Martyr Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 It would make more sense for the Argos to ground share with the Ti-cats at Ivor Wynne until they can sort out their own mess in Toronto. [:0] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Harold Ballard actually threatened to carry out the reverse of that scenario with the Ti-cats at one point. All a bluff to gain leverage in negotiations with the City of Hamilton over the use of Ivor Wynne, which hopefully is what is going on with the Argos right now where the Rogers Centre is concerned. The problem is that the Rogers Centre owners would still have the Blue Jays and don't need the Argos anything like as badly as Ivor Wynne needed the Ti-cats and are not answerable to the electorate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard Harold Ballard actually threatened to carry out the reverse of that scenario with the Ti-cats at one point. All a bluff to gain leverage in negotiations with the City of Hamilton over the use of Ivor Wynne, which hopefully is what is going on with the Argos right now where the Rogers Centre is concerned. The problem is that the Rogers Centre owners would still have the Blue Jays and don't need the Argos anything like as badly as Ivor Wynne needed the Ti-cats and are not answerable to the electorate. Ballard went as far as to purchase the concession rights at Varsity Stadium in order to show he was serious. Ya, it was bluff but at least he put up some money to back up the bluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 There's a rumour that as part of the Pan Am 2015 games, the Ticats and the Argos (with new ownership being the current BC Lions owner) being involved and building a new 25-30,000 seat stadium in Burlington/Oakville where both teams would play. This is probably a long shot. I didn't believe they were serious about BMO, but it probably makes sense for the Argos. It comes down to how many tickets are they really selling currently. The official number I believe is 27,000 or something like that. But how many are actually sold and at what price? There's enough demand to sell out BMO. They would have the money upfront each year so they could better plan, and they would save on front office and marketing expenses. At BMO, they would get the money from private boxes and concessions on game day, where I don't think they get any of that from Rogers. So that should cover the expenses at BMO and leave them a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Well seeing what VPjr wrote, the nightmare might be just beginning. Does anyone on here have any connections with the CFL to see what their thoughts are on the proposed move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstackho Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 quote:Originally posted by dbailey62 I still find it difficult to believe that the CFL would bend its rules in such a major way but obviously we cannot take anything for granted. Lest we forget when Baltimore won the Grey Cup! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Canadian_and_American_football quote: During the CFL's failed expansion to American cities, Canadian football was either played on converted baseball grounds, or in some cases, on a field designed for American football (for instance, the Memphis Mad Dogs and the Birmingham Barracudas of the CFL, playing in the Liberty Bowl and at Legion Field, respectively, played the Canadian game on American fields because of the inability of the stadiums to adapt to the larger field). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronto Ruffrider Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 quote:Originally posted by sstackho Lest we forget when Baltimore won the Grey Cup! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Canadian_and_American_football Do you have the dimensions of Legion Field as that stadium was used for CFL football? I have a decent image of how the Liberty Bowl was used for CFL games. The Liberty Bowl featured a 110-yard field (CFL regulation), with end zones that were 7-9 yards deep. I don't see how the Argos can even match those dimensions at BMO Field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuirtonPark Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 There's a piece in today's (Wednesday) National Post that quotes Argo co-owners Cynamon and Sokolowsky as being "thrilled at the chance to bolster Toronto's sporting environment" by donating $5M for a new sports complex at Bathurst & Sheppard. The facility apparently will include a gymnasium, indoor and outdoor pools, a track and fitness centre. So if this happens, they have some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loud Mouth Soup Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 The American CFL fields were, for the most part, CFL dimensions. There was the odd exception or minor adjustment if traditional CFL dimensions could not work in a stadium. I think it was Birmingham that had 15 or 17 yard end zones. I recall the far corners were actually angles, not 90 degree corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup The American CFL fields were, for the most part, CFL dimensions. There was the odd exception or minor adjustment if traditional CFL dimensions could not work in a stadium. I think it was Birmingham that had 15 or 17 yard end zones. I recall the far corners were actually angles, not 90 degree corners. Memphis was the big anomoly. The endzones were seven yards deep at the corner and nine in the centre. I recall this being discussed at the time. Many felt that this was ridiculous and that they should have gone with a one hundred yard field and added five yards to each end zone. It would have made for better football most certainly. No other US team had an endzone of less than 15 yards. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis_Mad_Dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Mike Hogan, Argos play-by-play guy on the Fan590, fielded a call on his show from an Argo fan asking about a move to BMO. Hogan's response was that it was a non-starter for 3 reasons: 1. Field is too small and Argos ownership does not have the money for the necessary expansion. 2. Argos average 26,000, why would they move to a smaller facility? 3. Argo fans are spoiled in a dome. Would they show up on a rainy October night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 They average 26,000....but if they are selling out BMO they'd drum up interest-by-demand.....anyway, let's be clear, I don't want them in BMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 quote:Originally posted by bettermirror anyway, let's be clear, I want them in BMO! OMG bettermirror why?!?! Just ribbin' ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Ivan Mike Hogan, Argos play-by-play guy on the Fan590, fielded a call on his show from an Argo fan asking about a move to BMO. Hogan's response was that it was a non-starter for 3 reasons: 1. Field is too small and Argos ownership does not have the money for the necessary expansion. 2. Argos average 26,000, why would they move to a smaller facility? 3. Argo fans are spoiled in a dome. Would they show up on a rainy October night? Thank goodness for clear thinking. It's like Hogie has been lurking here! That said, regarding ... 1. I fear the the league might just give them the ok to play on a US length field. It would be ridiculous but the possibility concerns me. 2. 