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Aug 4: TFC @ Puerto Rico (R)


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quote:Originally posted by Blue and White Army

I expect that the majority of Whitecaps fans engaging in schadenfreude in regards to TFC's loss are not "Toronto haters" in general, but are loathe to TFC's new arrogant (and ignorant) army of plastics.

If TFC supporters were all as informed as the U-Sector, I doubt there would be much goading from Vancouverites.

I'm new to this board but I notice that Vancouver fans like to insult Toronto fans as being plastic. For me plastic fans are those that walk around with jerseys from Europe and call themselves soccer fans even if they are not from europe.

Soccer is still growing in this country so for me no fans that support canadian soccer teams are plastic

If for you plastic fans mean fans that go to occasional games but do not watch or attend every game on tv but follow canadian teams occassionally, then I think you can accuse many fans of this for every team not only Toronto.

I am an impact fan I have been to many games and I find a lot of impact fans at the stadium are occassional fans. They know little about how well the impact are doing in the standings. Except the ultras. Does this make them plastic all too?

Vancouvers stadium only fits a few thousand people but when Vancouver starts playing at BC Place they will find a lot of new fans that did not care before. Are all the new fans plastic too?

My brother like me is a native Montrealer. He moved to Toronto 5 years ago and the only soccer he followed was my fathers team Zenit St. Petersburg. He started following Canadian soccer when Toronto got a team.

Does this make him plastic because he follows a new team?

I am an impact fan but having attended a Toronto game when I visit my brother I find that I do want Toronto to do well. I was happy that De Guzman signed for them. Does this also make me a plastic fan? I want all Canadian teams to do well I guess that makes me plastic too.

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quote:Originally posted by Franco-Ruskie

I'm new to this board but I notice that Vancouver fans like to insult Toronto fans as being plastic. For me plastic fans are those that walk around with jerseys from Europe and call themselves soccer fans even if they are not from europe.

Soccer is still growing in this country so for me no fans that support canadian soccer teams are plastic

If for you plastic fans mean fans that go to occasional games but do not watch or attend every game on tv but follow canadian teams occassionally, then I think you can accuse many fans of this for every team not only Toronto.

I am an impact fan I have been to many games and I find a lot of impact fans at the stadium are occassional fans. They know little about how well the impact are doing in the standings. Except the ultras. Does this make them plastic all too?

Vancouvers stadium only fits a few thousand people but when Vancouver starts playing at BC Place they will find a lot of new fans that did not care before. Are all the new fans plastic too?

My brother like me is a native Montrealer. He moved to Toronto 5 years ago and the only soccer he followed was my fathers team Zenit St. Petersburg. He started following Canadian soccer when Toronto got a team.

Does this make him plastic because he follows a new team?

I am an impact fan but having attended a Toronto game when I visit my brother I find that I do want Toronto to do well. I was happy that De Guzman signed for them. Does this also make me a plastic fan? I want all Canadian teams to do well I guess that makes me plastic too.

I believe that "Plastic" refers to the authenticity of some of the TFC support. With the exception of U-Sector, where were the other supporters when the Toronto Lynx were around?

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quote:Originally posted by Mr.Impact

I believe that "Plastic" refers to the authenticity of some of the TFC support. With the exception of U-Sector, where were the other supporters when the Toronto Lynx were around?

Who cares? The Lynx were a joke organization who hated true support. They existed (and still do exist) purely as a tax write-off for their narrow-minded owners.

I say all of that as someone who has been to dozens of Lynx games.

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So if we want to see Vancouver do well in MLS we have to expect some "Plastic" fans to appear at some point? At the moment what's the Caps average attendance? Somewhere between 5 000 and 7 000? They'll need to raise that if they want have a successful MLS journey. You have to expect the same for MTL.

I've never understand that "plastic" fans stuff, it's way the pro sports work almost everywhere in the world....

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^the plastic accusations result as much from the attitude that TFC invented football support in North America moreso than the fact that those same fans couldn't be f*cked attending Lynx matches prior to TFC's creation. Many of those 'plastics' didn't rate MLS as a competition prior to 2006, but as soon Toronto joined the league, they'd immediately have us believe that it was as good as most leagues in Europe, excepting the top divisions in England, Spain, Italy, and Germany. This attitude spilled over into the assumption that TFC would walk the Voyageurs' Cup as a birthrite. Granted, not all TFC supporters are like this, but even the staunchest apologist for the TFC plastics has to acknowledge that enough of these people are around to rub the rest of the country the wrong way. I have no doubt that Vancouver will draw many new fans once the 'Caps make the jump to MLS. Any of those who take on airs, as many of the new fans in TO have done, will immediately be labelled as plastic, as well.

