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Canadian Soccer Roundtable 2009


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Well, if you mention the overachievement of Brazil, you also have to mention Argentina and Uruguay, all with low GDP and Uruguay with a population of only 3.4 million, all three winners of world cups, Copa America and Intercontinental cups. All three are amongst the best exporters of talent in the world of soccer, which is in the only category where I would include Holland, because as a winning country is very far away from any of these three SA countries. I also have to disagree with what you called Holland's tradition of success, one Euro championship is a tradition?

Culture of excellence? we have that in hockey and skating so is not an alien concept in our sporting world.

Survival of the fittest mentality? we have that too in hockey, but we still treat soccer as a recreational/baby sitting/non violent sport where you don't need to be that good to be part of it sort of thing.

Now we come to the part you called "the passing on of knowledge from experts within those countries" that is one thing for sure we don't have here and many people in our soccer community wishes that we'll never have it.

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quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

Does being "CANADIAN" mean suddenly transforming yourself into a cultural clone of Anne Murray, Stompin Tom Connors and Don Cherry? Given soccer isn't traditionally part of that type of Canadian culture and for the most part has penetrated it no further than being a recreational activity for kids at this point, would that not mean being a baseball, football and/or hockey fan who views soccer with disdain? The reality is that soccer is first and foremost an integral part of this type of cultural experience in a Canadian context at the moment:-

Whether people like it or not appointing Stephen Hart does not send that signal for many people and John Molinaro isn't being ignorant or malevolent in his views. He is just providing people with the reality of the situation as he sees it.

We're not like the US with our views on soccer. It's actually quite respected over here compared to down south.

As for this Molinaro character, I don't know who he is but saying we're not going to make 2014 is pretty dumb and ignorant.

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quote:Originally posted by Macksam

I thought we were living in the new world. Regionalism should be left in the old one. Let it go.

I agree with masster.

As far as problem's with the National team goes, it won't matter what province or region your in. You may get different opinions about how to achieve success but there's no doubt there's a consensus that it has to be better.

When it comes to development, grass roots and how clubs and provincial bodies are run, you need a wider range of voices to discuss the problems in Canada. Problems in Ontario are different than they are in Alberta, Quebec, BC etc... Take a National coaching licence with coaches from around the country. As you sit and talk about the challenges they face and you get a wide range of problems that aren't the same. The only thing they do agree on is losing the Provincial programs.

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This Euro stuff has to stop.When I came to Canada it seems that soccer was a total Euro sport.Even today it seems that almost all competitive players have at least one foreign parent.Competitive soccer among Canadians is not here yet.For some historical reason soccer is European and yet to be accepted by ALL Canadians.It is so frustrating to me to always be confronted by those that say,soccer will never be big or overtake or replace hockey.We are up against that great fear and what do you do.I do believe in that two main sport system,play soccer in the summer and hockey in the winter.The Europeans kept soccer alive and kicking but it seems to me that this can and will be changed.I do know that on the girls side competitive or rep soccer is much more accepted by the Canadian parents and that is why the game received more media attention.As a case in point how many that play for Canada have two Canadian parents.We still have a long way ahead of us to see the Canadian parents get their kids to play competitive soccer or for that matter be very good at it.Yet,when we won the Gold medal in the Olympics in 1904 all had Canadianh parents and the game was very Canadian and from the roots up.The team that went to Brittain in 1888 was made up of players that were all born in Canada and learned to play the game here.

It would be interesting to see what went wrong and when it all started.Who are the culprits who changed that Canadian soccer face.

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quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

I agree that a differing voice is ideal because a love-in makes for pretty boring reading. However, Molinaro brings nothing to the table other than:

1) Canada is not good.

2) Canada will never be good.

3) We should hire Guus Hiddink if we want to be good.

Why not present something constructive rather than being dismissive. Maybe something along the lines of: We don't have the talent right now, but if we get A, B and C by 2012 then maybe we might make the Hex.

Agreed. Just saying we're not going to make it is not going to "round" out the debate.

quote:Originally posted by 442_lover

Just look at Chile. None of the starting 11 is a big time talent and most of them play in the domestic league with exception a few players playing in 2nd tier league (Turkey, Portugal, English Championship and so on...). How is this any different from our current Canadian setup?

Portgual is not a 2nd tier league, and it's a whole lot better than the English Championship.

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quote:Originally posted by Macksam

We're not like the US with our views on soccer. It's actually quite respected over here compared to down south.

As for this Molinaro character, I don't know who he is but saying we're not going to make 2014 is pretty dumb and ignorant.

What?

This is a pretty legit claim IMO. "Canada is not gonna make it to the 2014 WC" is a statement any respected pundit from a "soccer country" could say without it being call ignorant and dumb.

If you ask me if we are gonna make it, I would tell you we have 20 % chance of going to Brazil. That's how I see it right now.

I thing the criticism toward Molinaro are because in this case his opinions are lacking a little bit of substance but I'm pretty sure he could very well justify it with some good arguments.

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quote:Originally posted by Macksam

^^^Yeah, but he doesn't back it up and that's what it comes down to.

Well, I didn't back it up too. ;)

Look at the context of his answer (no matter who the coach is, Canada won't make it to 2014) and you could clearly imply that he is referring to a lack of talent and maybe a problem with the leadership (CSA).

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All due respect, but it's the National Team that has not qualified for the World Cup since 86. It's really up to them to disprove Mr. Molinaro. He does not really have to back it up with anything more than simply looking at history.

