WCQ

[The Ref]

Maradona saved his skin.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

What an unbelievable finish in CONCACAF. The yanks score off a corner on the last kick of the game to draw Costa Rica 2-2 and send Honduras to auto qualification.

[jpg75]

Holy crap, the US just stole Costa Ricas automatic qualification by tying the match in the 95th minute off a Bornstein header. 2-2 final.

Honduras walk into Cuscatlan and win 1-0 to go to the World Cup.

Costa Rica be playing Uruguay in the playoff.

[hectorj]

Honduras deserves it

a. They survived "The Group of Death" in 2nd round, unlike us

b. They have close calls in previous years and especially after Saturday's mess

c. Costa Rica had a "Jack Warner Special" in Round 2 and have been to WC many times

d. political turmoil (hopefully this isn't positive spin for the regime) so people need something positive

They did the hardest thing: qualify. I'd bet good money that they'll make Round 2 unless they get another GROUP OF DEATH.

[Portuguese Sensation]

So UEFA World Cup Qualifying is over...

Direct Qualification...

Denmark, Switzerland, Slovakia, Germany, Spain, England, Serbia, Italy, Holland

Playoff Round (based on current FIFA rankings)

POT A: Russia, France, Greece, Portugal

POT B: Ukraine, Republic of Ireland, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Slovenia

[Rivaldo]

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

Bosnia are in a decent position to qualify despite not beating anyone in the FIFA top 60

Decent, but Russia, France, Greece and Portugal are all in the top 20. Bosnia will have to beat one of them to go to South Africa.

quote:Originally posted by amacpher

OTOH Maradona's Argentina would never have a chance to qualify if they were put into Portugal's group.

Portugal was playing just as badly as Argentina. Remember, they failed to score at home against a 10-man Albania.

[beachesl]

Okay everybody, stop holding your breath,2nd place NorwayFINALLY eliminated.[)]

[Eric]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Eric, oh Eric. Never have I ever heard anyone in Spain talk about preferring the Comebol qualifying process over the European in 22 years here. Or even a comment about qualifying itself, since they assume that if they don't qualify, no matter what, it is obviously their fault.

Not that someone, sometime, could never have said it. But it is not a topic of discussion at all. Ever.

Why do you insist on just making little fables and fairy tales up as you go along to support lame arguments that you end up changing anyways after a day and a half?

Ay Jeffrey Jeffrey, I guess you have total knowledge of what everybody says in Spain (if you even speak proper spanish or castellano I'll be surprise....maybe catalán though) take you're time to read my posts before you jump like a jackass looking for attention.

I never said that people in Spain would prefer the CONMEBOL format, contrary to that what I said is, they would prefer not to play in a CONMEBOL format. It wouldn't be that easy for them to qualify if they ever had to go through what the South American national teams have to go through. Spain has it easy Jeffrey, very easy.... so get off the high horse since you're Canadian not Spaniard.

[beachesl]

Interesting to watch the Argentina -Uruguay match in a bar full of Argentines. Every time Messi touched the ball, the crowd yelled "¡Malicon!" (faggot). A bit troubling for me, both a Barcelona and Messi fan. I know there are some here who think he is the greatest ever, but he is so far only a shadow of what Maradona accomplished, Without excellent suppport on the field, such as he gets in barcelona, he is nothing but a second-rate side show. Many players who have played in Spain rate it as a "ladies league"because of the large number of penalties there. That, aand the lack of support, is why Messi has not been effective in South America for thenational team. Compare what he did and did not do (he did have some good moments in the first few moments of tonight's math, but nothing more) with the the brilliant few minutes thatTevez showed tonight.

Compare Messi with Maradona, who could decide a match almost completely on his own. as they say in Argentina, 1986 was about "maradona and ten dogh"s", as opposed to the very talented 1978 champions (albeit all pumped up with eprformance enhancing drugs).

[nolando]

Costa Rica vs Uruguay

I figure this could be a pretty even playoff. I don't think the top CONCACAF sides are that far off the mid-level CONMEBOL nations.

1-1 in Costa Rica. 2-0 to Uruguay in Montevideo.

3-1 aggregate to Uruguay.

[beachesl]

Uruguay was way too nervous tonight playing at home, their awesome attack never got started after a few brilliat moves in the first 15 minutes. If they get unstuck,watch out!

