can we create a government for the voyageurs?

[hodgkiss]

listen, this doesn't have to be complex but i think it would be a great idae taht we have some more structure here. and i know this has been brought up before but maybe it's time to do this again because it's a new year, a new coach, a new direction and a new world cup campaign (2014).

firstly, can we establish (based on how many v's are in which areas) a captain/s for each area? i.e. (quebec - 4? (3) montreal, (1) quebec city

or (b.c. - 4? (3) vancouver, (1) victoria

this would obviously need some feedback from each sector/province and it's members. as to who would like to represent and who would not like to etc.

the point of this would be to meet as small groups first, then hopefully larger groups within our province so that we can record information pertaining to our members, discussion, the future of games/travel support etc.

i would like to volunteer to help get us started in the toronto area. i can help coordinate and i have many ideas that i would like to get off the ground.

i'm not suer i would like the role of a captain but i would certainly help. and i think captains should be voted in and we could have elections every year or two years so things keep changing with the times.

just looking for some feedback now guys but i think most of us feel that we need to take thsi to another level at some point. and i don't think it's fair to anyone that maybe certain groups of v's will be doing this and others won't have a say.

just looking out for everyone here.

[redhat]

Wrong section, mate. Please post in the Voyageurs thread. Thanks.

[hodgkiss]

here's just a rough idea of possible numbers. this is by no means how i see things. this is just to get the numbers going. any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

YUKON - 1

(1) dawson?

NWT - 1

(1) yellowknife?

NUNAVUT - 1

(1) iqaluit

BRITISH COLUMBIA - 5

(2) vancouver

(1) victoria

(1) prince george

(1) kamloops

ALBERTA - 5

(2) edmonton

(2) calgary

(1) fort mcmurray

SASKATCHEWAN - 3

(2) regina

(1) saskatoon

MANITOBA - 3

(2) winnipeg

(1) churchill

ONTARIO - 7

(2) toronto

(2) ottawa

(1) kingston

(1) windsor

(1) niagara

thunder bay?

sudbury?

QUEBEC - 4

(3) montreal

(1) quebec

NEW BRUNSWICK - 2

(2) fredricton

PEI - 1

(1) charlottetown

NOVA SCOTIA - 2

(2) halifax

NEWFOUNDLAND + LABRADOR - 1

(1) st. johns's

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by hodgkiss

here's just a rough idea of possible numbers. this is by no means how i see things. this is just to get the numbers going. any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

YUKON - 1

(1) dawson?

NWT - 1

(1) yellowknife?

NUNAVUT - 1

(1) iqaluit

BRITISH COLUMBIA - 5

(2) vancouver

(1) victoria

(1) prince george

(1) kamloops

ALBERTA - 5

(2) edmonton

(2) calgary

(1) fort mcmurray

SASKATCHEWAN - 3

(2) regina

(1) saskatoon

MANITOBA - 3

(2) winnipeg

(1) churchill

ONTARIO - 7

(2) toronto

(2) ottawa

(1) kingston

(1) windsor

(1) niagara

thunder bay?

sudbury?

QUEBEC - 4

(3) montreal

(1) quebec

NEW BRUNSWICK - 2

(2) fredricton

PEI - 1

(1) charlottetown

NOVA SCOTIA - 2

(2) halifax

NEWFOUNDLAND + LABRADOR - 1

(1) st. johns's

That would be about as effective as the CSA BoG.

[Sam]

There was serious talk about this a year or so ago. I was seriously against it and still am.

We are a group of supporters who go around the world supporting our national team, our club teams and our players abroad. We aren't here to implement a new Canadian soccer structure as Duane says - that's the CSA's job.

We're here to support the team and get as many other Canadians as we possibly can to support the team.

[Sam]

There was serious talk about this a year or so ago. I was seriously against it and still am.

We are a group of supporters who go around the world supporting our national team, our club teams and our players abroad. We aren't here to implement a new Canadian soccer structure as Duane says - that's the CSA's job.

We're here to support the team and get as many other Canadians as we possibly can to support the team.

[Guest Ed]

Only if I get two seats.

[Razcle]

quote:Originally posted by leafdolfan

There was serious talk about this a year or so ago. I was seriously against it and still am.

We are a group of supporters who go around the world supporting our national team, our club teams and our players abroad. We aren't here to implement a new Canadian soccer structure as Duane says - that's the CSA's job.

We're here to support the team and get as many other Canadians as we possibly can to support the team.

I could be wrong but I don't think hodgkiss is trying to implement a new CSA structure. He is trying to bring structure to our group for organizing home support, Away support, viewing parties, mabye the Toronto Soccer trade show, and anything other way we can help show our support and encourage Canadians to jump aboard.

I for one completely agree with his initiative, although I think we need to start off smaller before we could ever grow to that size. Duane's comments are just suggesting that your list of Captains is far too large to ever be effective.

If you belong to a club supporters group you will completely understand the lack of structure we have around here; and although I love who we are and what we have accomplished to date, I think a little structure could go a long way to creating ourselves a larger army of passionate Canadian supporters.

