snake Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 with the western teams making the jump to mls is a team in winnipeg now more feasable with no west coast travel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 If anything, losing the western teams would make the travel worse for a potential Winnipeg entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 It will be interesting to see if soccer will be accomodated in any way with the new Bomber stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Winnipeg isn't THAT much further west than the Minnesota Thunder. Travel-wise, I think a Winnipeg team will be fine. If there is ownership willing to pay, and keep paying while there is a fan base built, USL-1 is quite feasible. Look at some of the franchises in the states, and some that have come and gone, in some strange locations with stranger stadium setups. Of course, do you really want to play USL-1 in a 30,000 seat CFL stadium, in a smaller city that has no history of pro soccer? Winnipeg FC could either be a tremendous success, or a worse fiasco than the Edmonton Aviators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Cyrus in a smaller city that has no history of pro soccer? The Winnipeg Fury was the (real)Canadian Soccer League champions in 1992. Upset the mighty Vancouver 86ers during the playoffs. The Fury players included Carlo Corrazin, Paul Fenwick, Pat Onstad, Tony Nocita, and Ian Carter, and all became MNT members. So there's history, but financing (in light of the travel costs) is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 I believe that in order for teams in the west to come in successfully, a new team in the east will have to be established (at least a year in advance), and at least one other team in the west will have to join them either in the same year or a year or two later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco-Ruskie Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 quote:Originally posted by redhat The Winnipeg Fury was the (real)Canadian Soccer League champions in 1992. Upset the mighty Vancouver 86ers during the playoffs. The Fury players included Carlo Corrazin, Paul Fenwick, Pat Onstad, Tony Nocita, and Ian Carter, and all became MNT members. So there's history, but financing (in light of the travel costs) is another matter. I think a USL-1 team will be good for Winnipeg. No matter how deep of a history is Winnipeg doesnt have the population to support MLS. With Portland, Vancouver and maybe Montreal going to MLS I think Winnipeg can be a strong franchise for USL-1 I heard the owners of the Ottawa CFL franchise are working with the Ottawa Fury to bring them to USL-1. Ottawa might steal the Fury name from Winnipeg, just like they stole the Rough Riders from Saskatchewan [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibby Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Hey now the Ottawa Football Club, founded 1876 became the Rough Riders in 1898. Then became the Senators for 1925/1926, returning to the Rough Riders in 1927. The Regina Rugby Club, founded 1910 became the Roughriders in 1924. Just setting things straight, btw... f*ck you Gleiberman and Chen for killing a 120 year old club. That aside I hope it's not going to stay Ottawa Fury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Winnipeg will never have MLS. No major sponsor to step up. I have my doubts about USL-1, as much as the possibility of the NHL coming back, but if that ever happens I'll buy my tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco-Ruskie Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 quote:Originally posted by redhat Winnipeg will never have MLS. No major sponsor to step up. I have my doubts about USL-1, as much as the possibility of the NHL coming back, but if that ever happens I'll buy my tickets. An NHL team has a salary cap of over 50 million so I think having no corporate sponsor will not impact a USL-1 team a USL-1 team can probably be supported by a number of local companies Even winnipegs cfl team costs more to run than a USL-1 team. The CFL salary cap is 4.5 million higher than MLS. The only reason I believe MLS wont work in winnipeg is because of the soccer stadium requirement. a USL-1 team can share a stadium with a local university or the CFL team. It would cost less than even the Manitoba Moose to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury It will be interesting to see if soccer will be accomodated in any way with the new Bomber stadium. Looks like it's going to be a real sharp venue, and I'd be happy to watch a match with that sheltered design under the roof but,,, plastic field with grid-iron lines? Ug. University Stadium will get a complete refit (including the grandstand) as part of the Bomber stadium scheme. Can't imagine it being a whole heck of a lot better than what it currently is, that is to say it'll still be a pretty bare-bones operation but with the Bison grid-iron operations moving into the new Bomber stadium I could see University Stadium having a dedicated soccer pitch. Grass pitch, depending what they do to the grandstand say at least a 4,000 seater (plus whatever additions), and with the way things have evolved in Winnipeg over the last 20 years the UoM site is a waaay better location than it was in the late '80s. Add a roof and the venue could just end up sceaming "USL 1st Division!". Don't know why some people are so cynical. Things have changed so much over the last decades I can't help but wonder why we don't have a 1st Division team yet, and a well supported and successful one at that. Travel always gets brought up but it is what it is. The USL has never been shy about taking on teams from the 4 corners of North America if they can pay their way. And I'm sure the eastern teams (including incoming New York) would prefer flying to Minneapolis/Winnipeg over jetting to Vancouver/Portland. Of course if Vancouver & Portland both keep 1st Div franchises in their region one more team out west is a welcome stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianfoot Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Franco-Ruskie An NHL team has a salary cap of over 50 million so I think having no corporate sponsor will not impact a USL-1 team a USL-1 team can probably be supported by a number of local companies Even winnipegs cfl team costs more to run than a USL-1 team. The CFL salary cap is 4.5 million higher than MLS. The only reason I believe MLS wont work in winnipeg is because of the soccer stadium requirement. a USL-1 team can share a stadium with a local university or the CFL team. It would cost less than even the Manitoba Moose to run. Don't forget that there's more than just salary. Travel Expenses, Hotels, Medical Insurance, Infrastructure(rent,etc), security and oh yah you got another 30people on top of the players roster to pay. You also have to think about running a reserve squad. That also needs some $$$ to be invested. Training facilities, etc. I think one can easily assume that the Whitecaps total budget is probably $3,5million to $4millions and that's a USL-1 Team. Now the budget would be higher if they were paying a mortgage toward their Stadium(waterfront). