Interview with Carlos Rivas Jr.

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Eric is upset with me ever since I suggested he was obsessed with Maradona's dick and what Diego had to say about it, and quite rightly. I should have just let him go at it alone.

And in this in the end Eric and I agree this one thing, that there is a sense of discrimination in our program against certain types of leagues to play in and certain types of players, and even though a lot of that has broken down over the years, it is still there. Deliberate discrimination I don't know, maybe not, but obstinate ignorance leading to discrimination, I think so.

As you said Jeffrey, we do agree in that one thing but in regards to Maradona's dick, you are the only one who keeps talking about it and not for nothing you move to Spain, maybe it was to have more of that kind of spanish dick it seems, but that's ok, what ever turns you on. I could be wrong though []

[canucklefan]

quote:Originally posted by Ian Kennett

 

Who is your favourite player in the world, and why?

My favorite player is Sebastian Veron who is currently playing for Independiente in Argentina. The way he touches, sends longs balls and reads the game makes him one of the best center midfielders I have ever seen.

 

I can't believe the guy missed where Veron plays, as he's Copa Libetadores champion with Estudiantes and played the Club World Cup final against Barcelona.

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by Macksam

Even though I agree with you for the most part, and share your sentiments towards Jeffrey, choosing Barcelona to criticize was a horrible example. 7 out of the 11 starters for them in the Champion's League final were Spanish, domestic players. They play Spanish football at it's very essence. Insinuating they play South American football just makes you look pretentious.

Please name those 7 spanish starters and check their birth place. And when you have some time please look at videos of how Spain used to play before they started importing South American players and coaches, you'll be surprised. Spanish football has no essence and never had a style, their game was always based on individualism and most national teams were based on either Real Madrid or Barcelona players and as a national team they are big time under achievers.

[canucklefan]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

But who are those players who have been discriminated because they were playing in South America? The only guy who had any kind of success was Menezes.

I think it's more a question of numbers that discrimination. Canadians in South American leagues is a rarity so you can't expect us to have many option for call ups over there. While in Europe we have a lot of players. So when guys like Edgar, Ledgerwood, Ornoch to name a few, aren't called, we aren't talking about discrimination.

BTW, I'm all for giving Rivas a look, just like Dasovic did with Sanchez 2 yrs ago with the U-23.

He already played with the U20, however he just played 2 friendly games and I'm not confident in giving him a look for the MNT, about his playing time with his club, he didn't play at all during the torneo Clausura 2009. If a Canadian club would like to have a look at him, for me that's fair enough.

[redhat]

I really don't see why we shouldn't take a closer look at Rivas, especially if he's a player who WANTS to play for Canada.

We've given chances to Dominic Imhof, Stathis Kappos, Mark Rogers, Issey Nakajima-Farran, Charles Gbeke, and Olivier Occean. You never know who's going to pan out and when, so rather than judge the league, let's judge the player on the pitch. He could either be another Dwayne de Rosario, or another mythical Joey Torchia.

[redhat]

I really don't see why we shouldn't take a closer look at Rivas, especially if he's a player who WANTS to play for Canada.

We've given chances to Dominic Imhof, Stathis Kappos, Mark Rogers, Issey Nakajima-Farran, Charles Gbeke, and Olivier Occean. You never know who's going to pan out and when, so rather than judge the league, let's judge the player on the pitch. He could either be another Dwayne de Rosario, or another mythical Joey Torchia.

[Sam]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

And in this in the end Eric and I agree this one thing, that there is a sense of discrimination in our program against certain types of leagues to play in and certain types of players, and even though a lot of that has broken down over the years, it is still there. Deliberate discrimination I don't know, maybe not, but obstinate ignorance leading to discrimination, I think so.

Overall I think there is a very Euro-centric discrimination towards South American teams. Since Canada's soccer community is very euro-centric the pattern carries on.

Especially in England people just don't rate South American leagues, when Brazil and Argentina bring a bunch load of domestic players to the world cup lots of European media says that they are crap just on the basis they don't know much about them.

But I'm not just picking on Europe I think its a general flaw in soccer that when people aren't familiar with a certain region, league, team or player they are inclined to think there crap to cover the fact they haven't heard of them before.

I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert on the Chilean league, in fact I'm very very very very very very very far from it, but I'm not going to throw it and Rivas out as being crap because I never watch the Chilean league and I've never seen Rivas play.

[Eric]

^ That's a very good analysis.

[Juby]

quote:Originally posted by redhat

I really don't see why we shouldn't take a closer look at Rivas, especially if he's a player who WANTS to play for Canada.

