Raven Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Found this on the Impact supporters site According to RDS http://www.radio-canada.ca/sports/soccer/2009/08/12/004-usl-mercredi.shtml Google Translate <<More than ever the future of the USL is unclear ... The league hosts the Montreal Impact is for sale for over a month. The senior manager of the USL, Chris Economides, has admitted Wednesday to CBC Sports. Impact President Joey Saputo has confirmed a few moments later. Nike owns 98% of the USL, then, is solely responsible for the sale. This new situation could therefore find its denouement in the war of sporting equipment. Adidas is the exclusive supplier of MLS, and an offer to buy the German company could facilitate the establishment of a reserve division in this league. Recall that abolished the MLS reserve division this year. Of course, at this stage of the process, it is purely speculation. Questioned about the mass exodus of teams from the USL to MLS, he remained ice. He watched without flinching from Seattle, it will do the same for Portland, Vancouver and Montreal probably. "I'm not worried that the league will sell. It was enough people who want to enter in to repopulate the USL league. " He has also shown little chatty on the absence of franchises in western North America (there will be no franchise in western Minnesota after 2011). According to him, investors from the west are many and there is no risk that the USL becomes a regional entity.>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 A good editorial with comments here, along with a (somewhat) tidier translation: More than ever the future of the USL is unclear ... The league which hosts the Montreal Impact has been for sale for over a month. The senior manager of the USL, Chris Economides, has admitted Wednesday to CBC Sports. Impact President Joey Saputo has confirmed this report few moments later. Nike who owns 98% of the USL, then, is solely responsible for the sale. This new situation could therefore find its denouement in the war of sporting equipment. Adidas is the exclusive supplier of MLS, and an offer to buy the German company could facilitate the establishment of a reserve division in this league. Recall that MLS abolished the reserve division this year. Of course, at this stage of the process, it is purely speculation. Questioned about the mass exodus of teams from the USL to MLS, he remained cold. He watched without flinching from Seattle, that it will be the same the same for Portland, Vancouver and Montreal probably. "I'm not worried that the league will sell. There enough people who want to enter in to repopulate the USL league. " He has also quiet on the absence of franchises in western North America (there will be no franchise in western Minnesota after 2011). According to him, investors from the west are many and there is no risk that the USL becomes a regional entity. (with the collaboration of Philippe Germain) http://www.mls-rumors.net/2009/08/question-should-mls-buy-usl.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoccerfanatiQ Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 That's why garber was not really in hurry to accept Montreal in the MlS league, since he already knew that saputo was stuck if he staid in USL. It's brilliant if MLS buys out USL with the money of their own franchises, hope that USL might turn out to be a real North American 2nd devision after MLS took all the good marcket teams out of USL. Still wondering who will number 20 ? And if all USL team will accept to be MLS 2nd div ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 If an MLS 2nd division can take over for where USL-1 fits in, then there wouldn't really be a loss. If it remains affordable to start a franchise in a 2nd division, then it's fine, but I'd like to know how they'd work a relationship between the 1st division and 2nd division (ie. team advancement/relegation, etc...). What would happen to the PDL, USL-2, Super-Y, and all other leagues under the USL umbrella? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Definitely would be good to see a AAA minor league emerge for MLS. Having Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal in MLS and for the sake of argument Victoria, London and Trois-Rivieres as associated fully pro minor league teams would fill the huge gap in the development system between the youth academies and the MLS first team without players having to go through an NCAA scholarship and would probably start to help out the CMNT in a big way about 5 to 10 years down the road. Any country that is serious about success in soccer needs to have a strong domestic pro setup. Relying on players going overseas at a young age as the core of the development process doesn't cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard Definitely would be good to see a AAA minor league emerge for MLS. Having Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal in MLS and for the sake of argument Victoria, London and Trois-Rivieres as associated fully pro minor league teams would fill the huge gap in the development system between the youth academies and the MLS first team without players having to go through an NCAA scholarship and would probably start to help out the CMNT in a big way about 5 to 10 years down the road. Any country that is serious about success in soccer needs to have a strong domestic pro setup. Relying on players going overseas at a young age as the core of the development process doesn't cut it. I agree to a certain extent. Professional soccer in NA needs work underneath the MLS. Having a strong 10 