Women's soccer in Canada - dead?

[Vic]

Another couple of weeks without a single post to follow up the previous run. The only thing to crack the silence in the past month has been a school injury and a ranking release.

Do we have three national women's teams? Do we have interesting and relevant players and coaches? The last CSA update on any of the women's programs is a retirement in early August.

No events, no marketing.

Is the car in drive, neutral or reverse?

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Vic

Another couple of weeks without a single post to follow up the previous run. The only thing to crack the silence in the past month has been a school injury and a ranking release.

Do we have three national women's teams? Do we have interesting and relevant players and coaches? The last CSA update on any of the women's programs is a retirement in early August.

No events, no marketing.

Is the car in drive, neutral or reverse?

I have been wondering the same Vic. The CSA doesn't know much else. I asked them if Canada was invited to the 4 Nations in Mexico next month, but they knew nothing about it. There is also a big Bi-Centennial Cup to be played in Chile next year with top teams from around the world. All good opportunities to get some games with a small cost.

[Vic]

U.S. U-14 Girls National Team Training Camp

Carson, Calif.

Aug. 23-30

http://www.ussoccer.com/News/Coachesnet/2009/10/CoachesNet-Insider-U-14-GNT-Training-Journal-From-Carson.aspx

"36 players invited into camp. All players were born in 1995. The players were chosen from a pool of 101 that were invited into a U.S. Soccer-run U-14 ID Camp, held in Pomona, Calf., this past July."

Now there's a program in drive.

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by Vic

U.S. U-14 Girls National Team Training Camp

Carson, Calif.

Aug. 23-30

http://www.ussoccer.com/News/Coachesnet/2009/10/CoachesNet-Insider-U-14-GNT-Training-Journal-From-Carson.aspx

"36 players invited into camp. All players were born in 1995. The players were chosen from a pool of 101 that were invited into a U.S. Soccer-run U-14 ID Camp, held in Pomona, Calf., this past July."

Now there's a program in drive.

My question is what is the National coach doing ?

Seriously what does she do in this time period.. is she out scouting high school games or tournaments traveling to see US based college players.. what is she doing ?

I am amazed how we hire a coach and then dont manage them or ensure they are doing the steps to build a program we just let the CSA dump them in an office to languish.

[Martyr]

Somewhat an answer to your questions...

Morace, Neil to watch Jubilee Trophy final

http://www.canadasoccer.com/news/viewArtical.asp?Press_ID=3836

[methusela]

The CSA seems to be ignoring the Women's program and its players.

With the General Secretary away in Cairo helping out with soccer there, the lack of a program does not seem to be upsetting the CSA Board, or many soccer people except for a few of the Voyageurs.

Perhaps the players are complaining and girding for some action? If they don't look after themselves and their program, it appears no one else will.

[soccerhero]

The reality is we have become far to reliant on the NCAA to develop our players. Almost all of our top U20 players are competing down south and i would surmise the WNT coach is monitoring their progress. From reviewing the various collegiate websites it many of our Canadian players are making a significant impact on top US universities which is great to see.

On the home fornt.....By all accounts from the feedback i have received, the quality of play and talent level on display at the U18 club nationals this past weekend left much to be desired.

Unfortunately, keeping abreast of the progress of our players requires sleuth work and a lot of time on the internet .

[Vic]

100%. And yes there is nothing in Canada at any level to compare to NCAA D1. We may not have politically capitulated to the U.S. but in terms of stewarding the women's game the CSA did a long time ago. Not directly and willfully, just by default and inaction. Perhaps it is inevitable and/or a good thing, like great male soccer players going to Europe and great European hockey players coming to play here. Just sad that the only opportunities we can offer our really talented women and girls are plane tickets. And even sadder that the large pool below that which is the supporting ecosystem and where we develop our next rung on the ladder is and has fallen so far behind on a global standard, with no sign of hope.

[The Ref]

One problem I see with leaving the NCAA to develop our talent is that not all Division 1 colleges have top level technical direction or players for that matter. I would venture to say that the majority of D1 teams are way below the level of their better Colleges.

[terpfan68]

It's much cheaper sending carded athletes to US colleges as they receive no money from us while they are attending school. The only expense would be travel money when they are called up to perform for Canada. It's like getting your neighbours to raise your kids and you only have to see them on holidays.

[Richard]

^ So what do you suggest as an alternative to the university programs in the short to medium term?

