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Looks like tickets will still be scarse


Free kick

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TFC is claiming a renewal of 96% of their season ticket. Thats consistent with (if not stronger) the reported renewal rate from the first two off season and quite surprising to me as I was expecting a drop off in year two or three after the novelity wears off and with the missed playoffs.

Now with waiting list of 16K or so, you have got to think that stadium expansion is just around the corner. I would be shocked by now if they haven't seriously consider stadium expansion given all that lost revenue potential

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It would be nice but I doubt it. They are creating demand and interest because tickets are hard to get. My guess is that BMO will be expanded something like 10% of the waitlist (1000-2000 seats). 2000 seats on $500 a year season tickets is an extra million dollars of revenue and still very high demand for tickets keeping prices high.

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After dropping a few millions to put grass into BMO I think the only expansion you'll see in 2010 will be with ticket prices. Maybe the next year there will be increased seating. Seems like there are always a few hoops to jump through when City Hall is involved.

Besides, things being what they are I'm not sure there would be quite the same renewal rate amongst the season ticket holders if BMO had sufficient seating capacity. Better to maintain the artificial shortage and keep the pressure on the current ticket holders to renew rather than expand and expose the product to the whims of the market-place.

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quote:Originally posted by finchster

It would be nice but I doubt it. They are creating demand and interest because tickets are hard to get. My guess is that BMO will be expanded something like 10% of the waitlist (1000-2000 seats). 2000 seats on $500 a year season tickets is an extra million dollars of revenue and still very high demand for tickets keeping prices high.

Yup. although the only quick fix that is possible is temporary stands of 500-1000 seats that were put up for the Real Madrid game. Those seats remained for the Puerto Rico game but were removed shortly thereafter. This is a mystery to me as to why they would have removed them. Perhaps the incremental revenues from teh beer garden are higher or perhaps the sponsor was unhappy over the reduced visbility. either way, there is no way that they are going to fetch 500$ from a seaon ticket holder for those seats.

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quote:Originally posted by Free kick

Yup. although the only quick fix that is possible is temporary stands of 500-1000 seats that were put up for the Real Madrid game. Those seats remained for the Puerto Rico game but were removed shortly thereafter. This is a mystery to me as to why they would have removed them. Perhaps the incremental revenues from teh beer garden are higher or perhaps the sponsor was unhappy over the reduced visbility. either way, there is no way that they are going to fetch 500$ from a seaon ticket holder for those seats.

According to their website the price for new season ticket holders in the North end is $399

http://web.mlsnet.com/t280/tickets/ssh/renewal/

I don't see there being much of a stretch to believe they can get $500 for those seats in a few years.

Its not like these are hard numbers just my hypothetical

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it's not like TFC season ticket holders are poor people struggling to make ends meet and having to choose between buying food and buying TFC seasons tickets.

they are dedicated, and they can afford it.

And it's not like TFC has gotten worse over the years (like San Jose)... TFC went from 25 to 35 to 39 points. Points growth has slowed down, but the team is better now than in 2007.

Why is it so surprising that renewal is 96%?

Toronto is a big city with a lot of relatively well off citizens who love coming out to the game every Saturday at a nice little stadium near the heart of the city to watch a team that has improved in points every year.

In this situation, what renewal rate did you expect? 90%? 50%? and explain why?

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  • 4 weeks later...
quote:Originally posted by Obinna

dissapointing. Wasn't there talk of expanding 8,000 a few months ago?

No. There might have been a bit of wishful thinking floating about but there was never any talk about 8000 seats being added for 2010. Paul Bierne had floated the possibility of a 1200 seat north stand being added for this year. That was over at RPB.

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why grow inventory by 8000 and essentially kill the ticket scarcity that TFC's front office loves to tout.

Adding 1200 or so seats will create a nice revenue bump for the club ($500K minimum just in ticket sales, not including at least another $250K annually in concession revenue, and that's just for TFC games).

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quote:Originally posted by VPjr

why grow inventory by 8000 and essentially kill the ticket scarcity that TFC's front office loves to tout.

Adding 1200 or so seats will create a nice revenue bump for the club ($500K minimum just in ticket sales, not including at least another $250K annually in concession revenue, and that's just for TFC games).

This seems about right, and if you go by the minimum numbers of $500,000 on tickets and $250,000 on concession this renovation will pay for itself in less than three years on just TFC games (I think it will pay for itself in about two when it is all said and done).

4-5 years from now MLSE will consider another expansion and will probably expand again another 10-20% of the wait list. The north end is empty they can expand easily and cheaply for a few years there before a major renovation.

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quote:Originally posted by dbailey62

No. There might have been a bit of wishful thinking floating about but there was never any talk about 8000 seats being added for 2010. Paul Bierne had floated the possibility of a 1200 seat north stand being added for this year. That was over at RPB.

I may be wrong on this but I believe that Anselmi may have hinted at those kind of numbers about a year ago in radio interview in the same discusion in regards to the aiting list for STH's. But you are right in that there was never a timetable mentioned. So I dont believe that the expansion of 6-8K is rooted in wishfull thinking and discussion forums speculation.

The thing is, you have to figure that an 8K expansion would be quite expensive and require some major kind of remake and facelift of the facility. 8K is an increase of 40%.

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quote:Originally posted by Free kick

I may be wrong on this but I believe that Anselmi may have hinted at those kind of numbers about a year ago in radio interview in the same discusion in regards to the aiting list for STH's. But you are right in that there was never a timetable mentioned. So I dont believe that the expansion of 6-8K is rooted in wishfull thinking and discussion forums speculation.

The thing is, you have to figure that an 8K expansion would be quite expensive and require some major kind of remake and facelift of the facility. 8K is an increase of 40%.

Yes but aren't we talking about 2010? I was. There was never any possibility of those types of numbers for 2010 so there isn't really any reason to be disappointed in this relatively small number of seats for next season. I'm actually a bit surprised they've gone ahead with this. Interestingly, the seats are to be located behind the Carlsburg Beer Garden so we can expect this new stand to look a little bit like the south stand in Columbus.

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quote:Originally posted by Free kick

I may be wrong on this but I believe that Anselmi may have hinted at those kind of numbers about a year ago in radio interview in the same discusion in regards to the aiting list for STH's. But you are right in that there was never a timetable mentioned. So I dont believe that the expansion of 6-8K is rooted in wishfull thinking and discussion forums speculation.

The thing is, you have to figure that an 8K expansion would be quite expensive and require some major kind of remake and facelift of the facility. 8K is an increase of 40%.

Yes but aren't we talking about 2010? I was. There was never any possibility of those types of numbers for 2010 so there isn't really any reason to be disappointed in this relatively small number of seats for next season. I'm actually a bit surprised they've gone ahead with this. Interestingly, the seats are to be located behind the Carlsburg Beer Garden so we can expect this new stand to look a little bit like the south stand in Columbus.

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