Retractable Roof will be cancelled due to deficit

[nolando]

I hate to say this, but I see this being a real dealbreaker for either the MLS or the Caps themselves, and maybe for both. There's not really any point going forward with MLS if we as city are going to put the team into such sub-par playing conditions. The Caps would be like so many of those early (and current, no?) MLS sides playing in enormous football bowls with no consideration for how far the spot and, indeed, the league has grown over recent years. I think if the Caps started weak in a poor venue then thy might not ever get off the ground properly. This is a very fickle city for sports fans. It's easy to think of the years of sellouts for decent Canucks teams at fancy GM place while ignoring the years of sub-par crowds watching sub par Canucks teams in a sub-par building. Even I, as a huge soccer supporter, won't be going to many Caps games if it's under that god forsaken teflon dome and with CFL lines obscuring my already distant view of the pitch. If you can even call whatever garbage they would inevitably lay down a pitch. Not gonna happen.

Start strong and right in a decent venue like TFC or Sounders have and the sky's literally the limit.

I predict that the plug has already been pulled. I pray, however, that this is only a postponement, and that there are much better thing to come.

[DoyleG]

The provincial budget is coming down next week so will see. Unfortunately, it seems that austerity is the word of the day.

[CoachRich]

Here's the direct link to the GlobalTV BC video "Exclusive:Roof Trouble"http://www.globaltvbc.com/video/index.html?releasePID=G5pLt574BlOH__pXFyjYVy_u2l0HFmxR

As much as I'd like to see BCP get a new roof there are 2 issues presently -

1. next weeks budget knowing that the BC Gov is cutting back & it's pretty hard to say roof it when health care & etc is being cutting back.

2. real estate market that in the downtown area that maybe over built & a high risk in this BC economy.

Flip side is it could put the pressure on the BC Gov & the City to push the Feds to push the VAP to deal with Kerfoot. There will be a huge need to have a major captial project on the go in BC that is not public funded & will creat jobs. The SSS would be ideal & might be the only deal in town after the Olympics past.

This might be the same case for the Caps planned NTC in Delta at Oliver Park. The BC Gov if they aren't going to fund it maybe Kerfoot will do it all. Again there's a need for more projects to create jobs that aren't tax payer funded.

[Vancouversoccerman]

Bob Lenarduzzi was on CKNW this morning. He said the 1 month tendering delay mentioned by the minister was old news, and that they have been given no indication that the project won't go ahead.

He also said a roof cancellation could force MLS to review Vancouver's franchise.

EDIT: CKNW will be discussing the issue at 11am PST this morning.

http://www.cknw.com

[Danny Boy]

Does intimacy[] in BC Place really depend on the roof? Wouldn't the interior configuration determine that effect? The interior renovations are going ahead and will be done by the Olympics. A roof shouldn't determine whether the Whitecaps deserve a franchise or not.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

quote:Originally posted by nolando

I hate to say this, but I see this being a real dealbreaker for either the MLS or the Caps themselves, and maybe for both....

Maybe worth bearing in mind that MLS were gung ho about putting a team into the Alamodome in San Antonio despite it be a dome type stadium with only a commitment of an eventual move to an SSS being needed to satisfy them.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/MYSA090404_15D_SOCMLSsanantonio_4a7abbe6_html1518.html

That expansion possibility has reemerged in recent weeks:-

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1142433

http://www.matchfitusa.com/2009/08/san-antonio-mls-rumors-surface.html

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2009/08/19/index.php?section=deportes&article=a14n3dep

[Mr.Impact]

Is land so expensive in Vancouver, that its a cheaper to spend $365 million to upgrade a roof, when that same $365 million can get you 7 SS stadiums (at +/- $50 million a stadium)?

[canadianfoot]

quote:Originally posted by Mr.Impact

Is land so expensive in Vancouver, that its a cheaper to spend $365 million to upgrade a roof, when that same $365 million can get you 7 SS stadiums (at +/- $50 million a stadium)?