[terpfan68]

The top carded players who still have university eligibility left are getting an education that costs (with living expenses) in the neighbourhood of US $20000 and up (soon to be Can $20000). If there are only 15 players at this level and we brought them back to Canada to attend Canadian Universities it would still cost $10000 each or a total of $150000 and that is assuming a student would rather play twelve games in Winnipeg, Regina, Halifax instead of 25 games in Florida or Southern California or even South Bend. And oh yeah, many of the Canadian coaches are part time and probably not as qualified as the top 25 Division 1 NCAA coaches who are making big bucks. (This is a supposition based on a sample of 1. Does anyone have data on the salaries of US and Canadian college coaches.) In a program that has to scrape to get buy as it is there is no way they could come up with the extra funding.

[VPjr]

it is my understanding that all WNT activities will recommence in the New Year.

My guess is that they blew their budget early.

There was supposed to be a U20 camp in late summer but that didn't happen, likely for budgetary reasons.

[Soccer9]

The U17 WNT camp is on for next week in Laval: 17-25 October

About 25 players invited.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

it is my understanding that all WNT activities will recommence in the New Year.

My guess is that they blew their budget early.

There was supposed to be a U20 camp in late summer but that didn't happen, likely for budgetary reasons.

Indeed an unfortunate situation for the players. What I am curious about is whether Morace and her staff continue to receive their salary for doing nothing. That in my view is blowing away budgets.

[terpfan68]

Imagine how much criticism the last coach (what was his name?) would have received if the exact same situation would have occurred under his reign.

[soccerhero]

quote:Originally posted by terpfan68

Imagine how much criticism the last coach (what was his name?) would have received if the exact same situation would have occurred under his reign.

We all know the answer to that.....

Unfortunately for the last minnion of a coach he had no track record in the eyes of many and the current one, for the time being at least, is being given the benefit of the doubt.

That may wear thin but only time will tell.

[fishman]

I can tell you what she was doing on one week ago on Friday, October 9.

She was - along with Andrea Neil and her translator (oops, CSA VP) Victor Montagliani - in Edmonton, accompanied by Ray Clark and some other CSA / ASA administrators and coaches. The Provincial Association hosted a wine and cheese reception for Morace. Nothing formal (trust me).

I was disappointed that the ASA sent out invitations to this event only three days before, although I concede I don't know if they were aware of her visit or itinerary well enough in advance. Surely she was there to watch some of the U18 Club Championships. With the lack of advance notice, there was probably less than 50 people in attendance.

Regardless, it consisted of an informal presentation from Morace whereby she took great lengths to distinguish her philosophy of coaching over that of the previous coach, Mr. Pellerud. She bemoaned the lack of agility, ball skill, creativity, anaerobic capacity and refinement of the typical Canadian player. She couldn't understand neither the rate of injury of our female athletes nor the lack of coaching education. She complained about the lack of playing opportunities for elite players, and especially for the WNT Program.

Morace alluded to the fact she came to Canada because of the number of players involved in soccer, and as such, the opportunity to identify and develop athletes. When asked about the NTC Program, she rolled her eyes, laughed nervously, and worked hard to not answer the question. That made a number of people in attendance look downwards as many of them are exactly the ones involved in the administration of the National Training Centres.

As with many of these presentations / Q & A sessions, there was a lot of talk and little substance. Coaches in positions like hers often talk about the type of players they want to see (she mentioned Messi, Ibrahimovic, etc.) and nothing on how to develop them.

Montagliani was challenged on the CSA's support of the NT Programs, and did a bit of a dance around how to better fund them. He threw some mud towards the "Eastern Provinces" (Ontario and Quebec) and how they won't support an increase in the CSA's portion of player registration. He commented on how corporate Canada is not providing the level of support needed; in fact, he stated that Hockey Canada would be in dire straits were it not for the World Junior Championship held here every second year - otherwise, they receive only $3M per year, far short of their operating needs.

Neil spoke briefly about her experience to date, and mentioned that the environment has been very different than that to which she has been accustomed. She said players were initially very hesitant, if not unnerved, but that over the course of some camps they have grown to enjoy the challenging atmosphere. She said Morace is very direct in her communication - she deals with the performance problems immediately, and doesn't mince words. And that has made for some tense moments.

Apparently, Morace and her staff took Neil and Montagliani to Coverciano, the FIGC's Technical Sector Headquarters. Neil has been accepted by the FIGC to study there, presumably to receive some level of UEFA certification.

Morace said she had hoped to see many NT games played in every part of the country, and with it, improved opportunities for coaching clinics, etc.. I hope that happens, because it is clear that she has strong opinions about what is wrong with our system - it would be good to hear from her how to fix them.

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by fishman

She complained about the lack of playing opportunities for elite players, and especially for the WNT Program.

