elvis Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Thought this might be of interest... http://communities.canada.com/ottawacitizen/blogs/bulldog/archive/2009/12/01/neil-malhotra-wants-to-put-pro-soccer-in-ottawa-stadium.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Just from reading this article and doing no other research other than what I've read from the article (therefore this opinion is 100% valid and unquestionable), I don't like the sound of this one bit. We all know how brutal the Gold Cup matches looked in that one baseball stadium this summer, and Kansas City really need to get the hell out of their current baseball stadium situation as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 ^^It is a nice stadium though and considering the alternative seems to be an unbuilt football stadium that will be too large it might be the best option of the two. Not sure how the stadium will look as a soccer stadium but if they can make it a soccer specific stadium maybe they can renovate it to fit the pitch better. Baseball is pretty much dead in Ottawa so I can't see anyone wanting to bring in a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottawanewsoccerfan Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Ottawa is still appealing for indy baseball.With the rapidz they did very good for a indy team attednance wise.Now baseball alone there are 2 groups wanting to rent the stadium it seem soccer is the long shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 The PR Islanders play out of a modified baseball stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Tuscan Kansas City really need to get the hell out of their current baseball stadium situation as well. Interestingly, KC's pitch was voted the best in the US by some soccer association (it may have actually been the MLSPU). Freddie Ljungberg mentioned the KC pitch as the best in MLS in his ESPN column. It's obviously not an optimal solution, especially given that they are sharing it with a Double A baseball team, but at least the owners/facility are making do with what they have. It's far better than Arrowhead Stadium, and they will actually be building their new SSS across the parking lot from their current temp. home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Are we talking about the pitch or the stadium? Can have a brilliant pitch (playing surface) in a crummy stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Richard Are we talking about the pitch or the stadium? Can have a brilliant pitch (playing surface) in a crummy stadium. That's why I said I was talking about the pitch. It was just an aside to the topic at hand. Portland and Puerto Rico both play in baseball stadiums, and they both make do. With no other tenant to deal with, and Ottawa soccer team could make themselves a decent little home in that stadium with a few modifications. It's not an SSS, but neither is the Landsdowne plan, and the latter would almost assuredly have permanent CFL lines making a mockery of the playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Rochester got bigger crowds and were more successful when sharing a baseball stadium than they are now with their own SSS. A relatively central location with good transport links is maybe the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Rudi That's why I said I was talking about the pitch. It was just an aside to the topic at hand. Portland and Puerto Rico both play in baseball stadiums, and they both make do. With no other tenant to deal with, and Ottawa soccer team could make themselves a decent little home in that stadium with a few modifications. It's not an SSS, but neither is the Landsdowne plan, and the latter would almost assuredly have permanent CFL lines making a mockery of the playing field. And will also likely be artificial pitch whereas the baseball stadium has natural grass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAS Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 There have been a few threads here about the suitability of the Ottawa stadium, and it always comes down to field length. I think you can fit a field in there, and with that, this becomes an excellent stadium for NASL. The facilities are very good (indoor concourse, pub, ect) and it is in a good size market with good transit options. As I had pointed out in a previous thread about this, Saputo stadium is a 13K stadium built in 2007/8 for $15M, while this stadium is 10.3K and built in 1993 for $17M. It is a more solid, permanent (concrete!) structure and higher quality. Although 10.3K is sufficient, if this stadium became a proper SSS, then with the field running along what is now the third base line, you could put a stand in right/centre field to enclose the field on three sides. You might get as much as 16K here and good atmosphere. The trick though is keeping baseball out and making this soccer only. Given all the Bullsh*t that TFC has to put up with right now concerning the Argos, I wouldn't sign a lease with the city for this stadium. That leaves you vulnerable to political whims and future lobbying from baseball interests. Before taking the plunge and investing in a team I would outright buy the stadium and all rights from the city (with preapproval to make all necessary upgrades and convert into an SSS) so that I would have total control. I know that sounds expensive, but it might be necessary. Look at TFC and BMO Field right now. Between stadium construction ($18M+), the new grass field (and Lamport upgrades/bubble + rec field = $5.5-6M) and the proposed North end stand ($2M), MLSE will have spent ~$26M on a stadium that it doesn't own, can never buy, and whose new grass surface it might not be