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco-Ruskie Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 quote:Originally posted by orletafc Don't forget that there's more than just salary. Travel Expenses, Hotels, Medical Insurance, Infrastructure(rent,etc), security and oh yah you got another 30people on top of the players roster to pay. You also have to think about running a reserve squad. That also needs some $$$ to be invested. Training facilities, etc. I think one can easily assume that the Whitecaps total budget is probably $3,5million to $4millions and that's a USL-1 Team. Now the budget would be higher if they were paying a mortgage toward their Stadium(waterfront). I consider 4 million to be an affordable product when you consider how much Toronto spends to run its team coaching staff reserve team and the two academy teams they have. I also heard they imported a lot of technology from the English Premier League to help strategize in USL you dont need that stuff nor do you need your own stadium. They also spend much less on marketing most of Torontos marketing comes from BMO Bank and USL doesnt need that. the whitecaps played in a stadium for only 5000 people and look how long they survived and Impacts shirt sponsor was the Gouvernment of Quebec so with so little operating cost I dont see why the Province, the city or a local businessman cant sponsor them. Eitherway, if Winnipeg gets a USL team it will be the cheapest major sports team to operate when you consider the payrole of the Winnipeg blue bombers and Manitoba Moose. CFLs salary cap is double of MLS and USL usually spend less than MLS teams with few exceptions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnie Monster Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I interviewed Lenarduzzi in 2001 when the previous owner, David Stadnyk, bailed on the team after losing his shirt on the stock market. Back then, the Whitecaps operating budget was just over $1 million per year. That included front office staff & expenses, and operational costs for the mens and womens senior teams. USL-1 travel costs have obviously risen since then with the inclusion of far-reaching teams in Miami, Puerto Rico, etc. The Caps are also now operating a prospects side, the reserve / residency side, and dozens of youth teams and coaches under its umbrella. All those things aside, $1 million was a pretty good operating budget for a club that was perceived to be a jewel of the league back then, and it would certainly be adequate for a Winnipeg club getting its feet wet in professional waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 I doubt a USL-1 team can operate effectively on a $1 million operating budget now. As far as I am aware the Whitecaps first team still operates at a loss despite selling out Swangard for most of this season's games and having what seems to be a fairly healthy stable of sponsors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Richard I doubt a USL-1 team can operate effectively on a $1 million operating budget now. As far as I am aware the Whitecaps first team still operates at a loss despite selling out Swangard for most of this season's games and having what seems to be a fairly healthy stable of sponsors. I'm sure most USL-1 teams lose money. Lets say the Caps pull in 5,000 a game for 15 games and make a net profit of $20 off each (ticket, cut of refreshments, etc). That comes out to $1.5 million and that might be generous. Salaries alone would eat most of that plus travel, lodging etc. Even teams like Portland and Montreal who draw decent 5 digit crowds regularly would only pull in $3 million. They might be breaking even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Everyone seems to have excellent points on how Winnipeg can sustain a USL-1 franchise. Even with a budget of $1-3 million, I have my doubts as to the feasibility of operating such as a sports entity. The only way is if there's a really rich owner (like Kerfoot) who supports and understand professional soccer, or ... maybe if there's a partnership between local owners and an MLS team, like Toronto FC. Imagine if Winnipeg's USL-1 team becomes TFC's minor league farm team/development team. They can share the costs, circumvent some MLS restrictions on development rosters, and TFC can increase their marketing profile in the Prairies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Maybe the Whitecaps will show TFC the way on this. Lenarduzzi has already publicly stated that the club is contemplating continuing with a team in USL-1 as a place for the residency players to graduate to and as a further step in the club's development ladder. The Whitecaps USL-1 team will not necessarily play out of Vancouver though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianfoot Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Would be an interesting development if some clubs form their own league because of the NuRock issue. That might actually jumpstart a couple of Canadian clubs to join in, who knows. Whitecaps Montreal Toronto All of them could eventually make the jump to have a "reserve" team in the new league while their main force would be in the MLS. While on the other side some PDL teams might join the newely created league: Victoria London Plus any other disgruntled American Teams. Who knows there might be a smaller franchise fee or none at all as long as there is secured financial backing. That way the V-Cup might end up with 1 or more extra teams joining in. Now the only question is where would the newely created MLS "reserve" play out of or be based in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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