to 20 side USL-1 league is important second tier requirement. Below that you have the NCAA/PDL route which I think is good for development as it effectively is a strong U-23 league that fills the gap between the academies and MLS/USL-1. However, I think developing the Canadian equivalent is very important where players have the option of staying in Canada and playing competitive university soccer makes sense. This can then be combined with either CSL or PDL in the summer. The real gap in my mind is players that don't go to university.....they have limited options during the year with really only CSL or PDL in the summer months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 For PDL To be considered a seriously positive developmental league it needs to expand it's season though...3 months is simply far too short. USL should be happy to go into MLS reserve....however, MLS would HAVE to raise it's salary cap. Basically you can't have players on your MLS roster make $12,000 while players on the reserve roster are far above that. Would be a very interesting transition. Quality of MLS would increase exponentially as the top USL players would basically move up and be snatched through a new draft....I'd figure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 ^ MLS minimum salaries are $20,000 as of this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercanuck Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I can't even begin to imagine how this would work. The MLS (single -entity) buying approx 12 USL-1 franchises from individual owners? or just the League and hoping all the franchises don't jump ship? Would MLS teams try to claim territory rights for the USL-1 teams closest to them (ie Austin being tucked between Dallas and Houston)? Would the current USL-1 teams remain independent while MLS adds the reserve teams? Sounds like a mess to me. Still, I can't take my eyes off of it, it will be every interesting to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveBeau Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Rudi ^ MLS minimum salaries are $20,000 as of this year. Let the good times roll.....[8D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piltdownman Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 $20k a week? .... oh wait a year. Still less than your average 7-11 clerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 quote:Originally posted by piltdownman $20k a week? .... oh wait a year. Still less than your average 7-11 clerk. Very true. To be clear, I'm talking about developmental contracts, not senior roster minimum. The senior roster minimum is $35,000. I believe only one player on TFC is making the dev minimum, and that's the Gambian kid Emmanuel Gomez. His compatriot Amadou Sanyang is making $40,000, but that's pro-rated over the entire year, and since he was ineligible to play until August 1, he's likely actually making the same as Gomez for 2009. I always read that the best players in USL, who would be mid-level guys in MLS, make more than they would if they played in MLS. I'm curious if there are actual numbers to back that claim up. A player like Kevin Harmse, who wouldn't be among the best players on a USL team, can pull in $80k while riding the bench. Are there any examples of Harmse-level players in USL making that kind of money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Rudi ^ MLS minimum salaries are $20,000 as of this year. A step in the right direction...maybe still less than the average 7-11 Clerk as stated, but getting closer to a living wage. And the upside for the average 7-11 Clerk is not all that high :-). On the minimum wage, all it has to be is high enough that a development player can live on his own with room, board, transporation, clothing and incidentals covered. I don't know if $20K will do that in Toronto or most of the MLS cities - It is minimum wage in Saskatchewan and I am sure we are cheaper than TO - but it is a lot closer than $12K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtl-supporter23 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Well I have some money saved up any other V's care to chip in ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allison A Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 One thing to keep in mind when comparing salaries between MLS and USL, is that USL players are usually only contracted for six months, and can go play indoor for the other six months if they choose, while MLS players do not have that option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Gordon A step in the right direction...maybe still less than the average 7-11 Clerk as stated, but getting closer to a living wage. And the upside for the average 7-11 Clerk is not all that high :-). On the minimum wage, all it has to be is high enough that a development player can live on his own with room, board, transporation, clothing and incidentals covered. I don't know if $20K will do that in Toronto or most of the MLS cities - It is minimum wage in Saskatchewan and I am sure we are cheaper than TO - but it is a lot closer than $12K. The market for players is international, the minimum salary as presented in MLS be it the developmental or regular ... is pegged as to be high enough to pay a North American to play at entry level i.e. up to age 21 or so .. any U.S. or Canadian born player with no upside in MLS or internationally will try to catch on in USL for a salary closer to a entry level job after university. Any journeyman player i.e. a guy at 25 or 26 who is North American and went to university ... wont stick around in MLS