superbrad Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 This article indicates that hockey's grip on Canada is waning - among other sports. I would like to know the results for soccer. If anyone has this info. please post it here. In a nation long ruled by hockey, it's the equivalent of high treason. According to one of the country's top sociologists, interest in the National Hockey League has been declining over the past two decades, with the game's largest proportion of fan losses occurring among teenagers. The University of Lethbridge's Reginald Bibby says his findings debunk the myth of "hockey-mad" Canadians, and call into question the game's endurance as our national winter sport. Between 1990 and 2005, the percentage of adults who "very" or "fairly" closely follow the NHL dropped to 30 per cent from 36 per cent. Among teens, fandom over the same 1992 to 2008 period — fell fully 10 points, to 35 per cent from 45 per cent. Bibby, whose findings are published in the new book The Emerging Millennials, says the hit hockey has taken in spite of its cultural enshrinement makes a strong case that immigration patterns, as well as the explosion of entertainment options, are reprogramming our national DNA. "We can no longer take it for granted that growing up in Canada means you're going to be in love with hockey, or with the NHL specifically," says Bibby, whose findings draw on a nationally representative sample of more than 5,500 teens. The results are accurate within three percentage points, 19 times out of 20. "The NHL, like every other sport, is going to have to work harder to retain and expand its market share." Although an impressive one million Canadians tuned in to some part of the recent NHL draft, Bibby counters that this only represents about three per cent of the so-called "hockey-mad" population. Viewership of this year's Stanley Cup finals hovered between 1.6 and 1.9 million for the first five games, reached 2.6 million in Game 6, then peaked at 3.5 million for Game 7 — a healthy draw, but nonetheless, a fraction of the population. Previously, Stanley Cup games have garnered as many as 4.96 million viewers, as was the case in the 1994 faceoff between Vancouver and New York, and the 4.79 million Canadians who tuned into the Calgary-Montreal final 20 years ago. Bibby explains that the "death of the monoculture" has led to a splintering of individual interests, with more consumer choices leading to fewer pastimes that are truly embraced on a national level. While hockey may still be the country's favourite, compared to other sports, he notes that the sheer number of choices reduces the actual numbers of avid followers. Think of comparing I Love Lucy to CSI. Both top-rated shows, but the former — with far less competition — drew audiences as large as 44 million while the latter, in a landscape with hundreds of channels, draws about half that. "It's one of the few Canadian myths we have, this alleged (nationwide) love of hockey," says Bibby. "So, these results will annoy some people, and initially we'll see some questioning of reality." Earl Zukerman, an officer with the Society for International Hockey Research, is among the skeptics. Noting that the NHL's following "ebbs and flows," he suggests a more nuanced portrait of the game would account for such factors as the number of registered youths playing the sport, game tickets sold, equipment purchased, and website traffic. "It is my humble opinion that hockey is alive and still vibrant in Canada," says Zukerman, a hockey historian at Montreal's McGill University. "If Canada is on the verge of winning an Olympic gold medal in hockey next February, the whole country will be watching and holding their breath." Bibby's research, implies youths wouldn't figure prominently in such a scenario — especially those with foreign roots. In 2008, four in 10 Canadian teens with Canadian-born parents followed pro hockey either "very" or fairly" closely. Among those born here but whose parents (one or both) were born elsewhere, the proportion dropped to one-third. For teens born outside Canada, interest bottomed out at one in five. In Toronto, supposedly the home of the looniest of the hockey-loony, youth support for pro hockey was conspicuously lower than in any of Canada's six NHL cities: 20 per cent of teens, compared to 34 per cent in Edmonton, 41 per cent in Ottawa-Gatineau, 44 per cent in Vancouver, 45 per cent in Montreal and 48 per cent in Calgary. Bibby suggests this stems from a combination of the Maple Leafs' poor performance, game inaccessibility, and higher immigration rates. (In 2006, fully 52.3 per cent of Canadian immigrants lived in Ontario, led by Toronto). Burnaby, B.C.'s Nick Noorani, publisher of The Canadian Immigrant magazine, believes it takes 10 to 15 years for the game to become ingrained for newcomers. He remarks that his then-teenage children were "cricket-loving kids" when they arrived here from Dubai 11 years ago, but today, sit by his side during Hockey Night in Canada. "Hockey is part of becoming Canadian and understanding the social culture of the country," says Noorani, pointing to the success of the CBC's Punjabi broadcasts of HNIC. "But I believe for immigrants, garage sales have been our national sport for some time." It's not just hockey that's apparently suffering, with Bibby's findings demonstrating that professional sports of every stripe are bleeding young supporters. In the early 90s, 33 per cent of teens followed Major League Baseball compared to just 10 per cent today; youth interest in the National Basketball Association is lower now (21 per cent) than before the league expanded into Canada (27 per cent); and football has seen teen fan decreases in both the American and Canadian leagues — a drop to 19 per cent from 26 per cent for the NFL, and to 14 per cent from 22 per cent for the CFL. mharris@canwest.