That sounds like the typical cant from the CSA types, she is being sucked in, there are playing oppourtunitys but the National coach on the women's side has to find players who will take up those challenges, go to Europe, to Germany and catch on a team, or sign on now in Brasil for the women's Cup as the worlds number one player has.. Morace needs to start doing her job, and sorry six months in she does not need a translator, time to sink or swim at her pay scale.Players who are carded need to be full time soccer travellers gaining experience and maturity, she needs to help them.

quote:Coaches in positions like hers often talk about the type of players they want to see (she mentioned Messi, Ibrahimovic, etc.) and nothing on how to develop them.

Your right on the money, saying she wants players like X is lazy, instead she needs to describe the technical skill she wants and talk about spatial awareness she wants to see in players

quote:

Neil spoke briefly about her experience to date, and mentioned that the environment has been very different than that to which she has been accustomed. She said players were initially very hesitant, if not unnerved, but that over the course of some camps they have grown to enjoy the challenging atmosphere. She said Morace is very direct in her communication - she deals with the performance problems immediately, and doesn't mince words. And that has made for some tense moments.

Lets hope that as the posers on the WNT are caught out she drops them and brings in players with work ethic who want to win, not go along for the ride with the family compact

quote:

Apparently, Morace and her staff took Neil and Montagliani to Coverciano, the FIGC's Technical Sector Headquarters. Neil has been accepted by the FIGC to study there, presumably to receive some level of UEFA certification.

The CSA should be sending all its staff coaches out to get higher training and placing them where they need to show coaching skills and develop them week to week in competitive leagues

quote:Morace said she had hoped to see many NT games played in every part of the country, and with it, improved opportunities for coaching clinics, etc.. I hope that happens, because it is clear that she has strong opinions about what is wrong with our system - it would be good to hear from her how to fix them.

You dont need clinics to transfer your knowledge or clinics to change the thought processes you need to put pen to paper .. and publish a weekly blog on the net talking about different aspects of the game, push it out to all the coaches accross the country, the technologies are here use them.

[navycyr]

Thank you fishman for posting a summary of coach Morace presentation. It is very instructive for people like me who are not close to the CSA.

My comments will be on two excerpts of your summary which I consider related:

She bemoaned the lack of agility, ball skill, creativity, anaerobic capacity and refinement of the typical Canadian player. She couldn't understand neither the rate of injury of our female athletes nor the lack of coaching education.

When asked about the NTC Program, she rolled her eyes, laughed nervously, and worked hard to not answer the question.

I think the problem of canadian women's elite soccer is a philosophical one. Actually CSA prefer athletes with power, strength and aggresiveness to the detriment of those more techical, intelligent with the ball and faster (on run or execution). We send those athletes who already have a physical advantage to NTCs where the program is designed mostly (almost exclusively) on developping physical capabilities. I observed two results. First, girls attending NTC are more prone to injuries because of their aggressive physical play and because their bodies do not enjoy sufficient recovery periods being year round sollicited either by their original teams, provincial teams, national team and the NTC. Second, NTC according low priority to the technical and tactical part of the game, I have seen some players in the recent years developing better and faster than those at the NTC, even surpassing them. I can understand Morace not commenting on NTCs because whole program has to be reviewed starting from the criteria used to select players to the training of those attending. It was quite an embarrassing question for her to answer. At least, what she said or didn't say make me think she is on the good track and gives me hope for the future.

In regard to recruiting, I am amazed none of the girls of the team who defeated Ontario 8-0 in the U16 national finals in Winnipeg has been invited to the national U17 camp held in Laval this week (The only member invited only played the first game and a half of the competition and sat on the bench afterwards, being injured). I have coached youth baseball, basketball, hockey and soccer and I can tell you can't win a championship without having in your team some players belonging to a level above the one your team is in, and it is even more true if you win in such a decisive way. Or maybe I am wrong, and those girls were only "ordinary". Then the coach should be invited to join the national teams staff for achieving extraordinary results with ordinary players.

That national U16 final for those who have not attended was opposing an aggressive and physical Ontario team to a less physical more technical Quebec team with a beautiful passing game and tactical sense. Unfortunately for them, the qualities they demonstrated were obviously not being part of the criteria considered to be scouted. Let's hope coach Morace turns things around if we are to have more competitive canadian women international teams.

