La Volpe Claims Mexico Threw WCQ Game

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

It's pathetic the way people on here use this corruption stuff as a crutch whenever Canada fails to do well rather than facing up to fact the CMNT is not strong enough for qualification to be a reasonable expectation.

I have to agree with this post, anybody who played soccer at a decent level at one time or another was faced with the option of saving players to risking cards and injuries when they prime objective was previously obtained.

It's not hard to understand why a coach like La Volpe (which means The Fox in italian by the way) is making these comments right now. He is really saying that under his command the national team was never in any danger of not going to the world cup, compare to what they're going through now. He is also implying that he had so much advantage that he was able to please the concacaf president, not by throwing the game but just playing three starters and probably asking his players in the dressing room not to risk any injuries or cards because that might just cut their chance to be considered in the final roster for the world cup. I would even go further to said that he probably consulted the Mexican authorities about what to do about that game and I don't doubt for a minute that they told him to do what he ended up doing.

La Volpe is a very proud coach who works very hard on the field and he doesn't like the Mexican media or any media as a matter of fact. Maradona is now having a similar problem in Argentina and he just said yesterday in a press conference, that the soccer reporters are really very tiring and that he would love to give each one of them a team to coach to see what they can do....then he went on to say that the more he listens to the reporters the more he likes himself. lol

Many people in this board complaint about us never getting a break in WCQ but the truth is that we don't deserve a break, because our director and management don't do anything to improve our chances to get a break or even respect from the other concacaf countries.

I firmly believe that if we were ever in a position to help an other country in their quest to qualified without compromising our chances, the coach would do it just like La Volpe did it and just like Germany did with Austria in the 82 world cup.

Neighbor helping neighbor has never been bad politics.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

I firmly believe that if we were ever in a position to help an other country in their quest to qualified without compromising our chances, the coach would do it just like La Volpe did it and just like Germany did with Austria in the 82 world cup.

Neighbor helping neighbor has never been bad politics.

So you advocate cheating and unfair play. Nice ethical values.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Euh? In this case I think FK only example is suggesting Canada was the benificiary of corruption.

I agree that some are a little bit quick to transform every bad call Canada suffered into a possible corruption proof but in this thread we're discussing a CONCACAF matter that doesn't involve Canada. I also think that CONCACAF is far from being a clean organization so when a coach comes up with such a claim I think we have a right to "not to be surprise" by that kind of news.

Agreed, I think that we all know that corruption had little to do with our failed WCQ bids. We finished too far back on each occasion to even contemplate the fact that corruption was a major factor. If he (BBTB) or anyone else has read what I think on this over the years of our our play and results in WCQ over the past four campaigns, it should be pretty clear.

Corruption did very likely have something to do with the draw in Edmonton, but we had plenty of opportunities to redress he situation earlier and later in that WCQ campaign and didn't.

To me, this whole thread, as I saw it, is a discussion about Concacaf and not Canada.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

So you advocate cheating and unfair play. Nice ethical values.

Soccer is rarely ethical. We can't have our head in the sand. Eric is simply being realistic about things work in 99% of the footballing world.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Soccer is rarely ethical. We can't have our head in the sand. Eric is simply being realistic about things work in 99% of the footballing world.

It's one thing not being naive on the field (ie. Haiti-Canada U-23) and not expecting fair play from your opponent. But suggesting it's OK for some neighbours to be "neighbours with benefit" is a no-no IMO. It's wrong and we should avoid that kind of stuff.

BTW, let's remember that Canada has also a black eye with the Merlion Cup scandal. I hope we won't make the same mistake again.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Soccer is rarely ethical. We can't have our head in the sand. Eric is simply being realistic about things work in 99% of the footballing world.

As a realists, of course we all believe that there some truth to the fact that soccer is not ethical. Nobody is trying to be a polyanna about it. But the Germany versus Austria game in 82 resulted in important changes in future world cups. Namely, the final games in the group stage are now played concurrently in order to avoid conspiracies or appearance of conspiracies. So why would they have bothered instituting those changes?

But the hundreds of million of people who follow the game worldwide would love to believe that that (the notion that soccer is rarely ethical) is not the case. Or more specifically, that the levels of corruption and politics vary from region to region. To suggest that: " if we were ever in a position to help an other country in their quest to qualified without compromising our chances, the coach would do it just like La Volpe did it and just like Germany did with Austria in the 82 world cup" in such a matter of fact way is odd because then why is this (LaVolpe acknowledgement that they threw a game) a story that is even newsworthy. If these practices are as common and accepted in soccer as a 4-4-2 formation then who would even bother showing up to the games? Why would we bother coming to this forum?

