WCQ

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Maradona was basically telling his critics in the press, in terms that were not polite but not as rude as they could have been, to eat their words.

Now Argentina has to stick with him, and unless the players just ignore him and play the way they feel they are going to have problems. I hear from commentators in Spain that he does not prepare for the rival at all, he pays no attention to who he is playing. Not sure it is true, but would not surprise me, since he played that way as well.

Just what I though, you don't even understand spanish. What Maradona said was "to the ones that didn't believe and specially to the press to suck it (suck my dick) for treating me that way, so now just keep on sucking". Now, if that is not rude and vulgar than I don't even want to know what you consider vulgar.

Maradona was chosen to be the coach simply because they though that the players they had in the national team were in need of a figure to relate to, because they were locking personality and desire when playing for Argentina. The biggest criticism was to the players coming from Europe, in Argentina they believe that many of those players don't have the desire and the respect for the national jersey that the domestic players have, therefore they were hoping that a national idol like Maradona could be the only one able to turn that around. Well, they are in the world cup now, so to a certain degree they were right.

Now the bull shjt the Spanish press says about South American football is always been considered that in South America, specially in Argentina. The last game was very well planned by Maradona and his staff, they went to Uruguay prepared not to lose and they end up winning and making the world cup, so don't believe every bull shjt you hear in Spain Jeffey, they don't have enough knowledge about world football to give an opinion about what goes on in the different national teams.....then again, neither do you.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by wasup

Jeffrey can I ask you a question ? Have you ever stept on a field , played in a final ? What is your Futbol backgrpound ? How can you say it is the easiest when every single game anyone can beat anyone . (bolivia 6-1 Argentina , etc ) no easy 3 points for anybody !!!! no feroe islands or san marino or Malawi or Samoa . Why do you think Suriname,French Guyana, and Guyana qualify in CONCACAF when Geographicaly they should play in CONMEBOL . Every group in Europe has 1 or 2 bad teams some groups more . The same goes with every other region . In CONMEBOL the quality of your opposition is by far the BEST !!!! Rarely will you find an empty stadium in the qualifying in CONMEBOL . I just feel your opinions are a little more personal than the obvious. QUALITY OF OPPOSITION !!!

The reason why it's tougher to qualify from Europe is if you take away the minnows (that everyone beats anyways) you are looking at some rpetty tough groups of only 4 or 5 teams. That's 1.5 spot for those 4-5 teams.

The presence of the minnows isn't an argument to say it's easier to qualify, it's an argument to say it's tougher. What's the point of having 1 or 2 teams per group that the top 4-5 teams will always win against?

So, in Europe you have between 6 or 8 very important games in your group, it gives you less room to make a mistake compare to CONMEBOL where you have 18 important games.

[The Ref]

FIFA disciplinary committee is considering suspending Maradona for up to 5 games due to all the complaints they have received for his vulgar outbursts.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

Just what I though, you don't even understand spanish. What Maradona said was "to the ones that didn't believe and specially to the press to suck it (suck my dick) for treating me that way, so now just keep on sucking". Now, if that is not rude and vulgar than I don't even want to know what you consider vulgar.

Maradona was chosen to be the coach simply because they though that the players they had in the national team were in need of a figure to relate to, because they were locking personality and desire when playing for Argentina. The biggest criticism was to the players coming from Europe, in Argentina they believe that many of those players don't have the desire and the respect for the national jersey that the domestic players have, therefore they were hoping that a national idol like Maradona could be the only one able to turn that around. Well, they are in the world cup now, so to a certain degree they were right.

Now the bull shjt the Spanish press says about South American football is always been considered that in South America, specially in Argentina. The last game was very well planned by Maradona and his staff, they went to Uruguay prepared not to lose and they end up winning and making the world cup, so don't believe every bull shjt you hear in Spain Jeffey, they don't have enough knowledge about world football to give an opinion about what goes on in the different national teams.....then again, neither do you.

First, the Argentine press has consistently said Maradona is not prepared for their rivals, and the people that repeat that in Spain are usually Argentines or those following the albiceleleste closely. Trying to make like there is this huge gap between Spain and Argentina is laughable, half the team plays in Spain. The connections have been tight and well-informed both ways for over 50 years.

As for the press conference: Eric, I write, publish and teach in Spanish. And have translated dozens of books. From the way you post you can maybe jerk off in Spanish, because what you understood from Diego's comments sure got you excited.

About translation. You have to translate in a way that is intelligible in the receiving language, and by being literal you are in fact distorting both words and sense in this case.