Land is expensive to a certain point. But the Politicians(City up to Provincial) are dumb. Everyone is trying to be PC & "Green", basically whatever is trendy. If 10000 people went to the street tmrw and blocked dtwn Vancouver saying that they want a Waterfront Stadium. The Liberanos would be says YES we will make it happen quickly while the NDP would say we can do it Faster.

Jokes aside the City's politicians are jumping on the wagon that most people ride "at the moment".......just like anywhere else. We need some guys with gut to "force" it thru. Kind of hard to figure out if it's all up to the politicians or the VPA. I am just happy that Kerfoot hasen't said enough & kiss my bloddy A ss everyone

[spiral]

This is the critical part:

quote:

"Cancelling the roof project would help Finance Minister Colin Hansen maintain some fiscal credibility next week when he faces the embarrassing task of revealing the actual budget-deficit numbers."

In the final anysis, the Government has to do what's right for the entire Province, not just a soccer team.

In the overall sceheme of things, what the Caps want here may not be fiscally possible at this time:

September 1 (Budget Day) will be D Day so you better get a campaign and emails going, fast:

The B.C. government should look at the bigger picture before delaying or cancelling the B.C. Place roof refit, says the business agent for ironworkers who hope to build the $365-million retractable roof.

Tom O’Neill said the roof enabled the Vancouver Whitecaps to land a lucrative Major League Soccer (MLS) franchise that will pour millions of dollars into the economy, and workers hired to build the roof will provide plenty of income tax to pay for social programs.

“It will be a huge economic advantage, if they get the MLS,” said O’Neill, business agent for Ironworkers Local 712, which hopes to provide the work force to build the state-of-the-art retractable roof. “It would be a shame.

“Government has to weigh the advantages.

“It will put 150 people to work for two years, and they all pay income taxes that will help pay for government programs.”

The B.C. Place roof collapsed in 2007, and Tourism Minister Kevin Krueger told The Province that regardless of budgetary issues it must be replaced.

“B.C. Place has to have a new roof — it’s a very valuable asset and it’s the only location that can handle that size of crowd,” said Krueger, who estimated a comparable new stadium would cost more than $1 billion.

“We have a business plan that’s been submitted by B.C. Pavilion Corp.

“The cost exceeds what was initially anticipated.

“There’s a lot to it.”

The costly decision comes as the B.C. government is facing huge budget pressures and attacks on its financial credibility.

Premier Gordon Campbell insisted during the May provincial election that the budget deficit wouldn’t exceed $495 million, but just months later he now faces a multibillion-dollar deficit. Cancelling the roof project would help Finance Minister Colin Hansen maintain some fiscal credibility next week when he faces the embarrassing task of revealing the actual budget-deficit numbers.

Krueger said the B.C. Place roof decision will be coming soon, but wouldn’t say whether the public will find out Sept. 1 when Hansen unveils his revised budget.

“We’ve got a process, and we’re working through it,” said Krueger. “It won’t be long until we make our decision.”

[spiral]

Where's Don Garber in all of this? Shouldn't MLS Head Office spout off about this?

A MLS bid is hanging in the balance. Surely Don's comments could help now

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Maybe it isn't hanging in the balance? MLS were quite happy with the concept of playing in a domed stadium in San Antonio.

[sj]

Spiral was right after all.

[spiral]

from this morning's Sun:

Specially note these comments from the MLS:

"All of the renovations to BC Place were key in Major League Soccer awarding Vancouver an expansion team," MLS senior vice-president Dan Courtemanche said from the league's New York headquarters.

"If things change, we'd have to address that. Clearly it's something that would be addressed by our commissioner and the league's board of governors," Courtemanche said.

He said the league has never withdrawn a franchise once granted, and there's no clear policy for such an event.

end of quote.

I'd say that's a ominous sign that the Roof will have to be Retractable or all hell will break loose:

VICTORIA — Plans for a new retractable roof on BC Place Stadium were placed under a cloud of uncertainty Wednesday as Tourism Minister Kevin Krueger refused to confirm the project will proceed as promised.

"It's a complicated world we're in right now. It's a very expensive project — a very large project — and we're in very challenging economic times," Krueger told reporters.

"The business plan is being analysed by Treasury Board, and that isn't complete yet, but I expect to have more definitive answers for you within the next few days," he said.