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I think the simple answer is that hockey is too expensive, and the immigrant population is growing so vastly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 ^ Not so. My sons demographics are pretty mainstream and very few of his friends (13 yrs old) follow hockey. Mind you, they don't follow much soccer either. Now if there was a National XBOX League, they would be all over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 ^ Not so. My sons demographics are pretty mainstream and very few of his friends (13 yrs old) follow hockey. Mind you, they don't follow much soccer either. Now if there was a National XBOX League, they would be all over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 quote:Originally posted by bettermirror I think the simple answer is that hockey is too expensive, and the immigrant population is growing so vastly. It has less to do with the immigrant population, and more to do with the inaccessibility with the game itself in Toronto. I've seen plenty of kids from immigrant parents follow the sport religiously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dare431 Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 It would be interesting to see the results for soccer and compare them to hockey. From my experience I stopped watching hockey after the lockout. And I really didn't start to closely follow soccer until world cup 2006. One door closed, another one opened I suppose? Mind you I used to be a leafs fan and that corporation is making wayyyy too much money so they never have to invest in the team therefore no playoffs etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Dare431 It would be interesting to see the results for soccer and compare them to hockey. From my experience I stopped watching hockey after the lockout. And I really didn't start to closely follow soccer until world cup 2006. One door closed, another one opened I suppose? Mind you I used to be a leafs fan and that corporation is making wayyyy too much money so they never have to invest in the team therefore no playoffs etc etc. That's unfortunate. Post-lockout NHL has been much better than pre-lockout. The 2009 playoffs were the best since 1994. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaub Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Ed ^ Not so. My sons demographics are pretty mainstream and very few of his friends (13 yrs old) follow hockey. Mind you, they don't follow much soccer either. Now if there was a National XBOX League, they would be all over that. http://www.mlgpro.com/ xfd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Dare431 It would be interesting to see the results for soccer and compare them to hockey. In the print edition of the Toronto Star, they show that in the Toronto area, only about 20% of teenagers who claim to follow sports "very or fairly closely" say that they follow the NHL. 25% say they follow soccer very or fairly closely. A whopping 32% follow basketball. The NFL has the attention of about 18% of these teenagers. The highest level of attention being paid to soccer by teenagers on a regional basis is taking place in BC. 28% of teenagers who follow pro sports closely say that they follow Soccer very closely. Being from the GTA, these figures do not surprise me. To me, it is an undeniable fact that Soccer and Hoops register higher than Hockey in the consciousness of teenagers. If you look around at what kids are wearing in public, you see Soccer jerseys and Basketball jerseys worn all the time. You almost never see hockey merchandise save for the odd NHL themed baseball cap. Hockey is most certainly on the decline yet, somehow, marketers and members of the MSM are missing it totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Think the MLB numbers are actually the most startling snippet of info from that article in that they are drastic enough to suggest that a terminal decline is now underway in terms of baseball being a major mainstream sport in a Canadian context given those numbers are clearly massively out of step with those for the other three sports mentioned. That's the direct competitor to soccer rather than hockey in participation terms amongst the generation that grew up during the youth soccer registration boom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard Think the MLB numbers are actually the most startling snippet of info from that article in that they are drastic enough to suggest that a terminal decline is now underway in terms of baseball being a major mainstream sport in a Canadian context given those numbers are clearly massively out of step with those for the other three sports mentioned. That's the direct competitor to soccer rather than hockey in participation terms amongst the generation that grew up during the youth soccer registration boom. Baseball is on a decline everywhere it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr In the print edition of the Toronto Star, they show that in the Toronto area, only about 20% of teenagers who claim to follow sports "very or fairly closely" say that they follow the NHL. 25% say they follow soccer very or fairly closely. A whopping 32% follow basketball. The NFL has the attention of about 18% of these teenagers. The highest level of attention being paid to soccer by teenagers on a regional basis is taking place in BC. 28% of teenagers who follow pro sports closely say that they follow Soccer very closely. Being from the GTA, these figures do not surprise me. To me, it is an undeniable fact that Soccer and Hoops register higher than Hockey in the consciousness of teenagers. If you look