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You guys make me laugh. TFC fans are plastic? If we were, we wouldn't be watching MLS at all regardless if Toronto had a team or not.

As for Toronto Lynx, how many people even knew Lynx existed before TFC came to town? I personally never knew anything about Lynx until I joined this board.

ROC needs to stop this nonsense when comes to Toronto soccer. GTA has contributed a lot to Canadian soccer family and has produce some quality players in the past. A lot of people in GTA love soccer as much as their love hockey and basketball (too bad Toronto media doesn't realize this at all). Can you say the same about ROC? Probably not.

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in my view, plastic fans are those who go to tfc games for the party atmosphere or bc its the thing to do, and while they care about TFC and know the team and the players, are not really in love with football, and don't give a damn about the national team.

having gone to a lynx game is a contra indicator for plasticity, nothing more.

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quote:Originally posted by TFC07

You guys make me laugh. TFC fans are plastic? If we were, we wouldn't be watching MLS at all regardless if Toronto had a team or not.

As for Toronto Lynx, how many people even knew Lynx existed before TFC came to town? I personally never knew anything about Lynx until I joined this board.

ROC needs to stop this nonsense when comes to Toronto soccer. GTA has contributed a lot to Canadian soccer family and has produce some quality players in the past. A lot of people in GTA love soccer as much as their love hockey and basketball (too bad Toronto media doesn't realize this at all). Can you say the same about ROC? Probably not.

We make you laugh? Ironically, a plastic comes on here to disparage the rest of the country's bona fides for soccer support. You are exactly the type of 'supporter' that I described above that puts the rest of the country off TFC supporters. You do many of your fellow TFC supporters a disservice when they have to be painted by the same brush as the likes of you. Do me a favour, Mr Plastic, look at the below list and tell us again how the rest of the country can't match up to Toronto's footballing pedigree:

Tino Lettieri-Montreal,

Bob Lennarduzzi-Vancouver,

Bruce Wilson-Vancouver/Victoria,

Randy Ragan-born in Alberta,

Terry Moore-born in New Brunswick, grew up and lives in N Ireland,

Ian Bridge-Victoria,

Carl Valentine-born in England, but has lived in Vancouver since 70s,

Gerry Gray-Toronto,

Branko Segota-Toronto,

Igor Vrablic-Ontario,

Mike Sweeney-Vancouver,

Randy Samuel-Vancouver,

George Pakos-Victoria,

Dale Mitchell-Vancouver,

Paul James-Ontario,

Greg Ion-Vancouver,

David Norman-Vancouver,

Jamie Lowery-Victoria,

Pasquale DeLuca-Alberta,

Colin Miller-Vancouver,

Sven Habermann-born in Germany, not sure where he grew up,

Paul Dolan-Vancouver.

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How can that phrase

quote:GTA has contributed a lot to Canadian soccer family and has produce some quality players in the past.

results in to this:

quote:Originally posted by SthMelbRed

Do me a favour, Mr Plastic, look at the below list and tell us again how the rest of the country can't match up to Toronto's footballing pedigree:

Tino Lettieri-Montreal,

Bob Lennarduzzi-Vancouver,

Bruce Wilson-Vancouver/Victoria,

Randy Ragan-born in Alberta,

Terry Moore-born in New Brunswick, grew up and lives in N Ireland,

Ian Bridge-Victoria,

Carl Valentine-born in England, but has lived in Vancouver since 70s,

Gerry Gray-Toronto,

Branko Segota-Toronto,

Igor Vrablic-Ontario,

Mike Sweeney-Vancouver,

Randy Samuel-Vancouver,

George Pakos-Victoria,

Dale Mitchell-Vancouver,

Paul James-Ontario,

Greg Ion-Vancouver,

David Norman-Vancouver,

Jamie Lowery-Victoria,

Pasquale DeLuca-Alberta,

Colin Miller-Vancouver,

Sven Habermann-born in Germany, not sure where he grew up,

Paul Dolan-Vancouver.

