Guest Ed Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 I posted this in the Whitecaps - Austin Aztecs game thread but it may spark some discussion here. Thomas Niendorf was interviewed at Swangard during halftime at the game last night. "Very interesting interview with Thomas Niendorf at halftime. Off the top of my head he said that he was very pleased with the performance of the residency to date. They've put players on the first team and just signed Adam Straith to a pro contract in Germany. He said that the players learned they were on the same level as good clubs abroad from their exhibition tours to Germany and Japan. He said they have a new destination lined up (kept it to himself). He also said that it was a crucial part of the residency that players get national team experience at lower age levels. He said (WHICH SOMEWHAT SURPISED ME) that they worked closely with the CSA to get promising youngsters from outside the province into the residency. And he also said (MIGHT BE A SURPRISE TO EVERYONE) that they will no longer be getting players from Ontario as there is some kind of territorial deal with TFC." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 That's good that they aren't stealing players from TFC. Hopefully it doesn't allow TFC to get complacent though in youth development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Here's what I wrote in the other thread on this subject: I too don't like this. This kind of agreement is perfect for TFC to just sit and wait since they have such a big pool of players in Ontario. I'm not saying they'll do that but they should be able to attract the best players because of the quality of their youth program, not because they are in Ontario. That's not a good news IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 ^ I don't see the smiley? The Whitecaps residency is miles ahead of TFC's 'academy' so I don't see what is 'good' about the territorial thing. Let freedom reign. OOPS - posted just before Loyola's reply. The remark is to Bettermirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piltdownman Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 As I said in the other thread, I wonder if this could be seen as a restriction in the mobility of labour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I'd suspect it (territorial rights?) has more to do with out-of-province scouting and recruiting efforts, and any CSA assistance they may receive in this endeavor, than any scheme formally disqualifying either club from accepting youth players from the others "back yard". The Caps won't actively try to poach from Ontario if TFC doesn't actively try to poach from BC. That kind of thing. In effect that would give the local organization less competition for the local players and right-of-first-refusal for the players in their territory. Wouldn't mean a player from Toronto who TFC feel isn't fit for their academy can't find his way into the 'Caps academy, opinions differ sometimes, just means it will be down to the player concerned to initiate such a move. BC spies aren't lurking around looking for them. Whitecap evaluation camps aren't being held in Scarborough and so-on. But I'm speculating in this speculative topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Ed ^ I don't see the smiley? The Whitecaps residency is miles ahead of TFC's 'academy' so I don't see what is 'good' about the territorial thing. Let freedom reign. OOPS - posted just before Loyola's reply. The remark is to Bettermirror. Well, they said the CSA helped them locate talent, so I'm guessing they're helping TFC locate talent to. It's not too big a deal imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 quote:Originally posted by piltdownman As I said in the other thread, I wonder if this could be seen as a restriction in the mobility of labour? The Canadian Hockey League divides its leagues into territories, ie: if you're from a given province or state you have to play in a given league. So since we're talking comparable ages, I don't really see this as being a legal issue. cheers, matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piltdownman Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Fair point. There is a slight difference between being limited to a league and being limited to a single club. I still wonder about the legality if it was challenged. But then again what do we know other than a one line comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJones Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 quote:Originally posted by piltdownman Fair point. There is a slight difference between being limited to a league and being limited to a single club. I still wonder about the legality if it was challenged. But then again what do we know other than a one line comment? The problem I have with this, and with the pyramid that these clubs want to set up, is that if a player doesn't fit within the philosophy of the club or has a fall out with the coach/club, they can't get picked up by Toronto? What about Seattle? Is the same deal there? Limiting opportunity is not going to develop more talent. There is only so many that can fit into one youth program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.T. Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 The Whitecaps & TFC do not hold the monopoly on player development... this is gentlemens agreement between two clubs that will have zero impact on the overall player development landscape... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJones Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 quote:Originally posted by L.T. The Whitecaps & TFC do not hold the monopoly on player development... this is gentlemens agreement between two clubs that will have zero impact on the overall player development landscape... I would love that to be true but here in BC, the Whitecaps are now phasing in their player developmental model that will replace the provincial program. Kind of like all roads lead to Rome kind of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 ^ L.T. is refering to the academy system which has placed a number of elite players in Europe over the last few seasons. But yes, it's quite sad that the BCSA is relinquishing control of their Provincial all-star teams to the Whitecaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdroze Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Is that really so sad? Wouldn't we prefer to have competent organizations like the Whitecaps take the lead in player development rather than leaving it to the provincial organizations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.T. Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 It's sad that the BCSA has made the Whitecaps the de facto Academy in BC (to the point of actively blocking out the competition) - monopolies are not a good thing for player development... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 quote:Originally posted by rdroze Is that really so sad? Wouldn't we prefer to have competent organizations like the Whitecaps take the lead in player development rather than leaving it to the provincial organizations? Yes it is sad, you're consolidating the player selection process and giving ultimate authority to one organization. Yes they're a solid organization and have done a good job of player ID, but 2 sets of eyes is better than one. If that's how it's going to be then they should just nix the whole all-star team structure and use the money for somewhere else in the player development chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I suspect that BC Soccer's arrangement with the Whitecaps has more to do with the association offloading costs and identifying the program with the recognised Whitecaps brand than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 What would be the reaction if BC Soccer contracted out operation of the allstar program to say, the TSS academy in Richmond? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 quote:Originally posted by L.T. It's sad that the BCSA has made the Whitecaps the de facto Academy in BC (to the point of actively blocking out the competition) - monopolies are not a good thing for player development... Bingo....Why would Bjorn Osieck and his cohorts at BCSA be willing to put all their eggs in one basket. Why not assign multiple centers of excellence throughout the province? Set very high standards and let enterprising members of the province's soccer community try to work towards meeting them. The willingness to create a new monopoly to replace the old monopoly is illogical to me. I like the idea of decentralizing elite player development programming (I don't think our Provincial Associations have a really good track record for elite player development, in general) but this arrangement doesn't guarantee better player development. It does guaranteee that Whitecaps will have control over the "best" players in the province, which is obviously good for Whitecaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Richard What would be the reaction if BC Soccer contracted out operation of the allstar program to say, the TSS academy in Richmond? if TSS got an exclusive deal with the BCSA, I'd balk at that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I doubt very much that this arrangement is of Bjorn Osiek's doing. BC Soccer policy is set by the board, something as significant as the player development arrangement with the Whitecaps is surely a board level decision. BC Soccer can hardly afford to run/pay for one centre of excellence never mind several across the province. Would independent academies be willing to pick up the associated costs of several? You can be sure the Whitecaps are picking up a share of the costs which is what I suggested was probably the big attraction to this arrangement for BC Soccer. Whitecaps access to the player pool is the quid pro quo. I am not necessarily condoning the arrangement, just looking for the logic. Anyway, the abysmal performance of the men's team at the Canada Games I hope will have BC Soccer revisit the arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Richard, I understand where you are coming from and, of course, Bjorn would not be pulling the trigger on this on his own. I'm simply stating that, in my opinion, elite player development in British Columbia would be best served if BC Soccer (Bjorn, Technical Director, BoD) were to instead choose to set standards for "centers of excellence", establish territories where they will exist and then let potential operators say yes or no to stepping up to the plate and taking on the responsibility that goes with it. Whitecaps would no doubt be able to meet the standard but others might be able to do so as well and ought to have the opportunity to contribute. BTW, I don't see why it would cost BC Soccer all that much (far less than running the current program themselves). Heck, BC Soccer is charging Provincial program players thousands of dollars to be part of the program now. A center of excellence will do the same, won't it? Would BC Soccer be contributing to funding these programs? Also, I wouldn't necessarily judge the Whitecaps' ability to develop the best players in BC based on what their Canada Games team accomplished. Maybe the coach could have been better? Maybe this was a particularly poor batch of Whitecaps prospects. Whatever the reason for their performance , I sincerely doubt BC Soccer will go back on the decision to puts its eggs in the WFC basket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I could see the OSA doing something similar with TFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Macksam I could see the OSA doing something similar with TFC. the relationship between tfc and osa isn't the greatest. they do work together (the TFC-A squad is made up of osa all star players and osa calls up tfc academy players for things like canada games) but that relationship isnt exactly peaches and cream Squid2..if you are lurking, what do you hear about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aljarov Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 quote:Originally posted by L.T. The Whitecaps & TFC do not hold the monopoly on player development... this is gentlemens agreement between two clubs that will have zero impact on the overall player development landscape... Actually, MLS Academy guidelines have established territorial rights based on their market. It's probably a precursor to joining the league that they've agreed to play by the rules now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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