours of Europe or hand the funding attached to it whitecaps rez has. Total package it’s always been the better sell, regardless of who’s coaching it.

So Toronto and Montreal are catching up now and Edmonton (if is as advertised) can’t be far behind. Nobody should be shocked, it’s not doomsday for the caps or anyone else. There’s still a large player pool out there and plenty of young kids to mould into whoever the style de jour is.

Taking nothing away from TN but Soehn is being completely discounted here. He played a good style of football in DC, their academy team has been reasonably successful considering the MLS restrictions, and won a supporters shield.

[SthMelbRed]

I've never met either man, nor watched either work up close, however, I'd like to know why so many people are so convinced that Thomas Niendorf's career body of work is more impressive than Teitur Thordarson's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teitur_Thordarson

As for labelling the whole 'Caps organisation as 'long-ball' because that's what somebody thinks Bobby Lennarduzzi represents, that's laughable. I watched those same 'Caps play some wonderful football against TFC at Swangard last summer in a very well-deserved win.

[Richard]

^ Simple.... envy!

[jpg75]

^ Simple.... envy!

So just because i think they're making a big mistake makes me envious!? Before that i was prejudiced...what's next Richard?

Look up all of my posts in regards to the Caps residency and you'll see the respect i have for their program. If anything a few big headed Caps fans occassionally like to rub it in that your program is so much better than the TFC academy program. BTW i found out tonight TFCA went "residency" last year, they had atleast one out of town kid billeting and will likely have more than that this year.

[Richard]

What's next depends on what you post next ;-)

TFC is making an effort with their academy to be sure but they have a long, long way to go yet to approach what the Caps have achieved.

Knowing how the Caps current management team works, no one person was responsible for hiring Colin Miller, least of all Bob Lenarduzzi.

I suspect Niendorf was expecting to wield more influence in the new regime than he was being permitted to do and became something of an unhappy square peg in an increasingly rounding hole along with other considerations. The Residency will not suffer for having a change of leader.

[Kayto]

This may not seem relevant to this thread but then again it might be dead relevant. What rights do TFC or the Caps have to protect players they develop in either program from being drafted away by another MLS team. My sense is there is some sort of gentlemen's agreement at present but couldn't TFC, or Chicago for that matter, draft an Adam Straith and have his MLS rights even though his German rights are owned by Cottbus. To take a domestic example is there anything preventing TFC from drafting Russell Teibert next year? I'm having trouble reconciling spending buckets on development in a draft environment.

[RS]

It's funny how this thread turned into a Whitecaps vs. TFC thread simply because a person from Toronto dared express an opinion about the Caps academy.

[RS]

This may not seem relevant to this thread but then again it might be dead relevant. What rights do TFC or the Caps have to protect players they develop in either program from being drafted away by another MLS team. My sense is there is some sort of gentlemen's agreement at present but couldn't TFC, or Chicago for that matter, draft an Adam Straith and have his MLS rights even though his German rights are owned by Cottbus. To take a domestic example is there anything preventing TFC from drafting Russell Teibert next year? I'm having trouble reconciling spending buckets on development in a draft environment.

First off, players have to declare themselves eligible for the draft.

Secondly, MLS clubs can sign up to two players from their own Academy without having that player go through the draft. Those players would be Generation adidas, meaning their salary and roster spots would not be counted against their club's limit.

I believe (and this is based on knowledge before the new CBA, and even then it's hazy) that if a team already has two GenAd Academy players signed, they can still sign other players from their own academy, althuogh all exemptions will not apply, meaning that those players will count against the cap and against the roster restrictions.

Players, Gen Ad and otherwise, can only be signed by a club outside the draft of they have spend a minimum of two years with that team's academy.

[Kayto]

Apologies if my question seemed Red v. Blue. I just am curious about whether our pro teams will continue to invest in development (I hope they do) if one of their players can just be drafted away by the competition. Does anyone know?