26k? That's an announced 26k with an untold number of freebee tickets distributed. If they eliminated those, would 22k honest to goodness paying customers be their goal and if achieved, would gate receipts actually go up??? 3. No doubt about it and it's something I've said all along. Argos fans have become comfortable and soft. It's not like the old days at the Ex when the fans didn't care about the weather. Times have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 ^Just as a side note. I'm pretty sure the owners of the other clubs will have a thing or two to say about how they feel about the Argos playing on a goofy field "just because". If there was no where else to play for whatever reasons I'm sure they'd collectively feel a bit more generous but to voluntarily move to a structure which will afford the Argos an unfair on-field advantage? Lets just say if I was in the Bombers offices there would be a brief and I'm sure loud 'phone call to the league offices about the whole scheme. Adjust the field to meet spec or stay at Roger's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 the argo's will not be moving to bmo imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Cheeta ^Just as a side note. I'm pretty sure the owners of the other clubs will have a thing or two to say about how they feel about the Argos playing on a goofy field "just because". If there was no where else to play for whatever reasons I'm sure they'd collectively feel a bit more generous but to voluntarily move to a structure which will afford the Argos an unfair on-field advantage? Lets just say if I was in the Bombers offices there would be a brief and I'm sure loud 'phone call to the league offices about the whole scheme. Adjust the field to meet spec or stay at Roger's. I hear you but if it is a kiss of death to go back to the dome (depending on what Rogers new terms might be), would the other owners look at the situation and say "is it better they die or that they play on an odd field". While I believe the CFL can survive without a Toronto club, it could be a precarious existence so how the owners would vote is anybody's guess. BTW Cheetah, with all the financial problems of the Asper's and the black hole formerly none as Canwest Global, is the family still committed to put funds into a new Winnipeg football facility? cheers db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Absolutely. Canwest's collapse is a real kick in the gut for Clan Asper but make no mistake, they made major money on that dept driven expansion over the years and no creditor will ever touch that horde. You can take that to the bank (or not as the case may be). Would they love to still be milking the Canwest cow? Yeah, but unfortunately Bessie died. Everything is stalled a bit because with things being what they are a commercial retail development which was meant to subsidize the CFL operation is looking a dodgy investment right now. No commercial development, no stadium. Least not without additional public funding and there is zero chance of addition public funding from the city or province. Still looks likely but "the crash" has put the schedule off a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Cheeta Absolutely. Canwest's collapse is a real kick in the gut for Clan Asper but make no mistake, they made major money on that dept driven expansion over the years and no creditor will ever touch that horde. You can take that to the bank (or not as the case may be). Would they love to still be milking the Canwest cow? Yeah, but unfortunately Bessie died. Everything is stalled a bit because with things being what they are a commercial retail development which was meant to subsidize the CFL operation is looking a dodgy investment right now. No commercial development, no stadium. Least not without additional public funding and there is zero chance of addition public funding from the city or province. Still looks likely but "the crash" has put the schedule off a bit. So things still look promising. Good I guess (though I shudder to think of how many people lost fortunes because of the Aspers). Who else uses the current Canadinns Stadium? Certainly, revenue from the stadium itself isn't enough to really make it a going concern is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Looks like the danger of a stadium-hijack has passed:- http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/football/argos-unlikely-to-play-at-bmo-field/article1401891/ It is highly unlikely likely the Toronto Argonauts will be playing home games next season at BMO Field, the 20,000-seat home of Major League Soccer's Toronto FC. CFL sources say the idea of a potential Argos move to BMO Field was discussed during last week's management council meetings in Las Vegas, where team presidents and GM's met to go over league business. While no formal vote was taken, sources say there was a $B!H(Bstrong consensus$B!I(B around the table not to allow the Argos to play their games at a facility where CFL field dimensions would have to be altered... David Naylor was the Globe and Mail journalist who originally broke the story of a possible move a few weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 ...and a massive sigh of relief comes out of ML$E's TFC office. Not to mention all of us I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 quote:Originally posted by dbailey62 So things still look promising. Good I guess (though I shudder to think of how many people lost fortunes because of the Aspers). Who else uses the current Canadinns Stadium? Certainly, revenue from the stadium itself isn't enough to really make it a going concern is it? (Sorry for the late reply. Been out mostly the last few days). Nobody who pays for the privilege. Get the odd concert, or motorcross/tractor pull event. So no, the venue isn't a going concern at all. The club has a retail store, their offices and a fairly successful banquet hall on the site. All exempt from civic taxes (part of a deal with the club) so all told there are advantages in the current location. But the land the facilities sit on, retail gold mine. David Asper had planned to take advantage of the location to build a high end shopping centre there. The last few years the local hospitality industry re-discovered the fact that Winnipeg being "an island" has some advantages and that's servicing the couple of millions of people who are closer to Winnipeg than say Calgary/Edmonton or Minneapolis. Attracting the shopping/tourist weekenders and overnighters with of course, money to spend being the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/cfl/argos/article/739356--cfl-report-says-bmo-field-not-suitable-home-for-argos Can't say I'm surprised....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Great news about the CFL turning down the Argos. Take that, Cynamon and Sokolowski! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/cfl/argos/article/739356--cfl-report-says-bmo-field-not-suitable-home-for-argos Can't say I'm surprised....... "In addition, the report says that BMO dressing rooms designed for relatively small soccer teams are totally inadequate for football teams that carry 42 players plus coaches." Totally forgot about that, but yeah, there's no way you're going to fit 42+ large (some upwards of 300lbs.) men in a dressing room designed for roughly 30 normal (under 200lbs.) sized men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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