powerof11 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 The case is made: http://www.rednationonline.ca/A_Bold_Prediction_nov_24_09_column.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Great. Another 2 years of missed sitters from the 80 minute man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Well, at least Barrett has a good work ethic. Better than I can say for some others who (a) make more money, and, ( do nothing with the talent they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouversoccerman Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Could protecting Barrett be a <s>Master </s>Stroke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Ivan Well, at least Barrett has a good work ethic. Better than I can say for some others who (a) make more money, and, ( do nothing with the talent they have. That’s typical Toronto Sports fan stuff though. Praise the guy who puts in some kind of sloppy effort with a brutal deficiency of skills, while the guy who quietly does his job properly gets no credit. You need role players on your team for sure, but I don’t think they should come in the Chad Barrett variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 quote:Originally posted by ag futbol That’s typical Toronto Sports fan stuff though. Praise the guy who puts in some kind of sloppy effort with a brutal deficiency of skills, while the guy who quietly does his job properly gets no credit. You need role players on your team for sure, but I don’t think they should come in the Chad Barrett variety. And yours is the typical anti-Toronto response. Everyone has their own opinion and I would much rather see a guy out there busting his butt rather than someone go through the motions - or quietly doing his job a la Vitti - as you call it. Is that why TFC had so many no-shows on the road because all of their players were out there quietly doing their jobs while they were getting killed 4-0 every time out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Is someone really saying Vitti was quietly doing his job??? If his job was dribbling to nowhere, stopping TFC progression on the counter with needless dribbles, passing to the opponent, I guess he was.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Ivan And yours is the typical anti-Toronto response. Everyone has their own opinion and I would much rather see a guy out there busting his butt rather than someone go through the motions - or quietly doing his job a la Vitti - as you call it. Work rate is great but if all that work = no results, then what good is it. Soccer players are judged by results. I want guys who deliver the goods, not the guys who look like the ought to be delivering the goods. Barrett should be a better performer, but he's not. His technique is mediocre and he seems to have some sort of mental block to boot. i would have let him go in the expansion draft and let him be someone else's reclamation project. You can pick up players like him for far less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 ^ Again, what results exactly did a player like Vitti produce? I know ag futbol did not specifically mention Vitti, and I am not the biggest Chad Barrett fan either (I would have much preferred seeing Gala get more of a shot), but for me a player like Barrett is better than a player like Vitti. By the way, Barrett did score about 5 goals (league & VC) in what was considered a disaster of a year for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 ^ You don't see me promoting Vitti either, do you? I will admit that I prefer Vitti's skill set over Barrett's because I don't overvalue hustle and maybe I overvalue ball skills and dribbling. However, I think the correct answer is to let both guys go (although I'd be more inclined to protect Vitti over Barrett if they both made the same money) because Vitti is the type of player who can give you more if you surround him with players who he can play with. Barrett's problems have nothing to do with system....they have everything to do with not being able to execute when opportunity is served up to him on a platter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Ivan By the way, Barrett did score about 5 goals (league & VC) in what was considered a disaster of a year for him. Seven, to be exact. Tied for second on the team with Guevara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr However, I think the correct answer is to let both guys go I cannot disagree with that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Ivan And yours is the typical anti-Toronto response. Everyone has their own opinion and I would much rather see a guy out there busting his butt rather than someone go through the motions - or quietly doing his job a la Vitti - as you call it. Is that why TFC had so many no-shows on the road because all of their players were out there quietly doing their jobs while they were getting killed 4-0 every time out? I live about three blocks from union station and went to over half the TFC games this year, k thanks. And quietly do your job ... doesn't mean doing a terrible one like Vitti .. Example: The number of brownie points someone like Marvell Wynn deserves for tracking back for his own positional ineptitude is zero. Yet that earns consistent praise from some people … while somebody like Hainault or Kevin Alston on New England quietly does a better job without having to “hustle” all over the field. Similarly, why do we bust balls to give props to Barrett for working hard when as Vpjr said the end result of his efforts are futile? It’s plainly obvious he’s a slightly above average athlete with very limited technical ability and little mental composure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Well, Barrett efforts gives him what 7 goals and 5 assists (including VC) for the year (32 games?). That's 1 points every 3 games, I'm not sure how this is disastrous. Sure he should've done better and scored more but I'm not sure you can find a guy getting that many opportunities that easily. Vitti and