around at what kids are wearing in public, you see Soccer jerseys and Basketball jerseys worn all the time. You almost never see hockey merchandise save for the odd NHL themed baseball cap. Hockey is most certainly on the decline yet, somehow, marketers and members of the MSM are missing it totally. Makes sense considering teens can actually go to a basketball game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 ^ what do you mean? GTA Teens can go to hockey games too? A good ticket to a Raptors game ain't cheap. If a teen in Toronto likes hockey but cant afford Leafs tickets, they can go see a Marlies game for a a very reasonable fee (or Junior A). I think what is clear is that kids in the GTA (and likely around the country) are becomming more and more interested in globally popular sports rather. For decades, hockey was all that was available in winter time through Mainstream media and there really wasn't much of an alternative media. the MSM still tries to stuff hockey down our throats like it is the only sport that exists (does the government subsidize them for talking hockey all the tiem?) but the MSM's best efforts to keep out other sports are being stymied by new media that makes accessing anything "different" very easy. I don't have to explain to this group how huge the internet has been for soccer lovers and the advent of 24 hour soccer channels beaming in high quality international soccer whenever you want them has also been huge. Basketball has hugely benefitted from its close links to "urban" culture, which resonates loudly with youth in urban centers. Basketball is the official sport of "Hip Hop Nation" (hell, Lebron James features in the latest JayZ video and JayZ is a part owner of the New Jersey nets). Hockey's popularity won't diminish outside the large centers (already, you see that the majority of pro hockey players don't come from big cities but rather smaller towns where there is little more to do in winter than play hockey) but as the urbanization of Canada continues full steam ahead, I see hockey slipping more and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr ^ what do you mean? GTA Teens can go to hockey games too? A good ticket to a Raptors game ain't cheap. If a teen in Toronto likes hockey but cant afford Leafs tickets, they can go see a Marlies game for a a very reasonable fee (or Junior A). I think what is clear is that kids in the GTA (and likely around the country) are becomming more and more interested in globally popular sports rather. For decades, hockey was all that was available in winter time through Mainstream media and there really wasn't much of an alternative media. the MSM still tries to stuff hockey down our throats like it is the only sport that exists (does the government subsidize them for talking hockey all the tiem?) but the MSM's best efforts to keep out other sports are being stymied by new media that makes accessing anything "different" very easy. I don't have to explain to this group how huge the internet has been for soccer lovers and the advent of 24 hour soccer channels beaming in high quality international soccer whenever you want them has also been huge. Basketball has hugely benefitted from its close links to "urban" culture, which resonates loudly with youth in urban centers. Basketball is the official sport of "Hip Hop Nation" (hell, Lebron James features in the latest JayZ video and JayZ is a part owner of the New Jersey nets). Hockey's popularity won't diminish outside the large centers (already, you see that the majority of pro hockey players don't come from big cities but rather smaller towns where there is little more to do in winter than play hockey) but as the urbanization of Canada continues full steam ahead, I see hockey slipping more and more. Yet basketball's popularity is also in decline. In realtive terms, almost in the same proportion as hockey. Additionally, Toronto is the only large urban centre, beyond, perhaps, Edmonton, where the decline in hockey is noticable according to the stats given. Basically, it would appear that there is only a drop in interest in sports generally and that no sport is picking up any traction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 ^ I did not see stats showing that Basketball's popularity is declining, although you could be right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 The article cites a drop from 27% to 21% for basketball. Like hockey, as 20ish% drop in interest. Edit: Should have noted your point about Toronto in my reply as very obviously it is popular there. And now seeing the Vancouver numbers, your argument generally about basketball and large urban centres seems supported as the two largest english speaking centres are in the 30s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr ^ what do you mean? GTA Teens can go to hockey games too? A good ticket to a Raptors game ain't cheap. If a teen in Toronto likes hockey but cant afford Leafs tickets, they can go see a Marlies game for a a very reasonable fee (or Junior A). Teens want to see the Leafs, not the Marlies or a junior team so don't bring those two up. Anyhow, hockey is still a much better sport than Basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Macksam Anyhow, hockey is still a much better sport than Basketball. that is clearly your opinion. I have no use for hockey and can't/won't watch a split second of it. however, I will sit down and gladly watch a eurobasket match any night of the week and I share Raps seasons tickets So, if you ask me, Basketball is a much better sport than hockey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Gordon The article cites a drop from 27% to 21% for basketball. Like hockey, as 20ish% drop in interest. No doubt the moving of the grizzlies