By saying ""Que la chupen y sigan chupando" he was using a phrase that, as you say, refers to sucking cock, but not directly. We assume the "la" is "la polla", but it remains ambiguous, deliberately. But the meaning of that is to tell the press they can go screw themselves, that they were wrong to criticize him. It could also be understood as they are going to have to put up with himn for a while, like it or not. He never refers directly to his member, or theirs, he is neutral. It is in rude but not as rude as it could be by a long shot.

If you don't understand Spanish and use it in everyday life you can't comprehend how an apparently extreme phrase translated is in fact pretty normal. Six year olds say "joder" all the time, without that meaning they are saying "f-ck". And they are not often chastisted for language that when translated sounds pretty strong in English.

Language has to be graded according to use. What sounds harsh in English is usually, in Spanish, a step or two tamer. Or more. Swearing taboos simply do not exist in public discourse in most Spanish countries, you can get away with pretty well anything. English is extremely puritan and literal in comparison. And you will never get the scandal for a swear word in Spanish like you do in English, strong and foul words do not have anywhere at all the same impact.

Why don't you just admit that when you heard that you were thinking about Maradona's dick, which is why you have been so jumpy with your posts lately. But if you want to keep insisting that Spaniards and Argentines are confronted in football or that Maradona has the hots for you, keep posting, get it all out.

[The Ref]

Maradona as a coach leaves much to be desired. He just set himself up for criticism with his poor performance. To lash out with vulgarities against the press is not the way for a technical director to handle himself in public. He even didn't stop there, he continued attacking the press and blaming them for the problems he was having. It doesn't matter what gets lost in translation, it is still vulgar. If FIFA is considering a suspension of Maradona, is because they consider it inappropriate and unprofessional of him to be directing a team at the World Cup.

[Eric]

Jeffrey, I will repeat my self for the last time in regards to the knowledge you have about the spanish language and the relationship between Spain and Latin America, you don't know what that f**k (or joder according to you) you're talking about.

You have no clue whatsoever about Argentina and their spanish mix with Italian and their dialect called LUNFARDO, just keep focus in translating books, none native speakers of the spanish language really don't know if you're translations are correct or not.

You're not a native speaker so just stop being so arrogant and ignorant and go ask an Argentineans (not Argentines, that gives you away as a Brit) and learn what means what.

JODER doesn't mean F**CK (not even in Spain), joder is used in Argentina as BOTHER, do you understand? I think those are two completely different things.

Swearing in Argentina is much more harsh than it is in other spanish speaking countries. But what would you know about that anyway, I can see that you think Spain and Argentina are almost the same, just like Canada and England are the same too, right?

It is better if you just keep your mouth shut, otherwise Maradona is going to make good use of it, he will probably tell you, mamame vos también gringo chupa pija y mentiroso.

So Jeffrey, don't lie to non spanish speaking people in this forum about your understanding of the language, because what you learned over there has nothing to do with the spanish spoken in Latin America, so keep learning about the language and football maybe one day you'll become knowledgeable enough to have a meaningful discussion.

[hectorj]

quote:The reason why it's tougher to qualify from Europe is if you take away the minnows (that everyone beats anyways) you are looking at some rpetty tough groups of only 4 or 5 teams. That's 1.5 spot for those 4-5 teams.

Minnows can cause trouble sometimes. Yes, San Marino went 0 and 10, but Luxembourg beat Switzerland in Basel. Watch it on You Tube. The celebration is priceless. It could have cost Switzerland dearly, but they qualified nonetheless.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by hectorj

Minnows can cause trouble sometimes. Yes, San Marino went 0 and 10, but Luxembourg beat Switzerland in Basel. Watch it on You Tube. The celebration is priceless. It could have cost Switzerland dearly, but they qualified nonetheless.

I know that minnows can get a few results (Faroes won against Lithuania and tied Austria) but the general rule is they usually lose their games against the top 3-4 teams which most of the time means those games are rarely difference makers.

[canucklefan]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

Just what I though, you don't even understand spanish. What Maradona said was "to the ones that didn't believe and specially to the press to suck it (suck my dick) for treating me that way, so now just keep on sucking". Now, if that is not rude and vulgar than I don't even want to know what you consider vulgar.

Eric, I think there's another explanation to your point. I mean, Maradona's comments fit perfectly with the senelities of Jeffrey S. that refelcts his arrogant and insulting replies of this person. Maradona, who I always considered a man without class, put him at Jeffrey's level and he found that correct.