Gerba average 1 points every 10 games or something like that. I think it's fair to say you are better protecting Barrett in this case. One thing is missing with Barrett, a better scoring record. IMO he is worth keeping with the club because like someone said the system isn't the problem. Of the 3 offensive players that could've been left unprotected (Vitti, Gerba and Barrett) Chad is probably the one working best in TFC system, so he's worth protecting ahead of the other 2. Chad playing style is fine for TFC, he just needs to improve his finishing. As for Gala being left unprotected, I doubt he'll be picked up. A logic move to leave him there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr However, I think the correct answer is to let both guys go Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 ...think the key word that was missing here where Barrett is concerned is eventually. There is a limit to the number of quality signings that can be made in an off season and he maybe still has some trade value given his contract might not look so out of whack if there is a significant increase in the salary cap due to the new CBA negotiations. Vitti is already out of contract in MLS terms and may not even be interested in returning so has probably effectively already been let go. Beyond that I think the key with Barrett is getting the ball under control to his right foot. That's when he tends to finish his chances. He may do a bit better playing under Preki in a more possession oriented team than he did under Carver and Cummins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I cant imagine the Union being interested in Barrett, you could have let him slide but then how many players did TFC need to protect in reality .. perhaps five, the rest are interchangeable and you have new coach who will be changing them up .. or at least that appears to be the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola Vitti and Gerba average 1 points every 10 games or something like that. I think it's fair to say you are better protecting Barrett in this case. Always approach MLS statistics with some caution though, they have a funny way of attributing and non-attributing assists in particular. IIRC Gerba had two assists that he wasn't credited for, one of which was out of pure error (the official scorer thought he was Marvel Wynne for some reason). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Against who were those 2 assists? I remember him being hit by a Barrett shot against New England only to see DeRo hitting a superb volley. I don't think that was worthy of an assist. Anyways, I doubt Ali will be picked up by Philly. If Philly takes one TFC player it will be Guevara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I know I'm always defending Barrett but what can I say? He's quick. He has great stamina. Going forward he sees the pitch and evolution of play well and has the knack for finding himself space. He had a crap year around goal, true. Man couldn't hit a barn door if it fell on him but lets face it, it can't stay that bad forever (JINX!) It's going to turn around. All that makes him an easier figure to blend into almost any system. Especially if you remove the primary responsibility of goal scoring from his shoulders. He'll still net you a few but he has the potential (just like every other player) to contribute goals to this team without actually being the one to put the ball in the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 The funny part i always find about people's expansion mock drafts (like the one Ives put up) is they always try and take the best 11 players available. To me, that seems to rarely be what plays out in practice. The smart teams have taken assets with a purpose in mind or just selected players that are low risk / high reward based on how much they get paid (and can be easily cut). I think most teams would rather test the transfer market than try to build their squad out of players teams don't value enough to protect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola Against who were those 2 assists? I can't honestly remember the opposition, as all the games glom into one for me over the passing of time. All I can tell you is that for the one where Ali was definitely robbed of an assist was that it was a play where he controlled the ball, shielded from the defender, turned to play a perfect pass to De Ro who crossed to Barrett who knocked it into the net. It was a road game, maybe against Chicago. But they gave the second assist to Marvell Wynne, who didn't even touch the ball on the play. I think the idiot official scorer must have mistaken the "10" for "16" or something. That's not to say I was disagreeing with your main point, just that I don't always trust MLS assist givers, and with good reason! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca I can't honestly remember the opposition, as all the games glom into one for me over the passing of time. All I can tell you is that for the one where Ali was definitely robbed of an assist was that it was a play where he controlled the ball, shielded from the defender, turned to play a perfect pass to De Ro who crossed to Barrett who knocked it into the net. It was a road game, maybe against Chicago. But they gave the second assist to Marvell Wynne, who didn't even touch the ball on the play. I think the idiot official scorer must have mistaken the "10" for "16" or something. That's not to say I was disagreeing with your main point, just that I don't always trust MLS assist givers, and with good reason! I remember that particular play and I thought Gerba did quite well on it. He actually got some separation from his marking CB before receiving the ball and then delivering the pass, but that didn't happen often enough during the rest of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 The fact that MLS statisticians tabulate 'second assists' makes my head hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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