able to protect from the Argos. Frank Clair stadium's current condition shows how Ottawa's city-managed stadiums are treated. If someone with money wanted a great NASL-level soccer team, then buying Ottawa's baseball stadium, converting it into an SSS, and selling the naming rights to cover some of the construction costs would be a great idea. With ownership, you don't pay rent and you get all the money from advertising and concessions. For NASL, this would be a huge advantage. This would be a much better option than Lansdowne for any soccer team below MLS level. To built something like this now would probably be $20-25M. Given that this stadium is now sixteen years old and an unused white elephant that is costing the city money, I think that a low-ball bid of $1M might just work. The "economic spinoffs" of a new team for the city would be a compelling argument, and if the unused 80K Pontiac Silverdome can sell for $583K, then $1M for a small abandoned ballpark should be enough. Spend a few million more to refurbish and covert the place (and then sell the naming rights to get your costs back) and you are good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Converting a baseball stadium: it can be done and it can work, in spite of the oddity of main stands over a corner of the pitch. This is Hospitalet, outside Barcelona, originally built for the Olympics and now home to Centre d'Esports L'Hospitalet, capacity around 6500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Great photo. Thanks Jeffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by KAS There have been a few threads here about the suitability of the Ottawa stadium, and it always comes down to field length. I think you can fit a field in there, and with that, this becomes an excellent stadium for NASL. The facilities are very good (indoor concourse, pub, ect) and it is in a good size market with good transit options. As I had pointed out in a previous thread about this, Saputo stadium is a 13K stadium built in 2007/8 for $15M, while this stadium is 10.3K and built in 1993 for $17M. It is a more solid, permanent (concrete!) structure and higher quality. Although 10.3K is sufficient, if this stadium became a proper SSS, then with the field running along what is now the third base line, you could put a stand in right/centre field to enclose the field on three sides. You might get as much as 16K here and good atmosphere. The trick though is keeping baseball out and making this soccer only. Given all the Bullsh*t that TFC has to put up with right now concerning the Argos, I wouldn't sign a lease with the city for this stadium. That leaves you vulnerable to political whims and future lobbying from baseball interests. Before taking the plunge and investing in a team I would outright buy the stadium and all rights from the city (with preapproval to make all necessary upgrades and convert into an SSS) so that I would have total control. I know that sounds expensive, but it might be necessary. Look at TFC and BMO Field right now. Between stadium construction ($18M+), the new grass field (and Lamport upgrades/bubble + rec field = $5.5-6M) and the proposed North end stand ($2M), MLSE will have spent ~$26M on a stadium that it doesn't own, can never buy, and whose new grass surface it might not be able to protect from the Argos. Frank Clair stadium's current condition shows how Ottawa's city-managed stadiums are treated. If someone with money wanted a great NASL-level soccer team, then buying Ottawa's baseball stadium, converting it into an SSS, and selling the naming rights to cover some of the construction costs would be a great idea. With ownership, you don't pay rent and you get all the money from advertising and concessions. For NASL, this would be a huge advantage. This would be a much better option than Lansdowne for any soccer team below MLS level. To built something like this now would probably be $20-25M. Given that this stadium is now sixteen years old and an unused white elephant that is costing the city money, I think that a low-ball bid of $1M might just work. The "economic spinoffs" of a new team for the city would be a compelling argument, and if the unused 80K Pontiac Silverdome can sell for $583K, then $1M for a small abandoned ballpark should be enough. Spend a few million more to refurbish and covert the place (and then sell the naming rights to get your costs back) and you are good to go. The economics for the Lynx Stadium being coverted to SSS are very very low, the conversion issue is not great, and I am sure some of the city council is begining to think going soccer in the stadium is better then another failed baseball franchise. I can see it up to 20k in the future, the nice part is you can do the added stands modularly, Eest end stand for supporter group first, then a North stand, and finally the South stand extension. So you start at ten k, add the East End stand roughly 100 seats X 20 rows,for 2000 the North Side could go 150 X 30 for 4500 and then the South side finished, my numbers might be off by a factor but its certainly do-able. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S. Converting a baseball stadium: it can be done and it can work, in spite of the oddity of main stands over a corner of the pitch. This is Hospitalet, outside Barcelona, originally built for the Olympics and now home to Centre d'Esports L'Hospitalet, capacity around 6500. Where is that in relation to the city centre Jeffrey? I ask because I saw something similar (about a 20 walk up into the hills from the Paral•lel metro if I recall) to that when I was in Barcelona last June, but they were actually hitting baseballs when I was there. Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Of the three groups trying to bring soccer to Ottawa, this Malhotra character is on the top of my wish list by default. I don't believe the Hunt group really cares about soccer and I don't think the people of Ottawa will come out in numbers to watch soccer in an oversized football stadium with field markings. I doubt the city of Ottawa will help Melnyk build his stadium once they approve the Lansdowne project. Yes, there are questions about Malhotra including the depth of his pockets and his lack of experience in running a pro sports franchise, however I think he is our best hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy Where is that in relation to the city centre Jeffrey? I ask because I saw something similar (about a 20 walk up into the hills from the Paral•lel metro if I recall) to that when I was in Barcelona last June, but they were actually hitting baseballs when I was there. Just curious. Hospitalet is the big suburb on the airport side of the city. If you came into BCN by the Gran Via you almost drove past this stadium. They are at the top of their 4th tier division, one star player is Toni Velamazan who used to play for Barcelona. The baseball stadium you saw on the mountain was the Pérez de Rozas, also built for the Olympics and kept up, and where one of the first rounds of the baseball world cup was held a few months ago, in early September. Smaller capacity, maybe just 1500. In Barcelona city the only baseball park of any quality, where the FC Barcelona baseball section plays, senior and youth teams. Happens to be right beside the Palau Sant Jordi, where I spent 7 hours on Friday watching Davis Cup, spectacular experience with a superb Nadal and an epic comeback from Ferrer, I lucked into tix and it was great. BTW, if you walked up from metro Paral.lel you walked past my building. Next time drop in, I don't bite, and am especially nice to cross dressers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottawanewsoccerfan Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Masster I think the hunt group does care about soccer how much time will tell.As for the malhotra group i am not sure if i would say he is the best hope as there are concerns such as how much money if any would be required by the city to refurb the stadiume etc.Our best hope would be for the group to team up with the butler group and offer to buy the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettinhalifax Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 The ex-baseball stadium in Hospitalet is different than the stadium in Ottawa. The Hospitalet stadium was constructed with the 1B and 3B stand at a 90 degree angle. This configuration is unusual in a baseball stadium and leads me to think that they built it with an eye to conversion to soccer. The Ottawa stadium was built with the 1B and 3B stands at less than a 90 degree angle, making any conversion less than ideal. The existing stands can be be parallel to either the touch line or the goal line, but not both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeffery S. Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 quote:Originally posted by brettinhalifax The ex-baseball stadium in Hospitalet is different than the stadium in Ottawa. The Hospitalet stadium was constructed with the 1B and 3B stand at a 90 degree angle. This configuration is unusual in a baseball stadium and leads me to think that they built it with an eye to conversion to soccer. The Ottawa stadium was built with the 1B and 3B stands at less than a 90 degree angle, making any conversion less than ideal. The existing stands can be be parallel to either the touch line or the goal line, but not both. It is possible you are right about the conversion Brett, just as they were pretty sure they were going to keep the other baseball park intact. I find your comment about the angle of the stands odd though, I would think even if you were not dealing with a 90 degree angle they would be set back enough to allow for a pitch to be fit into the angle, and the rest of the stands appropriately adjusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettinhalifax Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 I think you can fit a pitch in pretty much any baseball stadium. IMO it would probably work a lot better for the spectators if the stands are at 90 degrees. A picture says a thousand words... On the left is the stadium in Hospitalet, on the right is a mock-up of a soccer pitch in the Ottawa stadium that was on the 24th minute blog. There is an awful lot of "foul territory" in the Ottawa mock-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 It must be reasonable to expect they could put seating along the one side opposite the baseball stands just to fill it in a little more (if capacity warrants it). Hehe I suppose from a competitive point of view one less baseball stadium in this country is never a bad thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Whoever did that mockup has never seen the property and has an odd grasp of field dimensions. The property has a significant natural slope to the 3rd base line grassy knoll (where food was served and people picnic'd for ball games) and the field chosen is arcane and almost square. Look at the distance from the edge of the 18yd box to the touchline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Why can't they just turn the place into a proper little footy stadium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 I would think that you could remove some of the seats so the field would fit with the stands better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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