[Richard]

This may not seem relevant to this thread but then again it might be dead relevant. What rights do TFC or the Caps have to protect players they develop in either program from being drafted away by another MLS team. My sense is there is some sort of gentlemen's agreement at present but couldn't TFC, or Chicago for that matter, draft an Adam Straith and have his MLS rights even though his German rights are owned by Cottbus. To take a domestic example is there anything preventing TFC from drafting Russell Teibert next year? I'm having trouble reconciling spending buckets on development in a draft environment.

Caps residency players are under contract to the Whitecaps organisation which is a condition of joining the program, though I am not sure what this means in terms of trades as I have not actually read one of the contracts. MLS has yet to clarify those aspects of their rules which are under revision anyway.

[Kayto]

I have Richard and nothing is said about the draft. I am just concerned that if all that a team can protect is two players (presumably per draft year or is it a total?) the alrady challenged economics of running an academy, particularily one with a residency component (something I beleive is crucial) become impossible. Perhaps this has more to do with the subject matter of this thread than long or short ball tactics.

[Macksam]

The Caps are lobbying for change Kayto, and according to Lenarduzzi, they seem to be making progress with MLS regarding the academy rules. Bobby L himself stated that the Caps made their intentions clear to MLS that they want to develop most of their players rather than draft them. Very admirable imo.

[Kayto]

Music to my ears Macksam and lets hope he succeeds. Does anyone know if TFC is joining in this lobby? I guess our argument would be that Canadian kids (and I know the Caps have international players in Residency) don't have the Bradenton, ODP programs that US kids have. If MLS would let the Caps, TFC and one day the Impact draw circles around each of three regions (say BC and the prairies/Ontario/Quebec and the Atlantic provinces) we can start dreaming of an endpoint for our development efforts. If you are right and the Caps get this then I have not made a valid suggestion for TN's leaving.

[Guest Ed]

From the Vancouver Province article previewing the Dallas Cup:

"Whereas Niendorf preached a possession game relatively full of personal freedom, Miller has had one month to implement the first-team focus on shape, defensive work and counterpunching. The hope is to ease the transition between programs.

"They changed the way they play completely, but it's good for me and Ethan because we're used to it," said Davies.

Is this what you Teitur boosters / TN bashers are all preaching??

[tmcmurph]

From the Vancouver Province article previewing the Dallas Cup:

"Whereas Niendorf preached a possession game relatively full of personal freedom, Miller has had one month to implement the first-team focus on shape, defensive work and counterpunching. The hope is to ease the transition between programs.

"They changed the way they play completely, but it's good for me and Ethan because we're used to it," said Davies.

Is this what you Teitur boosters / TN bashers are all preaching??

Well I've never bashed TN and I can see good and bad to both sides. If your primary goal is getting players to move up then having them play the same system is important but if you want versatile players then doing it TN's way was probably better.

PS. Caps res lost 0-3 to Frankfurt in their opener of the Dallas cup. I don't read a lot into one game loss but I was hoping they would repeat last year's trip to the finals.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

Well I've never bashed TN and I can see good and bad to both sides. If your primary goal is getting players to move up then having them play the same system is important but if you want versatile players then doing it TN's way was probably better.

PS. Caps res lost 0-3 to Frankfurt in their opener of the Dallas cup. I don't read a lot into one game loss but I was hoping they would repeat last year's trip to the finals.

yeah, but last year we qualified for it didn't we? This year I beilieve we were invited back due to being a finalist last year.

[jpg75]

Vancouver lost 1-0 to the US U19 NT, whoever that is, my guess is a team comprised of the best 91 born NCAA players and the top 92 born youth players. Caps are now eliminated and face the Mexican U19 NT that beat both the US and Frankfurt.

[Macksam]

Well I've never bashed TN and I can see good and bad to both sides. If your primary goal is getting players to move up then having them play the same system is important but if you want versatile players then doing it TN's way was probably better.

I think the most important thing is skill development. As long as that is being done, how the team plays isn't as much of an issue. The playing style will probably change as the years go by anyhow.

[SthMelbRed]

http://www.whitecapsfc.com/archive/feature03281001.aspx

Miller won't have the residency job for much longer. Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi said the club expects to hire Niendorf's replacement in the next month and Miller will be back to a full-time role with the men.

"There are people putting their names forward and we also have some candidates in mind," Lenarduzzi said.