Quebec girls scouted as shown on Quebec Federation site

http://www.federation-soccer.qc.ca/fre/index.cfm:

Amanda Goulet Beauport Beauport

Sabrina Hemond Lac St-Louis Lakers Sherbrooke

Catherine McDuff-Viau Celtix-du Haut-Richelieu Sainte-Catherine

Jeannie Coia Lac St-Louis Lakers Laval

Kylie Davis Lac St-Louis Lakers ïle-Bizard

Caroline Beaulne Longueuil Longueuil

Sophie Therien Lac St-Louis Lakers Kirkland

Annie Renaud Boisbriand St-Eustache

quote:Originally posted by fishman

I can tell you what she was doing on one week ago on Friday, October 9.

She was - along with Andrea Neil and her translator (oops, CSA VP) Victor Montagliani - in Edmonton, accompanied by Ray Clark and some other CSA / ASA administrators and coaches. The Provincial Association hosted a wine and cheese reception for Morace. Nothing formal (trust me).

I was disappointed that the ASA sent out invitations to this event only three days before, although I concede I don't know if they were aware of her visit or itinerary well enough in advance. Surely she was there to watch some of the U18 Club Championships. With the lack of advance notice, there was probably less than 50 people in attendance.

Regardless, it consisted of an informal presentation from Morace whereby she took great lengths to distinguish her philosophy of coaching over that of the previous coach, Mr. Pellerud. She bemoaned the lack of agility, ball skill, creativity, anaerobic capacity and refinement of the typical Canadian player. She couldn't understand neither the rate of injury of our female athletes nor the lack of coaching education. She complained about the lack of playing opportunities for elite players, and especially for the WNT Program.

Morace alluded to the fact she came to Canada because of the number of players involved in soccer, and as such, the opportunity to identify and develop athletes. When asked about the NTC Program, she rolled her eyes, laughed nervously, and worked hard to not answer the question. That made a number of people in attendance look downwards as many of them are exactly the ones involved in the administration of the National Training Centres.

As with many of these presentations / Q & A sessions, there was a lot of talk and little substance. Coaches in positions like hers often talk about the type of players they want to see (she mentioned Messi, Ibrahimovic, etc.) and nothing on how to develop them.

Montagliani was challenged on the CSA's support of the NT Programs, and did a bit of a dance around how to better fund them. He threw some mud towards the "Eastern Provinces" (Ontario and Quebec) and how they won't support an increase in the CSA's portion of player registration. He commented on how corporate Canada is not providing the level of support needed; in fact, he stated that Hockey Canada would be in dire straits were it not for the World Junior Championship held here every second year - otherwise, they receive only $3M per year, far short of their operating needs.

Neil spoke briefly about her experience to date, and mentioned that the environment has been very different than that to which she has been accustomed. She said players were initially very hesitant, if not unnerved, but that over the course of some camps they have grown to enjoy the challenging atmosphere. She said Morace is very direct in her communication - she deals with the performance problems immediately, and doesn't mince words. And that has made for some tense moments.

Apparently, Morace and her staff took Neil and Montagliani to Coverciano, the FIGC's Technical Sector Headquarters. Neil has been accepted by the FIGC to study there, presumably to receive some level of UEFA certification.

Morace said she had hoped to see many NT games played in every part of the country, and with it, improved opportunities for coaching clinics, etc.. I hope that happens, because it is clear that she has strong opinions about what is wrong with our system - it would be good to hear from her how to fix them.

[Vic]

Quick thoughts:

1. Quebec IS well-represented on that roster. They represent 1/3 of the entire camp, which is probably one of the reasons it's hosted in Quebec.

2. Reigning U17 World Cup Quarter-Finalists and U20 CONCACAF Champions. And we did that on a shoestring compared to the Americans, the Germans, the English, etc. Our player selection process is actually quite strong.

3. Quebec girls have had a 30yr monopoly on physical play. It's their culture, and like Canadian hockey their grit and competitiveness is to be celebrated and revered.

4. Morace and her staff are 9 months in. Everyone knows the problems. I'm interested in hearing their solutions.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Vic

Quick thoughts:

4. Morace and her staff are 9 months in. Everyone knows the problems. I'm interested in hearing their solutions.

So am I. What does their plan says, assuming they were asked for one by the CSA during the interviewing process, no?

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by fishman

Apparently, Morace and her staff took Neil and Montagliani to Coverciano, the FIGC's Technical Sector Headquarters. Neil has been accepted by the FIGC to study there, presumably to receive some level of UEFA certification.

It seems that Neil is climbing the ladder rather quickly. Does she speak Italian so as to study there.

[The Ref]

A podcast from Chile that I heard said that Canada WNT will be playing in the Bi-Centennial Cup in Chile January 12-24 next year. Total of 8 national teams in it.