His comments sent shock waves throughout the political and sporting worlds.

New Democratic Party leader Carole James said she believes the government is getting ready to scrap the project, a decision that could threaten the status of the Major League Soccer franchise recently granted to the Vancouver Whitecaps FC.

"All of the renovations to BC Place were key in Major League Soccer awarding Vancouver an expansion team," MLS senior vice-president Dan Courtemanche said from the league's New York headquarters.

"If things change, we'd have to address that. Clearly it's something that would be addressed by our commissioner and the league's board of governors," Courtemanche said.

He said the league has never withdrawn a franchise once granted, and there's no clear policy for such an event.

The estimated $365-million stadium upgrades, which include the new roof, are supposed to be complete by the spring of 2011, when the Whitecaps are to begin playing in the MLS.

When asked if a new stadium would still proceed and be ready on time, Krueger said only: "I think so."

When asked if that includes a retractable roof, Krueger responded: "The existing roof could be replaced. The retractable roof is certainly preferred by a lot of the people who are engaged in this whole process."

Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi said he had heard no official word that the project is in jeopardy, and that he remained optimistic it will go ahead as planned.

"I'm feeling very confident that at some point we'll get an official announcement that the process is moving forward," he said.

"I would be absolutely shocked if it were any different than that."

Earlier this week, PavCo, the provincial Crown corporation that operates the stadium, said the bidding process for the project had been delayed because of the complexity of the bids.

Warren Buckley, PavCo CEO, added, however, that the delay "has nothing to do with the project and its viability" and that all the funding appeared to be on track.

"I think we're in good shape," Buckley said, adding that workers have already begun pouring cement for a ring beam that will hold the new roof in place.

"We're moving on."

PavCo has said it hopes to recover more than $100 million through the sale and lease of land next to the stadium, which could accommodate a total of 1.4 million square feet of residential and commercial space. It was not clear what effect the recession has had on the viability of that plan.

Government revenues have plummeted recently, and Tuesday's throne speech warned of a need for serious fiscal restraint in almost all areas of government spending.

jfowlie@vancouversun.com

bconstantineau@vancouversun.com

[spiral]

Keep in mind that Pavco doesn't have the final say as to whether that Retractable will go ahead.

The provincial cabinet has full control over authorization of addditional spending, not Pavco.

Pavilion Corporation as a crown corporation is charged with operating BC Place; the ultimate owner is the provincial government.

If cabinet pulls funding Tuedsay in the budget, Pavco is in no position of power to countermand that.

Pavco as an entity has no additional funding through their own sources to subsidize a project of such magnitude.

Cabinet gives Pavco a budget to work within every year for operating expenses for both BC Place and the Convention Center. Any monies necessary over the allowed budgeted amount have to be authorized through the Ministry (Colin Hansen and Kevin Krueger).

In other words, it's the Premier, Finance Minister Colin Hansen and Tourism Minister Kevin Krueger that have the Hammer here, not Warren Buckley of Pavco.

Pavco is just a mouthpiece here.

It is true that Pavco has authorization to sell lands around the Stadium to recoup sopme of the cost of this project, but even if they can garner $ 100 million from the sale of those parking lots (I'd say it may garner $ 50 million to $ 70 million tops in this economy), we've still got $ 265 million to go to get to the $ 365 million total, and we all know where that extra $ 265 million has got to come from.

Your wallet.

I'd suggest we get our butts in gear and get a huge rally going at the Legislature in Victoria for Budget Day Tuesday.

The clock is ticking and I'm afraid Tuesday may be D Day for MLS here.

[mike_desare]

quote:Originally posted by spiral

from this morning's Sun:

Specially note these comments from the MLS:

"All of the renovations to BC Place were key in Major League Soccer awarding Vancouver an expansion team," MLS senior vice-president Dan Courtemanche said from the league's New York headquarters.

"If things change, we'd have to address that. Clearly it's something that would be addressed by our commissioner and the league's board of governors," Courtemanche said.

The bolded part says everything from MLS. Not looking good.