He never said Toronto has a footballing pedigree that no one can't match, just that Toronto has contributed a lot by producing some fine players (JDG, Stalteri, Atiba, Radz, Kluka, DeRo, etc.) over the years.

Maybe we have the "Plastic fans" but you clearly belong to a group call "The Insecure fans" with that quote...

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quote:Originally posted by TFC07

You guys make me laugh. TFC fans are plastic? If we were, we wouldn't be watching MLS at all regardless if Toronto had a team or not.

As for Toronto Lynx, how many people even knew Lynx existed before TFC came to town? I personally never knew anything about Lynx until I joined this board.

ROC needs to stop this nonsense when comes to Toronto soccer. GTA has contributed a lot to Canadian soccer family and has produce some quality players in the past. A lot of people in GTA love soccer as much as their love hockey and basketball (too bad Toronto media doesn't realize this at all). Can you say the same about ROC? Probably not.

Yet those in the Canadian soccer family knew of the existence of the Toronto Lynx. You couldn't talk about the national team without stepping into the issue of the Lynx.

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quote:Originally posted by loyola

How can that phrase

results in to this:

He never said Toronto has a footballing pedigree that no one can't match, just that Toronto has contributed a lot by producing some fine players (JDG, Stalteri, Atiba, Radz, Kluka, DeRo, etc.) over the years.

Maybe we have the "Plastic fans" but you clearly belong to a group call "The Insecure fans" with that quote...

Yeah, he took quite a leap there.

TFC07 was acting like a bit of a douche, but he never suggested anything to prompt such a ridiculous response from SthMlbRed.

In regards to the "plastics" BS that gets thrown around, mostly by supporters of the Whitecaps for whatever reason, I wonder if they are going to be so hostile towards their own fans once 15-20,000 people who couldn't give a crap about the USL Caps latch onto the MLS Caps. Surely they won't be so self-loathing.

The ironic part is that the Southsiders will grow a lot once MLS rolls around, just like it did for us at U-Sector. Are they going to call their own members plastic, too?

Aren't we all hoping for our wonderful sport to gain in popularity in this country? So why then, when it starts to show some growth, do some of us see purpose in cutting down what we've all been striving for for years?

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Absolutely. What do you guys who hate on newcomers expect new Voyageur's to think of this forum? Imagine reading this as your first thread? To borrow a line from South Park, who the hell would want to join our gay little club?

Hardcore fans who supported teams like the Lynx back in the day, or the Whitecaps now, power to you. Don't hate on people just because we weren't walking to the stadium, up hill both ways, through 6 feet of snow, to see the Lynx take on the whoever the hell.

As many here have stated, there's always going to be legions of new fans to any new-big-thing, be it TFC or anything else for that matter. Did you have to be at their first little gig in Montreal to like the Arcade Fire? Give me a break.

If someone wants to go to BMO, because of the atmosphere, they think it will be fun, want to take a blood test in order to buy a $40 beer, or check it out for the hell of it, that's their right, and I for one am glad that people do do that. We weren't all born hardcore soccer fans.

There isn't a stadium in the world that is filled with people who classify to everyone as "real fans". Get over it. And used to it, because to many people here it's coming to a town near you, and soon.

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quote:Originally posted by loyola

How can that phrase

results in to this:

He never said Toronto has a footballing pedigree that no one can't match, just that Toronto has contributed a lot by producing some fine players (JDG, Stalteri, Atiba, Radz, Kluka, DeRo, etc.) over the years.

Maybe we have the "Plastic fans" but you clearly belong to a group call "The Insecure fans" with that quote...

The paragraph you snipped the sentence from said "ROC needs to stop this nonsense when comes to Toronto soccer. GTA has contributed a lot to Canadian soccer family and has produce some quality players in the past. A lot of people in GTA love soccer as much as their love hockey and basketball (too bad Toronto media doesn't realize this at all). Can you say the same about ROC? Probably not." Exactly what the intent of the original poster is knownonly to him, and it may well have been meant to apply to drivel regarding about loving hockey and basketball in TO as well, but the sentence bolded, could easily be interpretted to apply to the entire paragraph.

In any event, I have to say that this thread, along with the "Toronto the Hated" thread have provided me with much mirth, and I am pleased to see it continue. Were this my workplace, I'd be calling for a mediator but as an outside observer I am most amused.