sweat shops at under fifty to sixty thousand per year. Unless MLS lets its players have a second non-soccer career development job .. i.e. sales rep or such... where is the upside to making a living as a soccer player ? MLS has a fundamental problem, it wants and needs local players to help market the game, your average born in U.S. or Canada player goes to college or university and wants to make a middle class wage for thirty to thiry five years and have a pension. Once you balance talent versus wage packet.. its pretty clear our locally developed players need a bigger upside ..so they go to Europe for bigger wages... those who cant make the jump are replaceable by cheaper talented imports ... see Gambian players etc. That reality plus the reserving of player positions by nationality will not let MLS have a depth of players to make the game better. So MLS is only going to be entertaining if it has Managers with style and skills... and they are not paying enough to get those. Thus MLS clubs need to market to moms and familys who will love the local players .. and not critique the quality of play, or have rabid lager louts... drinking the team Kool Aid... ala TFC and Seattle. The only long term solution is to open up roster spots with no rules about player origin, and to change the fan mix to those who want to watch a higher level of attractive attacking football equal to what is available on the various sport tv channels. Think of it .. what happens to TFC in ten years when the core of fan groups get a bit older and drop attendance... will there be young lager louts to fill in ? Or will the stadium be half full of late arrivers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Rudi Very true. To be clear, I'm talking about developmental contracts, not senior roster minimum. The senior roster minimum is $35,000. I believe only one player on TFC is making the dev minimum, and that's the Gambian kid Emmanuel Gomez. His compatriot Amadou Sanyang is making $40,000, but that's pro-rated over the entire year, and since he was ineligible to play until August 1, he's likely actually making the same as Gomez for 2009. I always read that the best players in USL, who would be mid-level guys in MLS, make more than they would if they played in MLS. I'm curious if there are actual numbers to back that claim up. A player like Kevin Harmse, who wouldn't be among the best players on a USL team, can pull in $80k while riding the bench. Are there any examples of Harmse-level players in USL making that kind of money? The senior player minimum seems to be $34000 as there are a large number of senior players making this amount although New England does have one player listed as a senior making $20100. TFC only has 4 players that are poorly paid, Gomez, Sanyang, Gala and Attakora-Gyan. However, a number of teams have significantly more poorly paid players. New England has 10 of its 22 players making under $40000. USL teams don't have to release their salaries so it is hard to judge what they are. I do know Ribeiro was making $36000 with the Impact and signed with San Jose for $42000. I think Ribeiro was one of our poorest paid players since he was pretty much penciled in as a permanent substitute by our De Santis who seems to decide such things on factors other than ability. I think the salaries range from mid $30000 for bench players to $100 000 for top players in USL or at least for the 8 competitive teams in the USL this year. The majority of starters are probably making between $50000 and $70000 which is still better than many of them would earn in MLS because the salary cap does not allow teams to pay players what they are worth. However, I could imagine that Austin, Cleveland and Minnesota are not paying that highly considering how uncompetitive they are. From what I have seen of Harmse though $80000 seems overpaid regardless of which league he would be in. It was interesting that a member of the Revolution supporters group was in the kop for the last Impact game and he certainly had different views on MLS versus USL than many of the TFC fanboys here. Regardless, I think it is clear that MLS needs to raise its salary cap and use that money to raise the salaries of the lower starters and bench players. Until they do so the level of the league will suffer greatly and the better USL teams will continue to beat MLS teams on a regular basis. It is also interesting to look at the views of Kartik Krishnaiyer who writes for majorleaguesoccertalk.com. On a comment section of Soccer by Ives he wrote the following: quote:Enough with MLS excuses already! Is MLS better than USL: of course it is. But I have maintained for years that the A-League now USL-1 is better than the average second division compared to it's top division because of the MLS salary cap. What the Islanders, Impact etc get are alot of solid squad type players that get squeezed by MLS clubs. To simply assume the 18 now 20 senior roster players are the best 20 eligible for an MLS team is foolish. USL gets a lot of the mid salary guys: 7 to 12 on the rosters. 