[Macksam]

I don't get it. If history has taught us anything, it is that the government should build things when in a recession. I'm pretty sure that's what that silly British economist Keynes said during the great depression. Build schools, roads, light houses, churuches, etc. Stadiums I guess would fit the bill nicely to. Cancelling the roof project will make us go backwards in this credit crisis.

[spiral]

This article places more doubt on it. Says it's in "limbo" and under review.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/bc-place-retractable-roof-plans-in-limbo/article1266316/

It says the Minister should know this week. An announcement Friday?

Surely we will know by Friday as the Budget comes Tuesday and the wording of the Budget will have to be finalized any day now.

I would suggest there will be a closed door meeting with Pavco, the Whitecaps and BC Lions Friday afternoon

[Johnnie Monster]

And who sits on the board of governors?

Vancouver, Portland, Seattle, Toronto... all guaranteed to vote in favour of keeping Vancouver given the cash generated from potential rivalries.

And what markets are set to generate the most money for MLS?

Vancouver, Portland, Seattle, Toronto... and LA.

All the other owners in this league are drooling over the amount of $$$ these markets will pump into the league on an annual basis. You really think Kansas City and Colorado are in any position to talk about what's "good" for the league? They're bleeding cash out of every orifice, and Vancouver is a very attractive solution to their woes.

As Krammerhead said on another board, the roof is ultimately irrelevant. They play on the field inside, not on the dome above it. If the sightlines are improved, that's all that matters.

[spiral]

Then why not give the franchise spot to Montreal?

Why is St. Louis so inferior?

If Montreal and St. Louis can get their ducks in line and Vancouver can't, yes I can see Vancouver's spot being given to Montreal or St. Louis if they can get their ducks in line...

And when the Roof does get cancelled in Tuesday's budget, you will see panic.

So Bill, you're suggesting they will cancel the Roof but go ahead with the other renos.

Possible. The Roof portion was $ 150 to $ 200 million or thereabouts.

Of course the choice of turf may depend on indoor / outdoor conditions. Some turf may not be suitable for a strictly indoor environment.

And the Caps WILL NOT share the same field with the Lions. That will not happen.

I just think it's all or nothing. Do the reno completely or don't do anything, don't just do something half-ass.

Saputo is salivating

[spiral]

Johnnie Monster, you say the Roof is "Ultimately Irrelevant"?

Crapp!

Anything costing $ 365 million is Ultimately Irrelevant?

Come on man!

Listen to Lenarduzzi's comments here from 1040 below.

He says the Retractable Roof is an integral and critical part of the Caps MLS bid and if the Roof is cancelled, in his words, "we've got serious problems".

Serious problems.

If you don't mind, I choose to take Lenarduzzi at his word:

http://www.team1040.ca/contentfiles2/Bob%20Lenarduzzi%20with%20Pratt%20and%20Giulio.mp3

[Danny Boy]

quote:Originally posted by Johnnie Monster

As Krammerhead said on another board, the roof is ultimately irrelevant. They play on the field inside, not on the dome above it. If the sightlines are improved, that's all that matters.

I guess no one bothered to read my earlier post

[snake]

do to this change in development plans regarding the roof.

1.mayor gregor robertson and the bc libs are fast tracking the false creek site.

2.the greg kerfoot casino on the waterfront is alive once again.

3.have patience an official announcement will be made soon.

[Danny Boy]

quote:Originally posted by snake

do to this change in development plans regarding the roof.

1.mayor gregor robertson and the bc libs are fast tracking the false creek site.

2.the greg kerfoot casino on the waterfront is alive once again.

3.have patience an official announcement will be made soon.

Casino??? I've never heard this part before...

[Danny Boy]

quote:Originally posted by snake

do to this change in development plans regarding the roof.

1.mayor gregor robertson and the bc libs are fast tracking the false creek site.

2.the greg kerfoot casino on the waterfront is alive once again.

3.have patience an official announcement will be made soon.

Casino??? I've never heard this part before...

[snake]

the good thing about a recession is the need for jobs from the private sector.

kerfoots casino plan would include about 800 full time jobs

a new stadium would include about 600 construction jobs

fast tracking these projects right now during this recession is a no brainer for the politico's in this province.