But maybe I am not understanding your comments.

[Guest speedmonk42]

Keep it ad hoc.

The only thing we really need is a better system for seat allocation and security at games.

[hodgkiss]

razcale's got it!

i just basically think we need some organization here as it seems to be lacking quite a bit. the truth is, all the heart seems to be in the right place but we need to get together somewhat regularly to be effective - for ourselves and for the importance of marketing and the voyageurs and making others aware that we even exist!

the other stuff could come as we ourselves become more organized.

seeing some of us are in the toronto area and i am interested in doing this, would anyone else like to start meeting together to get this off the ground?

maybe early to mid january seeing we have a friendly on jan 31st?

[masster]

I agree that structure/organization is required for this group. Ad hoc may work for club supporters groups where members see eacj other regularily. I do'nt think that is that case with us. Look at initiatives like the Soccer show and Holiday cards and stuff like that. We should have a set way of going about these things.

[The Ref]

I believe that before we start dividing the country, electing Captains or a BoG, we need to register as a society first. This has been discussed many times before and opinions have always been divided. Although we don't have a structure, we seem to get things done just the same.

[hodgkiss]

we do tend to get things done. but is it done to the best of our ability? probably not. if things were organized, we would have things like the christmas card all planned out ahead of time and it would look amazing. we would have a database of names for a mailing address so we wouldn't have to start a thread to get everyone to add addresses.

or when it came time for a soccer trade show... we would send people that we all feel comfortable with. as it stands right now, having volunteers fill the role of community relations isn't really the ideal situation. i'm not saying the volunteers this year are not worthy but what do we really know about these people? and they are spreading the word about who we all are.

speaking of... who are we? before we start going out there and marketing ourselves, we should have a good idea of who we are and what we are providing. we need a marketing objective and a creative way to approach our target market. ad hoc marketing will NEVER be as effective as marketing that is planned and achieved.

[El Hombre]

I think formalizing things would be a lot of work for relatively little reward. For everything you mention above, you'd still need volunteers to carry out the tasks because the "elected officials" will still have day jobs and may not be able to go to soccer shows or have the time to properly put together Christmas cards. Or, if they do, then you leaving a lot of responsibility with fairly few people.

Plus, you'll run the risk of either alienating a good portion of the guys that come here as this group is nationwide and not located in one large center or you'll end up with an organization that is all-inclusive but too cumbersome to actually get anything done.

I've met a fair number of Voyageurs face-to-face from all across the country. To a man, every one I've met is a stand-up guy. I think hand picking a certain few to carry the load for the rest of us would be too much work for some and wouldn't use the skills of the collective to its fullest.

If you want things done better, engage yourself in the debate earlier. If you think the Christmas card distribution could be better, set a reminder in your Outlook calendar for Nov. 1st, 2010 to bring this up.

[hodgkiss]

well even though i will remain a voyageur, i think i may just have to start something else with some others that may be interested. i guess we'll see what happens.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by hodgkiss

we do tend to get things done. but is it done to the best of our ability? probably not. if things were organized, we would have things like the christmas card all planned out ahead of time and it would look amazing. we would have a database of names for a mailing address so we wouldn't have to start a thread to get everyone to add addresses.

or when it came time for a soccer trade show... we would send people that we all feel comfortable with. as it stands right now, having volunteers fill the role of community relations isn't really the ideal situation. i'm not saying the volunteers this year are not worthy but what do we really know about these people? and they are spreading the word about who we all are.

speaking of... who are we? before we start going out there and marketing ourselves, we should have a good idea of who we are and what we are providing. we need a marketing objective and a creative way to approach our target market. ad hoc marketing will NEVER be as effective as marketing that is planned and achieved.

If you think the Christmas cards can be improved, get involved with the project. If nobody is taking ownership of it, step up to the plate.

If there is a soccer trade show that is of interest to you, post the details and take ownership of it.

If you want to initiate a fund raising drive, just do it. Simply state to our members where the money is going and follow through. It's no different than what I just did with the Canadian autographed game jersey from Gold Cup or Razcle did with the scarves and shirts.

I'm certain nobody will take exception to it.

As for community relations, many of our members are well known from coast-to coast and have formally dealt with everyone from the CSA to the full strata of Canadian professional clubs and media, among others.

The Voyageurs are about building bridges and trusted established relationships are the cornerstone to this endeavour.

What we accomplished in the past couple of years has been nothing short of phenomenal: We have a solid working relationship with all the major Canadian club supporter sites, and with the exception of Ultras Montreal, all have permanent links to our forum on their sites. The Voyageurs Cup has become the de facto national league with nationally televised games and will soon sit in the Canadian Soccer Hall of Fame. Our registered forum numbers have more than doubled in the past couple of years, this despite a disastrous World Cup. Formal Voyageurs zones were established for all our home games for World Cup qualifying. This just to name a few........

I think many underestimate the magnitude of our accomplishments. I doubt a high profile paid V's President could have accomplished half what we have done in recent years. We are entering our 15 year (?) and the best is yet to come.