We've given chances to Dominic Imhof, Stathis Kappos, Mark Rogers, Issey Nakajima-Farran, Charles Gbeke, and Olivier Occean. You never know who's going to pan out and when, so rather than judge the league, let's judge the player on the pitch. He could either be another Dwayne de Rosario, or another mythical Joey Torchia.

yeah we have remarkably little to lose right now and that list show some good pieces we've gained just taking a chance. and seriously, jeff and eric, stop talking about maradona's youhoo, belittle eachothers characters like well adjusted adults do, lewdness is a little much here I think.

edit: you know, it's not nice to say but alot of englanders and europeans really don't seem to know much at all about south american football. I remember one time here some guy from england asks, who's river plate? I may be a bit of a snob but come on, it's not even like they call it rio platanese (maybe that translation isn't right) in argentina, it's river plate, the argentinian club, founded by englishman, amoung the greatest in the world.

[The Ref]

Considering that Chile with its Chilean players finished just 1 point behind Brazil in their qualification for the WC in South Africa, I conclude that they are not only doing things right, but their players are skillful and top class. Have we forgotten the soccer lessons that Chile gave at the U20 WC right here in Canada. Surely all these facts do not signify that Carlos Rivas is a super star, but to me the simple fact that he plays in the Chilean pro league is good enough to earn him a tryout right here at home.

[franx]

I've followed the chilean league on and off since 1994, and it sure has improved a lot....It's still not on par with Brazil and Argentina's leagues, but a lot of skill....and they seem to keep their talent a little bit longer then before.....but for sure we should consider a guy playing in the first division over there!!...we are a soccer nation getting excited about calling bench players and backups from 2nd division weaker euro leagues....

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by Juby

edit: you know, it's not nice to say but alot of englanders and europeans really don't seem to know much at all about south american football. I remember one time here some guy from england asks, who's river plate? I may be a bit of a snob but come on, it's not even like they call it rio platanese (maybe that translation isn't right) in argentina, it's river plate, the argentinian club, founded by englishman, amoung the greatest in the world.

LOL....it's not nice to say but alot of englanders and europeans really don't seem to know much at all about south american football.....don't worry it's just the truth.

“The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.”

Elbert Hubbard

[Tuscan]

quote:Originally posted by redhat

...so rather than judge the league, let's judge the player on the pitch.

Yes! That is what I feel this year needs to focus on. Let's give some guys a chance to show what they can do.

When it comes to lower divisional players from Europe, which to me always signifies Simeon Jackson, at least in his case we must all be able to agree that he is a League Championship quality player who will hopefully make the move this month. Just because they're playing in a division or two below the top flight in their league doesn't mean they might not be worth at least a trot out on the field.

[BearcatSA]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

^ Let's be realistic here, we're Canada not Chile or Denmark. Players who are not starters in their leagues can perfectly be starters in our MNT!!! many world cup squads have players who are not regulars in their teams, all of a sudden we're too good to do that? most MLS players would be bench wormers in Europe or South America anyway and many of our EU players in the MNT are bench wormers already, so let's not kid ourselves.

Well, I have highlighted these two statements because they outline a part of the problem our MNT has had in recent WCQ failures, and they underline the lack of competition within the squad. Hart's goal should be to build up this depth and create legitimate competition for places, taking chances on new faces, sitting vets who are running on their reputations yet underachieving, etc. I don't care where guys play as long as they can produce for our MNT. And it's a blank slate right now, so a guy like Rivas has as valid a shot as anyone else.

[Guest Ed]

Bench wormer is a new one for me. Do they get splinters too?

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

Bench wormer is a new one for me.

Wow, we have an english teacher here. You can call it bench warmer if you like!!!! [)]

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by leafdolfan

And where was Norway ranked in the World Cup draw?

Still a ridiculous way to rank leagues. For example the Dutch team far outstrips the Dutch league.

I don't really know about the quality of the Chilean league, but with a camp coming up outside of a FIFA date I'd throw him some bait and give him a call up.

Here are the top 30 IFFHS 2008 league rankings.....where's the MLS?

http://forums.cfcnet.co.uk/index.php?/topic/40827-iffhs-league-ranking/

1. Barclay’s Premier League (England)

2. Serie A (Italy)

3. Primera Division Argentina

4. La Liga BBVA (Spain)

5. Bundesliga (Germany)

6. Ligue 1 (France)

7. Brasileiro Serie A (Brazil)

8. Primera Division de Mexico

9. Liga Sagres (Portugal)

10. Ukraine Premier League

11. Turkey

12. Greece

13. Netherlands

14. Chile

15. Peru

16. Colombia

17. Russia

18. Denmark

19. Belgium

20. Scotland

21. Romania

22. Uruguay

23. Paraguay

24. Ecuador

25. Czech Republic

26. Tunisia

27. Japan

28. Egypt

29. Cameron

30. Switzerland

Here is the info about the 2009

http://www.epltalk.com/premier-league-ranked-best-in-the-world-by-iffhs/10043

wow....MLS 77th.....

http://www.iffhs.de/?b6e20fa3002f70d00ee2d17f7370eff3702bb1c2bb0e

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

most MLS players would be bench wormers in Europe or South America anyway and many of our EU players in the MNT are bench wormers already, so let's not kid ourselves.

