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quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

We can say the same about many of the countries in CONCACAF since the same problems exist as they do in the OFC. Hell, Canada has had two minnow in their own open stages in '06 and '10 and couldn't put them away in a clear fashion.

The countries of the south pacific field teams of part timers that play for fun on weekends. The mere notion that beating these teams is in any way comparable to beating fully professional teams like Jamaica, Honduras, Guatemala, Costa Rica is not a rational argument. You either don't understand how horrificly bad teams are in the south pacific or you need some mental help.

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Yet the same part-time procedures can easily apply to many of our CONCACAF opponents and yet we struggle with them.

The only one with mental issues is you, since you still are trying to find excuses for Canada's poor position. It seems your going to do harm to yourself if NZ were to actually qualify.

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quote:Originally posted by canucklefan

Argentina was very lucky today as Peru did tie the game 1-1 on 91 minutes but 2 minutes later later Palermo scored and give the win to Argentina. Still, Argentina plays horrible football, Peru has only 2 wins in the whole competition and scored in Argentina for the first time in 16 years.

And it's not over yet, the table is:

4. Argentina ...25 pts

5. Uruguay .....24 pts

6. Ecuador .....23 pts

Next games are Uruguay - Argentina in Uruguay and Chile - Ecuador in Chile. Uruguay - Argentina is going to be an interesting game, there's a strong rivality between the 2 to the point players exchange some hits during the games, they play rough and the 2 are in the need of a win in order to qualify to the WC.

To be clear, Argentina only need a draw to finish in the top 4.

ARG were even more lucky on Saturday when you consider that Palermo's goal was about 3 feet offside. And then Peru hit the cross-bar on the last kick of the match.

Actually at the time it happened the Palermo goal didn't seem too important because Ecuador and Uruguay were tied at 1-1. But considering Uruguay would score later (it was an obvious PK for those who didn't see it), the Palermo "goal" was absolutely crucial! Argentina seem to be in good shape now but the way things are going I wouldn't be shocked if there's another twist in the tale.

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Doyle, the point we are making can also apply to a lot of teams. Pretty much any teams who finsih in 3rd, 4th and 5th spot in a European qualifying group could qualify out of Oceania and would get a pretty good shot at beating Asia fifth team.

Because we are Canadian fans we are using Canada as an example because we think we could probably do the same. Do you really think we wouldn't be able to beat Vanuatu and the Fidji's?

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quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Yet the same part-time procedures can easily apply to many of our CONCACAF opponents and yet we struggle with them.

Like who??? Name them and be specific. The only teams comprised of part timers in CONCACAF are the minnows like Belize and St. Vincent & the Grenadines that we destroy with ease each time in the preliminary knock-out round. Jamaica? Honduras? Mexico? These teams are all fully professional and each have a number of players playing in the best leagues in the world. This is not the same as beating a team of islanders with full time jobs.

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quote:Originally posted by CanadianSoccerFan

Jamaica? Honduras? Mexico? These teams are all fully professional and each have a number of players playing in the best leagues in the world. This is not the same as beating a team of islanders with full time jobs.

Even Bahrain are not as good as the teams Canada need to beat just to get into the HEX.

Outside "the big 3" , AFC teams have had 0 wins, 2 draws and 10 losses in the last 3 world cups. 4 goals scored, 35 goals against. [B)

And Bahrain hasn't officially reached these "lofty" heights yet.

Even Jamaica beat AFC powerhouse Japan when they played at the World cup in France. To only have to beat AFC's 5th-best team to qualify for the world cup is an absolute dream and succeeding certainly doesn't mean you're any good.

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quote:Originally posted by wasup

Uruguay 2-1 over Argentina and Ecuador tie inChile . Argentina vs Honduras !!!

Are you serious?! I (and many on this board) would have penciled Argentina in amongst the top two at the beginning of WCQ. This is a very good match-up, with a very determined Honduras facing a team

coached by an incompetent. Hope it's on Gol or Setanta!

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quote:Originally posted by hectorj

Asia #5, CONCACAF #4, South America # 5 and Oceania #1 should play a round robin tourney at a neutral site for two spots. This would be much fairer. NZ could qualify playing such football titans like Fiji, Samoa, New Caledonia and Bahrain.

I think this is a great idea. It's ridiculous that New Zealand could qualify for the world cup without playing anyone in FIFA's top 100.

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Incredible, with FIFA for years that has been a problem . By far the toughest qualification is the CONMEBOL . Capello when coaching Roma said" That it is tougher to qualify in South America than any where else " Now add that the parity in South America is like never before . Before Venezuela would finish dead last and now anyone can beat anyone . Also there are countries in SOUTH AMERICA that Qualify in CONCACAF (Guyana,Suriname,French Guyana) This year regardless of the outcome you will have quality teams not in South Africa . Alot better than 30% of the teams that qualify for world Cups . (Europe : Czech,maybe Portugal ,Sweden,Turkey,Belgium, Croatia)

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quote:Originally posted by wasup

Incredible, with FIFA for years that has been a problem . By far the toughest qualification is the CONMEBOL . Capello when coaching Roma said" That it is tougher to qualify in South America than any where else " Now add that the parity in South America is like never before . Before Venezuela would finish dead last and now anyone can beat anyone . Also there are countries in SOUTH AMERICA that Qualify in CONCACAF (Guyana,Suriname,French Guyana) This year regardless of the outcome you will have quality teams not in South Africa . Alot better than 30% of the teams that qualify for world Cups . (Europe : Czech,maybe Portugal ,Sweden,Turkey,Belgium, Croatia)

Don't the phrases that I bolded contradict each other?