to the states hurt interest in NBA basketball in some parts of the country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr In the print edition of the Toronto Star, they show that in the Toronto area, only about 20% of teenagers who claim to follow sports "very or fairly closely" say that they follow the NHL. 25% say they follow soccer very or fairly closely. A whopping 32% follow basketball. The NFL has the attention of about 18% of these teenagers. Yeah print edition had nice break down of the stat across each of the major cities in Canada. and it did a region by region breakdown. I was looking for an on-line version to post here but no luck. As with any other stats, there has to be a certain caution, For example the NHL faired poorly in Toronto and Edmonton, but both their NHL teams had crappy seasons. Other noteworthy stat is how relatively poos soccer faired in Montreal. I was surprised by that to be honnest because I always saw it as similar market for soccer as TO is. Percetage of Canadian teens interest is sport... copied from the paper .........NHL....NBA....NFL....SOC....CFL....MLB...... National..35.....21.....19.....18.....14.....10...... Calgary...48.....19.....19.....21.....18......6...... Montreal..45.....15.....22.....14.....14......6...... Vanc'ver..44.....35.....24.....28.....20.....14...... Ottawa....41.....17.....21.....12.....14.....10...... Edm'ton..34.....15.....17.....17.....20......7...... Toronto...20.....32.....19.....25......8.....13...... SOC- refers to soccer(no league specified) NHL hockey by region.....1992.....2008.... Quebec....................43.......44..... Alberta...................56.......39..... BC........................45.......37..... Sas_Man..................46.......35..... Atlantic..................55.......34..... Ontario...................40.......28..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 The results of the poll can be considered suspect since they only cover the NHL with regards to hockey. In that same time period, the CHL expanded greatly to cover many regions outside the major cities. Many of those who had supported the NHL in the past would've switched to the CHL, especially with the feelings on how the NHL has been operated during the same period. Immigration patterns alone can't explain the drops in NHL support. The poll also doesn't take into account the popularity of the national teams, which didn't exist in the early 1990's. As has been seen in recent years, baseball hasn't really been in a decline. MLB influence in Canada, however, has been going downhill for a number of years. Outside of MLB, baseball has seen growth amongst the amateur ranks while professional focus has moved towards establishing teams in the independent leagues, in which Canada has 5 teams as of now. The NBA suffers from the fact that its only Canadian presence is that of the Raptors, which have no real connections in the rest of the country. Basketball has a long history in Canada (it was a Canadian who invented it) and could easily be a sport that branches out into many levels of Canadian society, immigrant or otherwise (basketball can be placed as the No.2 international sport behind Soccer) The problem is that you have far more options available in terms of sports and other leisure activities involved. The political situation with sports in Canada is also a significant factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soju Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Where are boxing and MMA in those polls I wonder? I'd like to see how those and other individual sports add up in terms of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Soju Where are boxing and MMA in those polls I wonder? I'd like to see how those and other individual sports add up in terms of interest. Especially MMA. It is certainly a biggie in Saskatoon. Boxing is likely in decline but MMA has gone crazy in the west generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hectorj Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 1. The NHL season is too long (should be cut to 64 games-never play past Victoria Day) 2. Playoffs too long (7 games series throughout is too much) 3. Canadian presence is tolerated because it's profitable, but Bettman was quite happy to lose Winnipeg and Quebec and deny Balsillie We were chumps to let the Americans join our league back in the 20's. Imagine a set up like English football and the Stanley Cup was like the FA Cup. The Premiership could have the existing 6 + Winnipeg, Hamilton, QC and Halifax. There could be 4 or 5 leagues with promotion and relegation and everybody would get a chance at the cup. My only worry is that without the US, the talent would flee for richer climes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 quote:Originally posted by hectorj 1. The NHL season is too long (should be cut to 64 games-never play past Victoria Day) 2. Playoffs too long (7 games series throughout is too much) 3. Canadian presence is tolerated because it's profitable, but Bettman was quite happy to lose Winnipeg and Quebec and deny Balsillie We were chumps to let the Americans join our league back in the 20's. Imagine a set up like English football and the Stanley Cup was like the FA Cup. The Premiership could have the existing 6 + Winnipeg, Hamilton, QC and Halifax. There could be 4 or 5 leagues with promotion and relegation and everybody would get a chance at the cup. My only worry is that without the US, the talent would flee for richer climes. Couldn't be more wrong. The seven game series throughout is what makes the Stanley Cup the hardest trophy to win in the world. Why do you think the NBA copied that model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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