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by hodgkiss

well even though i will remain a voyageur, i think i may just have to start something else with some others that may be interested. i guess we'll see what happens.

My intent wasn't to discourage you. I was just giving my opinion.

I could be in the minority for sure.

[hodgkiss]

in fairness, the things listed were just examples of things that could be improved. not for me personally. if you guys don't mind, i would like to look at the overall picture from a marketing perspective (and if anyone else is interested) to help us define who we are and where we see ourselves going. and how we're going to do it.

so maybe over the next couple of weeks, i will start to raft some rough questions etc that can be stickied in the voyageurs board and we can go from there.

would anyone have a problem with this?

[Gordon]

The problem with anything beyond the informal structure we have is that there is seldom a lot of agreement about most things. For example, if VPjr and Mediaguy had tried to do their excellent black t-shirt protest and reform/replace the CSA intiative through the Voyageurs it would not have happened (and in my opinion most if not all the strides made by the CSA since are directly attributal to that venture so again, well done guys) as a number were against it.

[hodgkiss]

just like the idea i had about purchasing all the tickets for the can jam game in toronto. i know a lot of us ended up buying quite a few tickets so that we could ensure that we woudl get tickets in the hands of canadian supporters.

and without a doubt, i believe that these kinds of things can work. but to be organized could bring things to a new level!

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by hodgkiss

just like the idea i had about purchasing all the tickets for the can jam game in toronto. i know a lot of us ended up buying quite a few tickets so that we could ensure that we woudl get tickets in the hands of canadian supporters.

and without a doubt, i believe that these kinds of things can work. but to be organized could bring things to a new level!

Without a functioning high level of organization, none of the above would have been accomplished.

[themodelcitizen]

keep me posted Hodgkiss. One thing I might add is London/Windsor could perhaps be a joint camp.

[peter_tfc]

As a fringe/newby fanatic (and the growing majority apparently) I think both hodgkiss and Fury make good points.

To paraphrase both:

hodkiss - formalize structure to make it easier for the fringe/newby Voyageurs to get onboard and comfortable

Winnipeg Fury - things get done by the diehards whether the fringe/newbies are involved or not

I'm siding with Fury since things do seem to be working well, but if anyone on this board says meet at a bar in Toronto on a certain January day for a Toronto based Voyageur appreciation/meet-up day I will be there.

And finally, I always think of Scotland when I think of supporter culture - the Tartan Army are legendary - does anyone know how they work? Is it just to do the Scottish FAs support?

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by peter_tfc

As a fringe/newby fanatic (and the growing majority apparently) I think both hodgkiss and Fury make good points.

To paraphrase both:

hodkiss - formalize structure to make it easier for the fringe/newby Voyageurs to get onboard and comfortable

Winnipeg Fury - things get done by the diehards whether the fringe/newbies are involved or not

I'm siding with Fury since things do seem to be working well, but if anyone on this board says meet at a bar in Toronto on a certain January day for a Toronto based Voyageur appreciation/meet-up day I will be there.

By all means, get together in TO. All over for that matter.

In Winnipeg, we have gatherings every chance we get, and it's usually initiated around national team games and sometimes pro games, Voyageurs Cup, etc. On special occasions (black shirt protest, Gold Cup, etc), we have invited the local media. We have already had local discussions pertaining to gathering for Canada's match in Jamaica on January 31. Sometimes I organize the local gatherings, usually it's done by Redhat or Cheeta. It doesn't matter, we are all invited and new faces are always welcome. Issues are discussed and good times are had.

You don't need official sanctioning, pointy hat and title to organize and initiate action. Look what Toronto MB achieved this year in terms of Voyageurs media coverage at the Gold Cup. In the words of Nike, "Just Do It."

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by peter_tfc

As a fringe/newby fanatic (and the growing majority apparently) I think both hodgkiss and Fury make good points.

To paraphrase both:

hodkiss - formalize structure to make it easier for the fringe/newby Voyageurs to get onboard and comfortable

Winnipeg Fury - things get done by the diehards whether the fringe/newbies are involved or not

I'm siding with Fury since things do seem to be working well, but if anyone on this board says meet at a bar in Toronto on a certain January day for a Toronto based Voyageur appreciation/meet-up day I will be there.

By all means, get together in TO. All over for that matter.

In Winnipeg, we have gatherings every chance we get, and it's usually initiated around national team games and sometimes pro games, Voyageurs Cup, etc. On special occasions (black shirt protest, Gold Cup, etc), we have invited the local media. We have already had local discussions pertaining to gathering for Canada's match in Jamaica on January 31. Sometimes I organize the local gatherings, usually it's done by Redhat or Cheeta. It doesn't matter, we are all invited and new faces are always welcome. Issues are discussed and good times are had.

You don't need official sanctioning, pointy hat and title to organize and initiate action. Look what Toronto MB achieved this year in terms of Voyageurs media coverage at the Gold Cup. In the words of Nike, "Just Do It."