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quote:Originally posted by Macksam

I thought we were living in the new world. Regionalism should be left in the old one. Let it go.

Shouldn't the panel be representative of the topic they are discussing? Who in that group can speak first hand about the USL Champion Monteal Impact? Wasn't that a pretty significant story in 'Canadian' soccer in 2009? This has nothing to do with regionalism and everything to do with getting the best people possible to talk about the biggest Canadian soccer stories in 2009. I don't know if 8 guys from Toronto, 1 from Winnipeg and 1 from Victoria accomplishes that.

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quote:Originally posted by Eric

Well, if you mention the overachievement of Brazil, you also have to mention Argentina and Uruguay, all with low GDP and Uruguay with a population of only 3.4 million, all three winners of world cups, Copa America and Intercontinental cups. All three are amongst the best exporters of talent in the world of soccer, which is in the only category where I would include Holland, because as a winning country is very far away from any of these three SA countries. I also have to disagree with what you called Holland's tradition of success, one Euro championship is a tradition?

Eric, these are not my statements, i'm only repeating what the author mentioned on the Footy Show last night.

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quote:Originally posted by masster

Shouldn't the panel be representative of the topic they are discussing? Who in that group can speak first hand about the USL Champion Monteal Impact? Wasn't that a pretty significant story in 'Canadian' soccer in 2009? This has nothing to do with regionalism and everything to do with getting the best people possible to talk about the biggest Canadian soccer stories in 2009. I don't know if 8 guys from Toronto, 1 from Winnipeg and 1 from Victoria accomplishes that.

Do you know how many times I've opened it up to give someone from outside the GTA access to the 24th Minute? Unedited, to get that "rest of Canada" perspective? Lots.

*crickets*

Yes, I live in the GTA. I've also lived in Alberta, Saskatchewan, PEI, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. Frankly, I find the idea that I can't speak to things that are relevant to all Canadians ludicrous.

We're not that different. Really.

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quote:Originally posted by Chaos

All due respect, but it's the National Team that has not qualified for the World Cup since 86. It's really up to them to disprove Mr. Molinaro. He does not really have to back it up with anything more than simply looking at history.

I look at things in a very different light. Since 1993 to up until a couple years ago, our national team has been competitive with the rest of Concacaf at the very least. I mean, we haven't been good by any means, but I think we can all agree that we can still hold our own against any country within this federation on our good days. We have been able to do so without any professional league or professional development structure to boot.

Now it's 2010 and we are on the verge of having the 3 professional clubs in this country playing at the highest league in the United States and Canada, with all three of them taking somewhat of an active part in youth development, we have some of our key national team players playing domestically, we have the CSA starting to look a little bit more professional, and we have seen the general interest in the sport rise.

I'm not advocating that we be blindly optimistic, but being blindly pessimistic is just as bad. This last decade was pretty dreadful no doubt, but I think we can expect an improvement throughout the 2010s considering we are in a more favourable situation than we were throughout years that followed the turn of the century.

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quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

Do you know how many times I've opened it up to give someone from outside the GTA access to the 24th Minute? Unedited, to get that "rest of Canada" perspective? Lots.

*crickets*

Yes, I live in the GTA. I've also lived in Alberta, Saskatchewan, PEI, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. Frankly, I find the idea that I can't speak to things that are relevant to all Canadians ludicrous.

We're not that different. Really.

C'mon, you can't tell the difference between one set of beady eyes and flapping heads from the other?

East coast

715_image_15.jpg

French Canada

715_image_07.jpg

West of the Ottawa River

south-park-canada-on-strike.jpg

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quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

Do you know how many times I've opened it up to give someone from outside the GTA access to the 24th Minute? Unedited, to get that "rest of Canada" perspective? Lots.

*crickets*

Yes, I live in the GTA. I've also lived in Alberta, Saskatchewan, PEI, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. Frankly, I find the idea that I can't speak to things that are relevant to all Canadians ludicrous.

We're not that different. Really.

Please read my posts carefully. I never said that you couldn't talk about things that are relevant to Canadians. (I think you do a decent job of this on your blog by the way.) I said that none of the 10 or so members on that panel could speak 'first hand' about the Impact. Same goes for the Whitecaps. Given that they comprise a significant portion of 'Canadian soccer', a Butler as oppossed to a Molinaro would have been in order. Thats all. I think it makes for a much more balanced discussion.

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quote:Originally posted by Macksam

We're not like the US with our views on soccer. It's actually quite respected over here compared to down south.

I'm not sure what the "over here" is supposed to imply so maybe I should point out that I was watching Canadian pro soccer and CMNT games before some of the posters on this board had even started going to school. There has definitely been a major sea change in the way soccer is viewed in southern Ontario over the last 20 years but does that apply uniformly to all of Canada? I'm not convinced. I suspect the regional variation seen in the United States (e.g. Seattle vs. Columbus) also applies in a Canadian context once you move beyond the three main media markets. Even in southern Ontario there are marked differences culturally between rural areas and the larger cities.

Beyond that with only three automatic qualifying berths up for grabs and Mexico and the United States highly likely to take two of them qualification is always going to be very challenging given the fact that Costa Rica, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, Jamaica and T&T are all credible contenders for the third berth as well and there are other countries like Haiti, Cuba and Panama that are no pushovers in qualifier games. Making the hex should be the primary goal at this stage given the seeding will probably result in another challenging third round group.

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