35k to 60k guys who add up under the cap. I've thought for years because of this some of the USL teams have actually been better as teams than MLS sides. They lack the flair and individual star power but I thought if you throw them into a legitimate international competition they may do better than MLS since MLS teams have to rely on so many developmental guys and 18k salary players when injuries hit. Well, we have our answer now. You can say PR was lucky and yes they were in a weak group, but they absolutely played the toughest team in the qualifying round so they almost earned their way into an easier group. But beating Marathon on the road is an accomplishment of epic proportions. MLS' yes men may want to minimize making the usual excuses, but no excuses can be applied here. It was an impressive statement by Colin Clarke's team. Posted by: Kartik | March 05, 2009 at 10:29 AM He further talks about some of these issues in his article here: http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/does-usl-1-need-a-salary-cap/3205 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly It was interesting that a member of the Revolution supporters group was in the kop for the last Impact game and he certainly had different views on MLS versus USL than many of the TFC fanboys here. Grizz, a TFC fanboy would not have watched USL previous to TFC coming to town. Much like an Impact/USL fanboy, whose only live exposure to MLS would be the games against a bad TFC side who still managed to never lose to Montreal. Both of those extremes should be discounted, in my opinion. I watched both leagues extensively for years before TFC's existence, and obviously had much more in-person experience watching USL, and even back then I thought MLS was a clear step up. When I finally got to see the MLS teams in person, my judgements were confirmed. I suspect that when Montreal finally gets to MLS and you see the league week in and week out, you'll change your tune. As for the Revs fan, what you must realize is that his experiences with USL-1 are very likely limited to US Open Cup play, where the lower division teams are highly motivated and treat the games against MLS competition as their cup final, whereas the MLS squads throw out reserves up until the semifinal round (where the only teams left are generally MLS sides). I believe you need to see both leagues week in and week out before making true judgements. One-off games are less indicative than the weekly grind, IMO. Anyway, I'm a bit tired of the MLS vs USL debate, and my question was a genuine one about salaries. Regardless, both leagues will be undergoing major changes in the short term, to the point where USL--1 may no longer even exist, so the debate really is pointless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Rudi As for the Revs fan, what you must realize is that his experiences with USL-1 are very likely limited to US Open Cup play, where the lower division teams are highly motivated and treat the games against MLS competition as their cup final, whereas the MLS squads throw out reserves up until the semifinal round (where the only teams left are generally MLS sides). I've heard this argument another of times, and it may be part of the reason. But there are enough examples of MLS teams losing with at least a B+ lineup. I posted this a month ago in another thread: quote: MLS sides also lost to two USL-2 teams. I don't know MLS rosters well enough to judge the strengh of sides, but the lineup fielded by Chicago in their loss to Wilmington contains at least 4 or 5 names that I recognized from a match against TFC earlier this year. CHICAGO FIRE: GK-Andrew Dykstra, D-Brandon Prideaux (Tim Ward 29), D-Bakary Soumare, D-Daniel Woolard, D-Austin Washington (Marco Pappa 68), M-Mike Banner, M-Baggio Husidic, M-Peter Lowry (Chris Rolfe 76), M-Justin Mapp, F-Patrick Nyarko, F-Stefan Dimitrov. Ward, Soumare, Pappa, Nyarko, Rolfe, Mapp and Prideaux and Woolard are all among the top 15 minute-getters for the Fire this season. This may be an anomaly, but I imagine some of the other losing MLS sides fielded comparable lineups in terms of starters vs reserves. As another example, 9 of the starters for Chivas USA in their 3-1 loss to Charleston are among the top 15 in minutes for that team. These are the only examples I have investigated so far. I only looked at 2 examples, so I suppose they could be aberrations. On the other hand, that both of the MLS squads that I selected randomly were reasonably close to full strength suggests that the whole 'reserve squad' idea needs some rethinking. In fact, most MLS squads aren't deep enough to field anything resembling the traditional understanding of a 'reserve squad'. I've done a lot of investigation into MLS vs USL-1 results over the past few years, and what it suggests is a gap in quality between MLS and USL-1 that is clear, but narrower than that which one would see between a first and second tier league in most countries. Without pro/rel, and a salary advantage which is less than what one might expect, this is almost bound to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 ^ The gap is less than, say, 5 years ago no doubt. That probably has to do with the growth of the sport outpacing the growth of MLS. I honestly think that gap is going to get a whole lot bigger in the next 2-3 years, as the new CBA potentially ups the salary cap and the best USL teams bolt for MLS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFCRegina Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Rumour mill says Traffic Sports has put together a bid and is the leading contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 quote:Originally posted by TFCRegina Rumour mill says Traffic Sports has put together a bid and is the leading contender. Traffic Sports? Isn't that the group that almost bailed on Miami? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Impact Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 If this true, then Traffic Sports will be adding the Bush part to the League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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