[canucklefan]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

You're not a native speaker so just stop being so arrogant and ignorant and go ask an Argentineans (not Argentines, that gives you away as a Brit) and learn what means what.

JODER doesn't mean F**CK (not even in Spain), joder is used in Argentina as BOTHER, do you understand? I think those are two completely different things.

You are right. In South America, joder's definition from Spain doesn't apply to joder's definition from South America. Those two definition have no connection at all.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

Jeffrey, I will repeat my self for the last time in regards to the knowledge you have about the spanish language and the relationship between Spain and Latin America, you don't know what that f**k (or joder according to you) you're talking about.

You have no clue whatsoever about Argentina and their spanish mix with Italian and their dialect called LUNFARDO, just keep focus in translating books, none native speakers of the spanish language really don't know if you're translations are correct or not.

You're not a native speaker so just stop being so arrogant and ignorant and go ask an Argentineans (not Argentines, that gives you away as a Brit) and learn what means what.

JODER doesn't mean F**CK (not even in Spain), joder is used in Argentina as BOTHER, do you understand? I think those are two completely different things.

Swearing in Argentina is much more harsh than it is in other spanish speaking countries. But what would you know about that anyway, I can see that you think Spain and Argentina are almost the same, just like Canada and England are the same too, right?

It is better if you just keep your mouth shut, otherwise Maradona is going to make good use of it, he will probably tell you, mamame vos también gringo chupa pija y mentiroso.

So Jeffrey, don't lie to non spanish speaking people in this forum about your understanding of the language, because what you learned over there has nothing to do with the spanish spoken in Latin America, so keep learning about the language and football maybe one day you'll become knowledgeable enough to have a meaningful discussion.

Great post Eric, knew you would just change the subject as you have been on every post you have made and have had shot down for the last three weeks. You post, but never defend your arguments, you just change them. LUNFARDO, in capital letters, can`t beat that. A dialect with great social significance in the early third of the last century. Maradona must have been speaking Lunfardo and thats why I totally missed the meaning of that phrase that got you all excited.

Instead of learning Lunfardo, what Maradona really needs are Guardiola lessons, because if you are making Messi look bad game after game you have a real problem.

I still think Argentina will make the final 8, because they have great talent, have some youth who are hungry. But they might have to coach themselve to get there.

I would like to not like Honduras, but I can't. I would like them to do well, basically because they have been a hard team, a tough team. If they look bad in the WC, after knocking us out in what felt like an embarrassment, it only makes it worse. Better to be able to say we were knocked out by a really good team.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

The reason why it's tougher to qualify from Europe is if you take away the minnows (that everyone beats anyways) you are looking at some rpetty tough groups of only 4 or 5 teams. That's 1.5 spot for those 4-5 teams.

The presence of the minnows isn't an argument to say it's easier to qualify, it's an argument to say it's tougher. What's the point of having 1 or 2 teams per group that the top 4-5 teams will always win against?

So, in Europe you have between 6 or 8 very important games in your group, it gives you less room to make a mistake compare to CONMEBOL where you have 18 important games.

Obviously there is a good case to be made that UEFA's qualifying is tougher, but Jeffrey said CONMEBOL's was the easiest of all 6 confederations! I agree that UEFA is probably "harder", although it's tough to compare because of the vastly different formats used. I think Argentina would not have qualified in Portugal's group (assuming they replace Portugal) but I also think even Peru or Bolivia would finish top 2 in Spain's group (assuming they would replace Bosnia).

Both Conmebol and UEFA eliminate teams that would usually qualify in other confederations.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Both Conmebol and UEFA eliminate teams that would usually qualify in other confederations.

I just realized that. It is a shame that the WC really does not represent the best 32 in the world, but rather the best few from isolated confederations. Maybe it has always been that way, but when one considers the way amacpher put it makes one wonder if the qualification system has severe faults.

[jonovision]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

I just realized that. It is a shame that the WC really does not represent the best 32 in the world, but rather the best few from isolated confederations. Maybe it has always been that way, but when one considers the way amacpher put it makes one wonder if the qualification system has severe faults.

This is true in any international competition. Jamaica probably has 10 or more 100m sprinters better than Canada's best, but we still get one or two entries into the Olympic field of 60 or so.

Personally I like seeing how teams from different continents match up instead of two Euro sides butting heads for the umpteenth time.

[gringo]

It is more about representation than that of the best 32

[The Ref]

No more bribes for FIFA officials. England's expensive gifts to officials caused problems.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/10/30/sp-fifa-rules.html

[TheSuperAttacker]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

but I also think even Peru or Bolivia would finish top 2 in Spain's group (assuming they would replace Bosnia).