At some degree the game is decided and has to be decided on the pitch. Sport is sport, ; politics is politics. Many of the fans who pack the stadium may be cynical about it all but they are there to watch athletes, not politicians.

[Eric]

^ Canada is a HOUSE LEAGUE country when it comes to soccer, and comments like yours prove it time and time again.

If FIFA had to change the rules for some world cup games, it only means that now is not so easy to throw a game, NOT that countries or clubs would not try to keep doing it.

And to prove my point about how house league you are, your comment sums it up,

"(LaVolpe acknowledgement that they threw a game) a story that is even newsworthy. If these practices are as common and accepted in soccer as a 4-4-2 formation then who would even bother showing up to the games? Why would we bother coming to this forum?

THE WORLD OF PROFESSIONAL SPORTS IS ABOUT MONEY AND RESULTS!!! not ethics my friend and in todays society and specially in north america HYPOCRISY is the word the rules sports and society.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

I thought you were supposed to be a lawyer. How exactly do vague comments made to a tabloid journalist, which according to babelfish "leave many questions to the air", represent a conspiracy?

I'm talking about your suggestion that he is making this up in order to make money. Presumably newspapers pay him to do it at a time that they think they will sell more papers, they sell a whole bunch of extra copies as a result and everyone's a winner. Or are you alleging instead that this is all some dastardly scheme thought up by La Volpe on his own with the Mexican media his unwilling dupes?

Gotta love how you are the one to come up with this suggestion and then insultingly take other people to task for trying to make sense of it. We so badly need a facepalm icon on this board.

[BrennanFan]

I would say that concacaf is the most corrupt confederation there is. and that's saying something. there was so much back scratching going on in conmebol that FIFA stepped in and imposed European refs to do the WCQ games. Thats just they way football is.

OF COURSE THIS CRAP HAPPENS IN CONCACAF. the imbalance of power within the concacaf countries makes the situation ripe for corruption. la volpe speaks the truth. I know it's hard to believe for some bc this type of corruption is mostly non existent in Canada, but that just the way it is. jack warner is absolute scum, he gained millions and millions of dollars personally by TnT's qualification, there is no way, with all the power he has, that he did not pull strings to make it happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0puFaKUg56I

[BrennanFan]

anyways, La Volpe's quote in the article is that mexico chose to "avoid problems" with those who run concacaf, and thus decided to take it easy against TnT.

[SilverSamurai]

quote:Originally posted by Avram Grant

Any Spanish speakers here who can help me out with this? http://www.diez.hn/Sintesis/Lo-mas-leido/Ediciones/2009/09/03/Noticias/Los-protegidos-por-Jack-Warner

The way I understand it, the Hondurans are up in arms because they now worry T&T will try extra hard tomorrow, in order to pay back the Mexicans, nevermind waiting until the last qualifying game to return the back scratch.

You pretty much got it.

And didn't Mexico beat the US in the away leg in the US last month? They also beat the US at the Azteca, but that didn't really come across as much of a surprise I don't think.

[squizz1402635577]

For those of you who haven't read "Foul!" by Andrew Jennings, I highly recommend it.

It should put to rest any and all doubts you may have had about the sickening, endemic corruption in world football, and CONCACAF in particular.

Then again, if you're still able to enjoy an international game without questioning whether every on-field event is part of some grander conspiracy, maybe you shouldn't read the book, and just enjoy the game.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

I'm talking about your suggestion that he is making this up in order to make money.

Even though the post you responded to contained the following?

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

From the garbled babelfish translation above it's not clear to me that he actually does admit to anything more than fielding a weakened team once qualification was secured. The stuff about Jack Warner for example is not in quotes but is a phrase is added by the journalist.

He gave an interview in the run up to a Mexico game to make some money. Big deal. That does not represent a conspiracy. Unfortunately, lot's of teams field experimental lineups once they have qualified to the next stage of FIFA events. The spin from the journalist about Jack Warner etc may be because losing to T&T even in those circumstances is acutely embarrassing to Mexicans.

What's ironic about all this corruption stuff is that the one team in CONCACAF that has actually been caught red handed doing it is Canada's, albeit over 20 years ago. It's easier to get away with in a country where most people simply don't care and very few are paying any attention to the games. Meanwhile if you are the goalkeeper of a Central American country that just lost 4-0 with 70 to 80% of the population watching the game on television, walking the streets of your home town is probably not a particularly pleasant experience in the aftermath.

