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Toronto FC and Cummins Part Ways


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Probably a positive that MLSE are ignoring the prevailing sentiment on the messageboards at this point. This time last season that may well be what led to keeping John Carver despite the fact he had shown all the signs of being several cards short of a full deck during the 2008 season long before going completely postal early on this past season. A large group of talented young players has now been assembled who will be a year older and more experienced next season and replacements have already been found for some of the key veterans from the expansion season like Sutton and Robinson who needed to be phased out. A few more experienced players know that they are next in line for that sort of treatment or are highly likely to be moved on if Mo stays because they have not done as well as they were expected to so it comes as no surprise to me that the TFC dressing room is not full of happy campers at the moment with wonderful things to say about the guy who could soon axe them. Nothing unusual in that. If Mo can get a good coach in there is no need for a drastic overhaul at this point because most of the pieces are in place for a playoff level team next season. The ideal window of opportunity for a drastic revamp was actually late in the 2008 season when the vast amount of allocation money and first round draft picks were still in place. If Mo can't come up with a good coach and the key stumbling block proves to be that nobody suitable wants to work with him then that is the point when he will have to go as well.

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quote:Garcia was a guy that I recall being ripped apart by some of those same Houston players that Cummins mentions, so perhaps we should have seen this coming.

Could be something to that but I think the prime "bad apple" suspects are the players who Cummins consistently wasn't giving as much playing time to as might have been expected. That wasn't Garcia until the very tail end of the season. Ali Gerba and to a lesser extent Pablo Vitti would be my suggestions.

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quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

Could be something to that but I think the prime "bad apple" suspects are the players who Cummins consistently wasn't giving as much playing time to as might have been expected. That wasn't Garcia until the very tail end of the season.

Well keep in mind that Cummins had little option to play Garcia once Velez was gone and with Serioux suspended and/or injured for a while prior to Garcia's benching, so we might have seen a benching earlier than that. With more than one source pin-pointing Garcia as the only name so far (at least that I've seen) I suspect he must be one of them, if not the only one.

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Vitti doesn't speak English so how plausible is it that he would be a disruptive influence. I don't think it was just Garcia either. Didn't play that much, might be a bad egg but it's not as if he was playing 90 minutes day in day out. I would look at some other Yanks: Barret and Wynne.

After further reflection, I'm going with Barrett. And the conflict between Cummins and MJ would be MJ forcing Cummins to play that "A number one" striker week after week after week.

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quote:Originally posted by tovan

Holger Osieck?

He doesn't take sh*t from players so you know he'd run a tight ship, he's got plenty of experience with CONCACAF b.s.,and I'm sure he knows a thing or two about putting a game plan together.

Whether he's willing to jump into the gong show that is TFC/MLS is another story.

Holger has coached club soccer, if my memory is correct, in Japan, Turkey and at Bochum in Germany. If I recall, his achievements at the club level are somewhat less than stellar and drew poor reviews.

On the other hand, for Canada, he was the right man at the right time. But his departure shows that that he has shelf life of only so long. And when you consider that with the MNT he is only around the player for something like 10 days a year on average, you have got to be concerned about putting him in a situation in a league with a 30 game schedule. How long will it take for the players to tune him out.

Still, its worth listing up his credentials in terms of plusses and minuses:

Positives:

- Has coached club and international soccer abroad and away from his home land and continent. Unlike, say, Ruud Gullit.

- His experience in Japan would likely prove and assets given the similarities of J-League and MLS in that both are relatively new leagues that are still unknown in the broader picture.

- Is a disciplinarian. A usefull attribute for TFC right now.

Negatives:

- He has never been a guy, judging from his callups to the NT, that has ever fully approeciated or demonstanted respect for domestic based players and domestic game in North America ( ie.: Canada and US). Holger Osieck, unlike his successors, only called up Euro based players.

- Several of the players he coached for canada are now on TFC. Stories at the time, suggest that the players had grown tired of his act.

- We have seen that he can have success with limited resources and talent by employing a disciplined style that emphasizes containment. But there are few talented players on TFC who like freedom to express themselves on the pitch. Cant see his style sitting well with them

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quote:Originally posted by Ed

Vitti doesn't speak English so how plausible is it that he would be a disruptive influence. I don't think it was just Garcia either. Didn't play that much, might be a bad egg but it's not as if he was playing 90 minutes day in day out. I would look at some other Yanks: Barret and Wynne.