Wow you must be high to believe that Peru or Bolivia would finish second in Group 5. Turkey would eat Peru and Bolivia, so would Belgium and Spain, and so would Armenia and Estonia!

[canucklefan]

quote:Originally posted by TheSuperAttacker

Wow you must be high to believe that Peru or Bolivia would finish second in Group 5. Turkey would eat Peru and Bolivia, so would Belgium and Spain, and so would Armenia and Estonia!

Armenia and Estonia, I doubt it, Belgium, maybe. I think you forgot the fact that Bolivia have beaten Brazil 2-1, Paraguay 4-1 and of course, Argentina 6-1. Peru had a problem with 3 of his best players if I remember well, those 3 players where suspended by the FPF.

Edit: those players were Jefferson Farfan from Schalke 04, Claudio Pizzarro from Werder Bremen, Paolo Guerrero from Hamburger (as you can see, Bosnia is not the only country with good strikers) and 2 others players, Santiago Acasete and Andres Mendoza.

[Daniel]

quote:Originally posted by TheSuperAttackerWow you must be high to believe that Peru or Bolivia would finish second in Group 5. Turkey would eat Peru and Bolivia, so would Belgium and Spain, and so would Armenia and Estonia!

Let me introduce you to a little concept called "home field advantage".

[TheSuperAttacker]

quote:Originally posted by canucklefan

Armenia and Estonia, I doubt it, Belgium, maybe. I think you forgot the fact that Bolivia have beaten Brazil 2-1, Paraguay 4-1 and of course, Argentina 6-1. Peru had a problem with 3 of his best players if I remember well, those 3 players where suspended by the FPF.

Edit: those players were Jefferson Farfan from Schalke 04, Claudio Pizzarro from Werder Bremen, Paolo Guerrero from Hamburger (as you can see, Bosnia is not the only country with good strikers) and 2 others players, Santiago Acasete and Andres Mendoza.

I am not a Belgium fan, but Fellaini, Hazard, Dembele, Witsel, Kompany, Van Buyten are all great players with quick speed too. Yeah they beat Argentina 6-1 when Argentina was in a Huge Slump!

[TheSuperAttacker]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

Let me introduce you to a little concept called "home field advantage".

OKay?! Belgium played Armenia and lost, Estonia played Belgium and drew. Come on Home field Advantage doesn't always work. If you play in Turkey, and Bosnia you are Bound to lose.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Belgium had a very bad qualifying run, but in my opinion they are a better team than Bosnia and should have been ahead of Turkey as well. Or close. I will miss their not being at the WC as they have a great bunch of young players.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by TheSuperAttacker

Wow you must be high to believe that Peru or Bolivia would finish second in Group 5. Turkey would eat Peru and Bolivia, so would Belgium and Spain, and so would Armenia and Estonia!

Classic overrating of UEFA. Estonia and Armenia are ranked around #100 in the world.

Anyway, the reason I chose group 5 to make my point is because of what happened in group 5. All Bolivia would need to do to finish 2nd in that group is beat up on the bottom 2 teams and maybe Belgium at home. They wouldn't need to beat Turkey or Spain. Bosnia didn't.

[TheSuperAttacker]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Classic overrating of UEFA. Estonia and Armenia are ranked around #100 in the world.

Anyway, the reason I chose group 5 to make my point is because of what happened in group 5. All Bolivia would need to do to finish 2nd in that group is beat up on the bottom 2 teams and maybe Belgium at home. They wouldn't need to beat Turkey or Spain. Bosnia didn't.

Dude the game is called Futbal and anything can happen. Armenia only lost against Spain 2-1, they drew Belgium, Estonia only lost 1-0 versus Brazil this year, they also Drew Portugal. Bosnia pulled a crucial Point from Turkey which guided us to the PLay-Offs. You cannot say that we didn't deserve that 2nd spot!

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by TheSuperAttacker

Dude the game is called Futbal and anything can happen. Armenia only lost against Spain 2-1, they drew Belgium, Estonia only lost 1-0 versus Brazil this year, they also Drew Portugal. Bosnia pulled a crucial Point from Turkey which guided us to the PLay-Offs. You cannot say that we didn't deserve that 2nd spot!

I didn't say Bosnia didn't deserve it. Turkey and Belgium choked against weaker teams and therefore those 2 most certainly do not deserve second-place.

But you are now contradicting yourself. Earlier you wrote "you must be high to believe that Peru or Bolivia would finish second in Group 5." And now you say "anything can happen."