[RJB]

quote:Originally posted by wasup

By far it is the tougest , Yes I agree the fairest because of the fact that everyone plays everyone , but is it the tougest YES by FAR !!! Name one group tougher in Europe You might have one very tough group but you will always have BAD teams , easy three points (San Marino,Luxemburgh,Faroe Islands,Liecenstein,Malta and more ) In South America When you play Ecuador you play at noon and in 40 degree heat and 2500 feet altitude, Bolivia 3700 feet , Peru , Colombia Altitude add 50,000 crazy , passionate fans . Uruguay and Argentina and Paraguay anc Chile do not have any benefits as per weather or Altitude. It is as many european coaches along with Capello have said THE TOUGHEST !! The coaches in Europe hate sending their players !!

You're points are interesting, however, one can argue that poor results are much more forgiving in South America than they are in Africa. You can hide a poor result amongst an 18 game schedule a lot easier than you can in a six game schedule. Add to that that you need to finish top four(top five really), and it doesn't look so bad. I agree that the teams may be considered the most difficult, and the conditions the harshest, but the qualifying format is by far the most forgiving of any of them. Personally, I rate Africa as the most difficult, where nations have to win their group of four to advance, and then win their group of four to qualify! There is no forgiving a bad result in only six games, where no second place teams qualify. Look at Group C in Africa, where Egypt's one loss to Algeria could cost them qualification! Put that next to Argentina managing to qualify despite a series of poor results, and I don't know if South America is that difficult; again, merely more forgiving.

If we rate the strength of a Federation by who fails to qualify, that would be fun. Personally, I'd take Egypt over Ecuador. And I'd take many of the European teams over Ecuador too. Look at who may fail in Africa, and how many different nations have qualified for the previous few World Cups, and the strength of the continent starts to show through.

[RJB]

quote:Originally posted by CanadianSoccerFan

I agree. It would also benefit the sport in NZ to have more than one meaningful home game every 4 years.

I've heard an argument in the past in favour of amalgamating Asia and Oceania, so that there would be East Asia and Oceania in one conference, and West Asia in another conference. I'm not sure if that's the best solution, but something surely needs to be done with NZ being left behind in Oceania.

[hectorj]

Uruguay is off to playoff third cycle in a row. They have the experience and did well in all playoff 4 games they played in 2001 and 2005. I'd be highly surprised if the Ticos knock them off.

[earlimus]

quote:Originally posted by beachesl

Interesting to watch the Argentina -Uruguay match in a bar full of Argentines. Every time Messi touched the ball, the crowd yelled "¡Malicon!" (faggot). A bit troubling for me, both a Barcelona and Messi fan. I know there are some here who think he is the greatest ever, but he is so far only a shadow of what Maradona accomplished, Without excellent suppport on the field, such as he gets in barcelona, he is nothing but a second-rate side show. Many players who have played in Spain rate it as a "ladies league"because of the large number of penalties there. That, aand the lack of support, is why Messi has not been effective in South America for thenational team. Compare what he did and did not do (he did have some good moments in the first few moments of tonight's math, but nothing more) with the the brilliant few minutes thatTevez showed tonight.

Compare Messi with Maradona, who could decide a match almost completely on his own. as they say in Argentina, 1986 was about "maradona and ten dogh"s", as opposed to the very talented 1978 champions (albeit all pumped up with eprformance enhancing drugs).

I'm not an Argentine, and it's not my team, but all the same... what a bunch of idiots. Who the hell in their right mind would yell at Lionel Messi and call him a homo, when he's representing your country? I've seen very few matches under Maradonna, but I did watch the majority of their Olympic run last summer, where Messi carried the team on his shoulders and risked Barca's and his new coach's wrath by going in the first place. He's an undeniable talent and a pleasure to watch.

I never got to see Maradonna play a full match, but from what I know Messi has by no means met his current coach's past accomplishments. I don't see what that has to do with anything however. Since we're all big fans of the game (an reasonable bright folks), we all know that Maradonna has done a terrible job of coaching Argentina, and that his God-like status has blinded the eyes of many fans down there into continually putting their faith in him. The team is in shambles, and not one of their stars has been performing to the best of their ability. Messi included.

Let me think... could that possibly be because we're comparing his performances under a terrible coach to those of the best, most organised team in the world? A team whose coach just led them to an incredible treble?

Calling the biggest star that you have a faggot. Right. Lionel Messi of all people. I think the most important thing to take away from that is.... sometimes... soccer fans are just plain stupid. And psychotic.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

I can't believe people actually think it is tough to qualify out of South America.