After further reflection, I'm going with Barrett. And the conflict between Cummins and MJ would be MJ forcing Cummins to play that "A number one" striker week after week after week.

I dont think so. Barrett seem well liked by his team mates judging by their reaction when he scored. When he was subbed out, I never saw him sulk. He'd drive you nuts with his inability to finish and I do think that this is the main reason he should be shipped out. But at no time did you ever sence that his effort and commitment were lacking. Those are the kind of things that win the respect of teammates and coaches.

As far as Wynne, he missed quite a lot of games this year because of international callups. And strikes me as a personable chap who has been seen in the company of both the average fan and the most senior executives in the organization. Again, these are not attributes that you think of when looking for bad apples in the dressing room.

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quote:Originally posted by Free kick

As far as Wynne, he missed quite a lot of games this year because of international callups. And strikes me as a personable chap who has been seen in the company of both the average fan and the most senior executives in the organization. Again, these are not attributes that you think of when looking for bad apples in the dressing room.

Did I not read somewhere in the last week or so that Wynne was known for often complaining that he wants to play full back more rather than on the wing? I'll try to figure out where I read that.

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FK, I thought Barrett sulked EVERY time he was called off. Of course that would be the two or three games out of the 30 or so he played when he was not cramped up and forced off.

TFC's roster isn't that big. Who is left that hasn't been exonerated in other articles (e.g., can't use Brennan, Robinson, Serioux, Cronin, Guevara, DeRo, JdG).

So one of Vitti, Barrett, Wynne, Gerba, White, Garcia, Frei, Fellinga, Attakora.

OBW, Fellinga and the two Gambians didn't get enought p/t to qualify as a bad boy.

Frei and Attakora are too young to be a bad influence on anybody.

Gerba has the exact opposite demeanor of a bad boy.

Garcia, perhaps.

Who else is there?

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quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

Did I not read somewhere in the last week or so that Wynne was known for often complaining that he wants to play full back more rather than on the wing? I'll try to figure out where I read that.

Nobody likes a complainer, but that's just a case of Wynn saving a stupid manager from their own failings. Wynn doesn't have the toolbox to play on the wing in the midfield he's only good running into space which he gets by taking up the wingback role.

I agree with Ed, Barrett could easily be a prime target.

Others that come to mind:

- Ali Gerba - not much there to say, but maybe he's not all there in training. Also ran through a ton of clubs which leave a bit of cloud over his character.

- Jim Brennan - reams out his teammates on the field all the time, but can't do the job himself.

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quote:Originally posted by ag futbol

- Jim Brennan - reams out his teammates on the field all the time, but can't do the job himself.

Well true, but then the same could be said of Robinson, who doesn't even have the captaincy as an excuse. But both aren't players that Cummins is at least talking about because he's specifically referred to them as role models for the younger players.

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quote:Originally posted by Free kick

I dont think so. Barrett seem well liked by his team mates judging by their reaction when he scored...

Barrett consistently got more playing time than a lot of people thought he deserved, which points to him being viewed positively by Chris Cummins. I strongly suspect that perception was part of what brought the Danny Dichio issue to a head.

On Vitti it really stood out for me when he scored his goals that he wasn't exactly mobbed by his teammates. Think only Chad Barrett celebrated with him.

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quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Well true, but then the same could be said of Robinson, who doesn't even have the captaincy as an excuse. But both aren't players that Cummins is at least talking about because he's specifically referred to them as role models for the younger players.

Robinson has the respect of his teammates. Dichio did too. They were the "real" captains.

Brennan....not so much. Not hated but by no means loved. The level of respect isn't as high as for the other two mentioned above.

call that speculation if you will but I'm pretty confident with that info.

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Without legit insider info. we're likely to never know who Cummins was refering to and i'm ok with that. The important thing is that Cummins passes that info. on to Mo and Mo does something about it so that the locker room chemistry is corrected for next season.

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quote:Originally posted by jpg75

Without legit insider info. we're likely to never know who Cummins was refering to and i'm ok with that. The important thing is that Cummins passes that info. on to Mo and Mo does something about it so that the locker room chemistry is corrected for next season.

but that might require Mo moving some of his favorites.

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