[86Rooster]

Anyone have a copy of the interview with Jack Warner where he rants extensively about how much he hates the Canadian Mens soccer team. Be interesting to read that again now.

Any legitimate organization would have fired him for making statements such as he did in that interview. How can someone be president of an organization and openly say that he hates one of it member countries.

This man and Don King need to be put onto a dilapidated space shuttle and launched at the sun.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

Even though the post you responded to contained the following?

Irrelevant. You were one jumping down my throat and pouring scorn on the possibility of La Volpe being sincere in his comments and suggesting he was making it up at a carefully chosen time for the sake of getting some extra cash on the side. I think to most people that would sound conspiratorial.

There's a reason why this is garnering so much media attention throughout Concacaf including in places like Honduras, and it is not because the possibility of corruption in this region is so far fetched that everyone would be quick as you seemingly were to dismiss it as a remote possibility - especially when the alternative suggestion to why he is making these comments sounds just as morally dubious, whether you choose to be pedantic about the term "conspiracy" or not.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

You effectively built a strawman argument and responded to that rather than what I had actually just written. Beyond that I'm not in the least bit surprised that all kinds of paranoid theories are flying around right now where the hex is concerned. I know from first hand experience that a lot of people formulate these sorts of theories as a way to deal with stress even in amateur level soccer. Just part of the human condition, in my opinion. Anyway, over and out for this thread the JDG to TFC stuff is much more interesting.

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by 86Rooster

Anyone have a copy of the interview with Jack Warner where he rants extensively about how much he hates the Canadian Mens soccer team. Be interesting to read that again now.

Any legitimate organization would have fired him for making statements such as he did in that interview. How can someone be president of an organization and openly say that he hates one of it member countries.

This man and Don King need to be put onto a dilapidated space shuttle and launched at the sun.

How long ago was that interview?

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

You effectively built a strawman argument and responded to that rather than what I had actually just written.

Nope, I hadn't built any sort of argument - I was trying to make sense of what you were trying to suggest since you felt it important enough to attack me yet again over. And to repeat, you were the one who for some reason decided to go after me for daring to make an innocuous "I'm not surprised"-type comment. Trying to paint things as though you are some sort of innocent victim here won't work.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

How long ago was that interview?

I think he is referring to the comments he made on the eve of T&T officially eliminating Canada back in 2000 in qualifying for the 2002 World Cup. He claimed he made these comments with his "T&T" hat on and was also getting back at Bob Lenarduzzi who as a Sportsnet commentator, had stated that T&T's high ranking was inaccurate and the only reason why it was that high was because Jack Warner was FIFA Vice-President. I can't remember any of Jack's actual disparaging comments about Canada, but IIRC it was a "I hope we kill them" type comments (which unfortunately they did).

Now if the poster is referring to something else Jack said, I'd also be interested.

[ag futbol]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Soccer is rarely ethical. We can't have our head in the sand. Eric is simply being realistic about things work in 99% of the footballing world.

Have to say i agree. While a lot of the stuff is grey as opposed to black and white, Canada needs to find ways to give itself the advantage.

Unfortunately, with the CSA the way it is right now, we're still playing in the sandbox.

I long for the day where I can look down the mainpage of this board without seeing various posts relating to corporate governance and soccer infrastructure.

[86Rooster]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

I think he is referring to the comments he made on the eve of T&T officially eliminating Canada back in 2000 in qualifying for the 2002 World Cup. He claimed he made these comments with his "T&T" hat on and was also getting back at Bob Lenarduzzi who as a Sportsnet commentator, had stated that T&T's high ranking was inaccurate and the only reason why it was that high was because Jack Warner was FIFA Vice-President. I can't remember any of Jack's actual disparaging comments about Canada, but IIRC it was a "I hope we kill them" type comments (which unfortunately they did).

Now if the poster is referring to something else Jack said, I'd also be interested.

I am sure that Jack used the word "hate" in relation to Canada at least once, i.e. I hate Canada, they are my most hated team, etc. I think it was the eve of the first meeting in 2002 WCQ. Anyway, it was totally classless.

[jpg75]

For those interested, the Honduras - T&T match is currently being streamed on www.Bet365.com you need to register and be logged in to watch.

[RJB]

quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0puFaKUg56I

What a video. What a video indeed. This guy is running CONCACAF. He needs to be ousted, and the CSA better be working against him. It's not like we have anything to lose.