Every team has qualified out of Comebol except Venezuela I think.

Everyone starts on an even playing field, with no seedings, no short rounds.

You can lose three straight to start and still get back because there are so many games.

You can have a bad spell in the middle and it does not matter.

You get to go to the same countries over and over again, you learn the travel, the cities, the stadiums. No surprises, or very rarely.

You know your rivals because you see them close up. Relative linguistic coherency adds to this as well, as the Brazilians understand and often speak Spanish: you get to read the opponent's press, hear what they have to say.

There are no weak rivals (any more, now that Venezuela has picked up), meaning all the games count, you have excellent competition always. Good rivals mean every nation raises its game.

The styles of play are relatively cohesive as well, much more than in Europe or Concacaf or Asia for example.

I would much prefer for Canada to go into a group of the top 10 in Concacaf and play home and away 18 games over 2 years. 10 home games, not 4 (or maybe 5). Time to develop team cohesion, gel, focus, get on a run, get some luck.

The way things are now you have no margin of error, it is do or die.

Comebol is in my opinion the best and "easiest" region to qualify from for all sides.

[Canuck Oranje]

^ I think there might be a lot of Ecuadorians, Colombians, Bolivians, Peruvians and Venezuelans that question your definition of "easiest."

I would agree that Comebol's approach to qualifications probably is the fairest and is most likely to qualify the best teams for the World Cup. What may already be forgotten by some is that Brazil started very slowly in this qualification tournament.

In Concacaf, there would still need to be a some sort of qualification to a final round of ten. And of course, Canada still need to qualify for the final 10.

Secondly, how would smaller and poorer countries in Central America or the Carribean handle the cost of such a large tournament if they were to qualify for the final qualification round? I suspect that may be the biggest impediment to doing something like Comebol does.

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

I can't believe people actually think it is tough to qualify out of South America.

Every team has qualified out of Comebol except Venezuela I think.

Everyone starts on an even playing field, with no seedings, no short rounds.

You can lose three straight to start and still get back because there are so many games.

You can have a bad spell in the middle and it does not matter.

You get to go to the same countries over and over again, you learn the travel, the cities, the stadiums. No surprises, or very rarely.

You know your rivals because you see them close up. Relative linguistic coherency adds to this as well, as the Brazilians understand and often speak Spanish: you get to read the opponent's press, hear what they have to say.

There are no weak rivals (any more, now that Venezuela has picked up), meaning all the games count, you have excellent competition always. Good rivals mean every nation raises its game.

The styles of play are relatively cohesive as well, much more than in Europe or Concacaf or Asia for example.

I would much prefer for Canada to go into a group of the top 10 in Concacaf and play home and away 18 games over 2 years. 10 home games, not 4 (or maybe 5). Time to develop team cohesion, gel, focus, get on a run, get some luck.

The way things are now you have no margin of error, it is do or die.

Comebol is in my opinion the best and "easiest" region to qualify from for all sides.

I agree that CONCACAF should change their format to have as many big nations as possible involved in qualifying matches until the end of the qualifying period.

But to say CONMEBOL is the easiest region to qualify from is rubbish. It's quite clearly the second-most difficult. Just because there's more room for error, doesn't mean its easier than the other confederations. It's like saying the Premiership is easier to win than the FA Cup.

Anyone else see Maradona's post-match interview? He went on some big rant where he told everyone who didn't believe in the team to "Suck it". The anchor-man on the news channel I watched that interview on thought Maradona was back on the drugs. Hard to argue with them too. Maradona has issues. Argentina will go 3-and-out in South Africa if they keep that muppet around.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Hey, amacpher, explain how it is second most difficult. I would like to see the logic, really.

If you were playing in a league of ten and the top four got to go to a superior competition, and where only two almost always got in and the other two almost always changed, I would say the odds were pretty good. And history has proven that to be the case, 9 of 10 have made a WC in the last 30 years.

But explain how you think I am wrong, I am sincerely interested to hear the argument. The way I see it, hang around long enough in Comebol and your number will come up. The only nation not enjoying that privilege so far is Venezuela.

Last WC: BR, ARG, Paraguay, Ecuador

2002: BR, ARG, Paraguay, Ecuador, Uruguay

1998: BR, ARG, Chile, Paraguay, Colombia

1994: BR, ARG, Colombia, Bolivia

1990: BR, ARG, Colombia, Uruguay

1986: BR, ARG, Uruguay, Paraguay

1982: BR, ARG, Chile, Peru

[amacpher]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Hey, amacpher, explain how it is second most difficult. I would like to see the logic, really.