Like Mo Edu at Rangers a club that were in a UEFA Cup final less than two years ago? When people talk about "Europe" they should bear in mind that there is a massive gulf in quality between the Premiership and serie A games that are shown regularly on Rogers Sportsnet and TLN on the one hand and what happens in run of the mill games played in smaller European countries with full-time professionalism like Scotland and Denmark and even more so with those played in what are effectively semi-pro national leagues like Finland and Lithuania on the other.

[Eric]

^ I knew somebody would come up with a comment like that, you obviously didn't read the word MOST which is different from ALL, in case you didn't know!!!!! and yes he is one of the rare exceptions.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Just want to add that when I followed him at La Serena he played very little, and the team was a modest side in top flight that year. But he has stepped up, he is on a strong team. Perhaps he needs more playing time, but at least he was signed up, not down.

The problem we have had, I think, is not just where players play, but how calling them in affects the overall national team. I have heard that when Kusch was in 2nd division Sweden, at Myällby, and got called up that many players were outraged by the idea that he should have got so many opportunities ahead of others. We have to get the idea out that if you want to play for Canada you have to take the steps up with your club play too. We should never have had to call up Kenny playing 2nd tier Scandinavia, and we should be very cautious about rewarding a USL player with a cap unless he is either young or we are very desperate to fill positions on a roster.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

^ I knew somebody would come up with a comment like that, you obviously didn't read the word MOST which is different from ALL, in case you didn't know!!!!! and yes he is one of the rare exceptions.

In the games immediately before he left Edu looked like the weak link in TFC's central midfield alongside Robinson and Guevara. I honestly didn't think he was going to make the impact he has at Ibrox as quickly as he has. Beyond that you are ignoring the rest of my post. Plenty of MLS players have moved to countries like Denmark and Norway and have done well. There is a huge difference in quality between games there and games in the Premiership and serie A. People talk about "Europe" when they only really have the top five leagues or so in mind in terms of quality. A player like Eddie Johnson has struggled to make an impact at that sort of level but I suspect he will do better in Greece.

[Eric]

^ Agree, you got a point. The leagues are definitely very different.

[nolando]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Just want to add that when I followed him at La Serena he played very little, and the team was a modest side in top flight that year. But he has stepped up, he is on a strong team. Perhaps he needs more playing time, but at least he was signed up, not down.

The problem we have had, I think, is not just where players play, but how calling them in affects the overall national team. I have heard that when Kusch was in 2nd division Sweden, at Myällby, and got called up that many players were outraged by the idea that he should have got so many opportunities ahead of others. We have to get the idea out that if you want to play for Canada you have to take the steps up with your club play too. We should never have had to call up Kenny playing 2nd tier Scandinavia, and we should be very cautious about rewarding a USL player with a cap unless he is either young or we are very desperate to fill positions on a roster.

Careful of what?

Offending the sensibility of only the most arrogant of players who might think that they earn caps merely by playing at a higher level club. Nonsense.

It's like the Friend vs Gerba debate(which for the record I don't want to re-ignite here). If one guy scores for Canada every second time he steps on the pitch, I could care less if plays in Lesser Bullbekistan's second division vs his Bundesliga or England-based competition.

I get the sense that you are suggesting that many Canadians not playing first team football this season (or toiling in Europe's second divisions) are lethargic or unambitious, but I see quite often as a case of being bumped out of the side by any number of things (often) out of their control like nagging injuries or arbitrary managerial decisions, sometimes based on the fact that they have decided to play for their national side. Yes it's easy to overevaluate our beloved Canucks, but there as many who never got the chance to trial at a better club through no real fault of their own, and not necessarily through some glaring absence of skill or potential.

If we have players who play in better leagues who PLAY BETTER IN A CANADIAN SHIRT than players in lower leagues then, by all means, give them the regular minutes they deserve. It's obvious to me that we run into so many problems with our program because quite often our best players on paper HAVE NOT been the best players on the field.

If anything I think Hart has to make a point of NOT playing the highest rated players by default unless they are prepared to play like all-stars, and League MVPs and Bundesliga snipers while wearing red and white.

[Macksam]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

Please name those 7 spanish starters and check their birth place. And when you have some time please look at videos of how Spain used to play before they started importing South American players and coaches, you'll be surprised. Spanish football has no essence and never had a style, their game was always based on individualism and most national teams were based on either Real Madrid or Barcelona players and as a national team they are big time under achievers.

Xavi - Terrassa, Spain

Iniesta - Fuentealbilla, Spain

Puyol - La Pobla de Segur, Spain

Pique - Barcelona, Spain

Valdes - L'Hospitalet de Llobregat, Spain

Busquets - Sabadell, Spain

Alright, I miscounted, but still a majority never the less. Well, Pedro did come on late so that makes seven Spanish players making an appearance. Oh, what the hell;

Pedro - Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain

Sure, Spain before had their national team problems and a lot of their style is influenced by other countries like the Netherlands and what not. However, out of that influence, they evolved and made their own style. If you watch Barcelona play, you would see that it's not Messi who dictates how they play. It's their two central midfielders, Xavi and Iniesta.

[nedved9]

Lets give this guy a call...