Alberto7 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I don't know if anybody has noticed this: The top 2 scorers in MLS are ex-TFC players: 1-Jeff Cunningham 16 goals 2-Conor Casey 15 goals I wonder why they are doing so well now but had such a hard time in Toronto? I know that Casey only played a couple of games but Cunningham was in TO for a year or so. Any ideas? Pressure? Bad coaching? Injuries? Bad service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 This has been debated ad nauseum lately but the consensus seems to be: Cunninham: wrong coach, wrong system, no motivation. Casey: little harder to peg. Was trying to build his career coming in and didn’t get much of a shot. I read a good post on the score blogs a little while ago that basically stated the problem was always about service and less about finishing (by MLS standards). Cunningham is still the guy who misses boat loads of opportunities but he gets 3 or 4 more a game with the players he’s with in Dallas. I’d have to agree with that. It was almost like Carver was expecting some top shelf finishing talent out of meddling MLS. There are maybe 2 or 3 guys in the league who can’t hold true to that form but that’s it. You can’t sh!t your pants when your striker misses clear chances because it happens all the time. BTW for a team that’s looking to Pablo Vitti, Sam Cronin, and Chad Barrett on the wing right now … Jeff Vandenberg would look pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 The team not only needs some legitimate flank midfielders/wingers for next season but also a playing system that utilizes that attacking width. JDG in the holding role gives TFC a player capable of hitting accurate longer diagonal passes to the more advanced flank midfielders in order to quickly change the point of attack, thus opening up space for other attacking options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Even Carlos Ruiz did well with Olimpia in Paraguay and got signed by Puebla, a top tier team in Mexico, which is arguably a step up from MLS:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Ruiz_%28footballer%29 Conor Casey was another Brian McBride scenario in that he was returning with the intention of playing for his hometown team but TFC had the first claim on returning USMNT players. I strongly suspect that John Carver's coaching was a significant part of the problem with the other two because they didn't fit neatly into a British style 4-4-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squid2 Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 I have a contact who does some contract work for the Rapids and he takes great delight in thanking TFC for Conor Casey. Where it's relevant is this, 7 of Casey's goals have been game winners; and another 5 have secured a tie. That's some key finishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Not to mention that Edson Buddle has been doing great for LA Galaxy. Really, these players are performing better with a supporting cast that compliments their style of play, and a coaching staff that's experienced enough to maximize a player's potential. I'm sure the same will happen to Vitti, Barrett, Ibrahim or Gerba, if they were at a different team. Talented players cannot perform if they are handicapped (coaching, bad turf, poor service, etc) in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuirtonPark Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 In a chat last year with coach JC (who lived nearby at the time), he said he saw Cunningham as a one trick pony who was not particularly good at the trick, often running into the keeper or driving the ball at the keeper. I asked if the issue was the rest of the team not playing to his strengths - Cunningham liked the ball played through the back four on the ground so he could run onto the pass. TFC booted the ball over the defence, sometimes into the corner, so Jeff was often forced to play as a winger rather than as a striker. But JC's mind was made up. In fairness, Cunningham's scoring style/skills seem to have matured greatly since going to Dallas, from the highlights I have seen this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 ^ the man has 100+ goals. I would not exactly say his skill set has "matured". I think you identified his problems with TFC. He got very poor service and his confidence waned. He got a new life in Dallas and he's making the most of it. Again, Cunningham was a square peg that was expected to fit into a round hole and that usually only results in success if you are dealing with a player with top 1% talent. Jeff's not a top 1% player but he's shown himself capable of scoring goals in this league. His confidence is skyhigh now an he's scoring goals for fun at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Coaching aside, let's not lose sight of the fact Cunningham wasted a gazillion chances in his time here. You can point out service all you want but the fact is he rarely ever put away the chances he got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 ^ very true...that missed sitter vs. Impact last year at BMO was by far the most galling. However, i'm left to wonder now if those horrible misses were, in large part, due to a massive lack of confidence. He's not wasting many chances for FCD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbailey62 Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr ^ very true...that missed sitter vs. Impact last year at BMO was by far the most galling. However, i'm left to wonder now if those horrible misses were, in large part, due to a massive lack of confidence. He's not wasting many chances for FCD We should also not forget about his quality goal against Vancouver that was called back on an incorrect offside call. That one play might have made a huge difference in terms of his confidence and his acceptance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr Again, Cunningham was a square peg that was expected to fit into a round hole and that usually only results in success if you are dealing with a player with top 1% talent. Jeff's not a top 1% player but he's shown himself capable of scoring goals in this league. His confidence is skyhigh now an he's scoring goals for fun at the moment. I heard a rumour second hand involving a reliable inside source about the reason why Cunningham and Carver had their major falling out. It wasn't related primarily to square pegs and round holes type stuff but was at least initially due to matters that happened off the field of play. What John Carver didn't seem to grasp is that in an MLS context the head coach has to try to get the best out of the players he has available and find a system that fits his roster rather than trying to rigidly force his preferred style of play because players on big money guaranteed contracts can't simply be dropped to the reserves and replaced in first team terms by another top player during the next transfer window when the manager takes a severe dislike to them as would happen at big spending clubs in the UK like Newcastle United. Cunningham was similar in stature in MLS terms to someone like Alan Shearer in an EPL context but was treated with a complete lack of respect by a newcomer to the league who clearly thought it was all beneath him. Fast forward 18 months and John Carver is unemploy(ed/able) and Jeff Cunningham is scoring goals for fun again. I still find it almost incredible that so much of the fanbase idolized John Carver and were happy to see him back this season. In the UK he would have been quickly shown the door at a lot of clubs after his winning team gets to keep their starting positions nonsense and his embarrassing weekly postgame emotional meltdowns but there still seems to be a major cultural cringe that British is inherently better than North American when it comes to soccer that resulted in him getting way more leeway than he deserved and I say that as someone who comes from the UK originally myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard I still find it almost incredible that so much of the fanbase idolized John Carver and were happy to see him back this season. As do I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard I still find it almost incredible that so much of the fanbase idolized John Carver and were happy to see him back this season. In the UK he would have been quickly shown the door at a lot of clubs after his winning team gets to keep their starting positions nonsense and his embarrassing weekly postgame emotional meltdowns but there still seems to be a major cultural cringe that British is inherently better than North American when it comes to soccer that resulted in him getting way more leeway than he deserved and I say that as someone who comes from the UK originally myself. You know, thinking back I did get that sense that Carver felt he was slumming it in MLS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by CanadianSoccerFan Coaching aside, let's not lose sight of the fact Cunningham wasted a gazillion chances in his time here. You can point out service all you want but the fact is he rarely ever put away the chances he got. Yeah. Chances were left wanting. Very numerous and very good chances. Just the way it goes sometimes. At some point it just stops working for strikers. The reasons mater not, strikers are paid to convert and Cunningham didn't. BBTB makes a point though. An odvious point but one which gets almost dismissed at times around here and it's that soooo much of managing in modern football comes down to recognizing the reality of your circumstances and dealing with it and JC just didn't match up to that. MLS rules, rigid salary caps, the wild climate of the MLS season. He just couldn't get his head around it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Carter very effectively kept his "never was a coach, why should he suddenly become one in North America" status for me from day one. Don't know what others saw in him (or Cummings for that matter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Cheeta BBTB makes a point though. An odvious point but one which gets almost dismissed at times around here and it's that soooo much of managing in modern football comes down to recognizing the reality of your circumstances and dealing with it and JC just didn't match up to that. MLS rules, rigid salary caps, the wild climate of the MLS season. He just couldn't get his head around it all. This seems to be a common theme among foreign coaches that have come to the league. Gullit was much the same in LA. Anyone that's read the Beckham Experiment can attest to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.