You can't really make generalizations like Capello allegedly did. In UEFA so much depends on luck of the draws. Bosnia are in a decent position to qualify despite not beating anyone in the FIFA top 60 but OTOH Maradona's Argentina would never have a chance to qualify if they were put into Portugal's group.

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By far it is the tougest , Yes I agree the fairest because of the fact that everyone plays everyone , but is it the tougest YES by FAR !!! Name one group tougher in Europe You might have one very tough group but you will always have BAD teams , easy three points (San Marino,Luxemburgh,Faroe Islands,Liecenstein,Malta and more ) In South America When you play Ecuador you play at noon and in 40 degree heat and 2500 feet altitude, Bolivia 3700 feet , Peru , Colombia Altitude add 50,000 crazy , passionate fans . Uruguay and Argentina and Paraguay anc Chile do not have any benefits as per weather or Altitude. It is as many european coaches along with Capello have said THE TOUGHEST !! The coaches in Europe hate sending their players !!

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I honestly don't have a big problem with allowing Oceana (ie. New Zealand) and chance to play the fifth spot in Asia. The World Cup is NOT the 32 best teams in the world. I don't know the technical definition, but I imagine it would be more like... "the best 32 teams in the world, giving each of the continential divisions a fair representation, allowing each country in the world to have a relatively even chance of making the cup, given their continent's number of members and rankings."

A long uneven sentance but you get the gist. Oceana obviously doesn't really belong there, but you have to allow them a half decent chance. It helps grow the game there and New Zealand aside, gives many small and poor countries a shot at making the grand stage. It's only fair. The 32 team qualification is by no means perfect but it's a difficult/near impossible situation with many tangibles. I realize like everyone here the Oceana's best is nowhere near anyone else's worst, but it called the World Cup, and we're taking about 0.5 of a spot.

Some food for thought, as tough a job as we have now at making the Cup, what chance would Canada have if the true top 32 teams made it each year?

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It should be 0.25 spot for Oceania and Asia here. The winner could play the looser of the CONCACAF vs CONMEBOL playoff (not sure CONCACAF deserves more chances) or the best second place in Africa.

The idea of a 4 teams tournament with NZ, Honduras/CR, CONMEBOL 5th and Barhain is also a pretty good idea. I've already suggested a similar tournament to what FIBA has (12 teams tournament I think) for the last qualification spots.

I find it too easy for NZ compare to the rest of the world.

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quote:Originally posted by CanadianSoccerFan

I agree that South America is the toughest. More importantly, it is the fairest.

I would go even further and say that if Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay would play their qualifying games in Europe and against European clubs, (considering that most of their players play in that continent) I'll bet they would be first or second in their groups hands down.

Not only Capello said that about the CONMEBOL qualifying process but even in Spain they talk about that all the time. CONMEBOL should have 5 direct spots plus a playoff spot against CONCACAF or UEFA.

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Guest Jeffery S.
quote:Originally posted by Eric

I would go even further and say that if Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay would play their qualifying games in Europe and against European clubs, (considering that most of their players play in that continent) I'll bet they would be first or second in their groups hands down.

Not only Capello said that about the CONMEBOL qualifying process but even in Spain they talk about that all the time. CONMEBOL should have 5 direct spots plus a playoff spot against CONCACAF or UEFA.

Eric, oh Eric. Never have I ever heard anyone in Spain talk about preferring the Comebol qualifying process over the European in 22 years here. Or even a comment about qualifying itself, since they assume that if they don't qualify, no matter what, it is obviously their fault.

Not that someone, sometime, could never have said it. But it is not a topic of discussion at all. Ever.

Why do you insist on just making little fables and fairy tales up as you go along to support lame arguments that you end up changing anyways after a day and a half?

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quote:Originally posted by wasup

By far it is the tougest , Yes I agree the fairest because of the fact that everyone plays everyone , but is it the tougest YES by FAR !!! Name one group tougher in Europe You might have one very tough group but you will always have BAD teams , easy three points (San Marino,Luxemburgh,Faroe Islands,Liecenstein,Malta and more ) In South America When you play Ecuador you play at noon and in 40 degree heat and 2500 feet altitude, Bolivia 3700 feet , Peru , Colombia Altitude add 50,000 crazy , passionate fans . Uruguay and Argentina and Paraguay anc Chile do not have any benefits as per weather or Altitude. It is as many european coaches along with Capello have said THE TOUGHEST !! The coaches in Europe hate sending their players !!

That makes C'BOL the most grueling by far. Not the toughest to qualify from. Yes, UEFA groups are weaker but only 1.45 teams qualify from each group compared to 45% in CONMEBOL (and, really its more like 49%).

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quote:Originally posted by loyola

It should be 0.25 spot for Oceania and Asia here. The winner could play the looser of the CONCACAF vs CONMEBOL playoff (not sure CONCACAF deserves more chances) or the best second place in Africa.

I agree about OFC getting 0.25, but think UEFA should gain the extra 0.5. CONMEBOL's #5 or CONCACAF #4 already had umpteen chances to qualify. Imagine if Argentina lost to Uruguay and Costa Rica. No way would they deserve yet another chance.

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quote:Originally posted by Soro17

Someone elsewhere suggested this - perhaps NZ should enter Asia qualifying at the final group stage rather than the playoff round? The OFC is a de facto region of Asia anyway under the current set-up.

I agree. It would also benefit the sport in NZ to have more than one meaningful home game every 4 years.

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