If you were playing in a league of ten and the top four got to go to a superior competition, and where only two almost always got in and the other two almost always changed, I would say the odds were pretty good. And history has proven that to be the case, 9 of 10 have made a WC in the last 30 years.

But explain how you think I am wrong, I am sincerely interested to hear the argument. The way I see it, hang around long enough in Comebol and your number will come up. The only nation not enjoying that privilege so far is Venezuela.

Last WC: BR, ARG, Paraguay, Ecuador

2002: BR, ARG, Paraguay, Ecuador, Uruguay

1998: BR, ARG, Chile, Paraguay, Colombia

1994: BR, ARG, Colombia, Bolivia

1990: BR, ARG, Colombia, Uruguay

1986: BR, ARG, Uruguay, Paraguay

1982: BR, ARG, Chile, Peru

I don't see how that is an argument for C'BOL to be "easy". The format was completely different before 1998 qualifying for starters. I think you're arguing that C'BOL has the most parity. Parity != easy.

The current C'BOL format I think helps Brasil and Argentina because it allows time for the cream to rise to the top. But the amount of help the format gives these 2 teams is offset by how much the format hurts Bolivia and Venezuela. In a CAF/UEFA-style format, Bolivia's draw in Brasil or win over Argentina could've been huge. But the C'BOL format makes it tough (impossible?) for Bolivia, Peru and Venezuela to qualify IMO (unless they get better).

C'BOL teams along with UEFA teams are also historically the most successful in the World Cup proper. No other confederation comes close. All 5 C'BOL teams going to South Africa will have a legitimate shot at reaching the KO stage and most of them will succeed.

May I ask how you think C'BOL qualifying is easiest, especially since the format isn't radically different than the HEX used in CONCACAF (only the teams are much stronger in C'BOL). And Bahrain can't even beat New Zealand. What does that say about the strength of AFC after the top 3?

[The Ref]

Maradona was so pissed that he used vulgarities to refer to people who had criticized him. I think the man is still high on something. Messi wants nothing to do with his expletives.

[Wilfrid Laurier]

quote:Originally posted by Sigma

Too bad about the Czechs, but they just were not consistent enough. At least I will be able to watch the Slovaks with some passing interest.

Sigma, the Slovak team this year is intriguing. For the first time since Czechoslovakia split they have a pretty good collection of top end talent and their top players are all still young with lots of room for further development (Weiss, Hamsik, Stoch, Skrtel and Sestak). They remind me a little of the young Czech team (with a young Poborsky and Nedved) that surprised everyone at Euro 96.

Because of their youth and inexperience, they often don't play well with the lead and resort to desperation tactics instead of staying calm and keeping possession (much like Canada). I'm not expecting much but they could surprise a few teams that might overlook them next summer.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

Maradona was so pissed that he used vulgarities to refer to people who had criticized him. I think the man is still high on something. Messi wants nothing to do with his expletives.

Maradona was basically telling his critics in the press, in terms that were not polite but not as rude as they could have been, to eat their words.

Now Argentina has to stick with him, and unless the players just ignore him and play the way they feel they are going to have problems. I hear from commentators in Spain that he does not prepare for the rival at all, he pays no attention to who he is playing. Not sure it is true, but would not surprise me, since he played that way as well.

[wasup]

Jeffrey can I ask you a question ? Have you ever stept on a field , played in a final ? What is your Futbol backgrpound ? How can you say it is the easiest when every single game anyone can beat anyone . (bolivia 6-1 Argentina , etc ) no easy 3 points for anybody !!!! no feroe islands or san marino or Malawi or Samoa . Why do you think Suriname,French Guyana, and Guyana qualify in CONCACAF when Geographicaly they should play in CONMEBOL . Every group in Europe has 1 or 2 bad teams some groups more . The same goes with every other region . In CONMEBOL the quality of your opposition is by far the BEST !!!! Rarely will you find an empty stadium in the qualifying in CONMEBOL . I just feel your opinions are a little more personal than the obvious. QUALITY OF OPPOSITION !!!

[canucklefan]

One of Maradona problems IMO was that he was always trying to improve his team making drastic changes to the starting XI. Many people I know didn't like he did make start Palermo against Peru. On a personal note, another one I didn't like was Jonas Gutierrez playing at the right side. However, against Peru, it worked because it was Peru.