And for a change, I mostly agree with Rudi's last post :-)

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quote:Originally posted by Gordon

The paragraph you snipped the sentence from said "ROC needs to stop this nonsense when comes to Toronto soccer. GTA has contributed a lot to Canadian soccer family and has produce some quality players in the past. A lot of people in GTA love soccer as much as their love hockey and basketball (too bad Toronto media doesn't realize this at all). Can you say the same about ROC? Probably not." Exactly what the intent of the original poster is knownonly to him, and it may well have been meant to apply to drivel regarding about loving hockey and basketball in TO as well, but the sentence bolded, could easily be interpretted to apply to the entire paragraph.

In any event, I have to say that this thread, along with the "Toronto the Hated" thread have provided me with much mirth, and I am pleased to see it continue. Were this my workplace, I'd be calling for a mediator but as an outside observer I am most amused.

And for a change, I mostly agree with Rudi's last post :-)

TBH, I thought it was clear he was referring to the part about Hockey and basketball since his sentence about Toronto and producing players was pretty neutral and didn't sound like he was trying to provoke. I thought the basket and hockey part was where the provocation was. But maybe I'm wrong.

I also agree with Rudi and that's why I'm a bit surprise when some are trying to use a kind of "I'm better than you" card in term of fans history. We all want a see this sport grow in Canada and we are in need of success stories (TFC crowds is one of those, TFC success as a club is another thing ;), MTL run in the CCC, Canada vs Jamaica crowd last year) to see that happening.

We are all tired of the people who only follow big clubs in Europe and s#$t on Canadian soccer but when some of them are joining us, like it's the case with a part of TFC fans, calling them "plastic" is doing ourselves a disservice IMO.

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loyola: It obvious you’re the only person here who is reading my post correctly.

quote:Originally posted by SthMelbRed

We make you laugh? Ironically, a plastic comes on here to disparage the rest of the country's bona fides for soccer support. You are exactly the type of 'supporter' that I described above that puts the rest of the country off TFC supporters. You do many of your fellow TFC supporters a disservice when they have to be painted by the same brush as the likes of you.

Where do I begin with this comment?

1. I am a fan, not supporter.

2. I am assuming you're a whitecaps fan, right? If so, then that might explain your jealousy towards Toronto. I wonder when all so called plastic fans start supporting Whitecaps once they're in MLS, I wonder if you label them plastic or not. Just you know, Whitecaps front office has been studying/surveying TFC and how they attract fans (or you like call them, plastic). What do you think about that?

3. See ya'll in couple of years. I can't wait to go to Vancouver (nice city btw) to see TFC play against Whitecaps.

quote:Do me a favour, Mr Plastic, look at the below list and tell us again how the rest of the country can't match up to Toronto's footballing pedigree:

Tino Lettieri-Montreal,

Bob Lennarduzzi-Vancouver,

Bruce Wilson-Vancouver/Victoria,

Randy Ragan-born in Alberta,

Terry Moore-born in New Brunswick, grew up and lives in N Ireland,

Ian Bridge-Victoria,

Carl Valentine-born in England, but has lived in Vancouver since 70s,

Gerry Gray-Toronto,

Branko Segota-Toronto,

Igor Vrablic-Ontario,

Mike Sweeney-Vancouver,

Randy Samuel-Vancouver,

George Pakos-Victoria,

Dale Mitchell-Vancouver,

Paul James-Ontario,

Greg Ion-Vancouver,

David Norman-Vancouver,

Jamie Lowery-Victoria,

Pasquale DeLuca-Alberta,

Colin Miller-Vancouver,

Sven Habermann-born in Germany, not sure where he grew up,

Paul Dolan-Vancouver.

Mr. Plastic? Cute. Can mods here change my username to Mr. Plastic? [8D]

Anyway, those players in the past aren't as talented as current players from GTA. Our current players actually play top tier leagues unlike past Canadian players. Most of our best players are coming from GTA as we speak. So don't be surprised if our men’s team gets taken over by GTA players completely if it hasn't already.

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FFS, I was staying out of this but Mr TFC07 is certainly earning any abuse headed his way.

Best Canadian in the Bundesliga - is from where?

Best Canadian in Turkish first division - is from where?

Best Canadian in England - is from where?

Best Canadian in Greek first division - is from where?

All those 1st divisions are top tier leagues.

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quote:Originally posted by Ed

FFS, I was staying out of this but Mr TFC07 is certainly earning any abuse headed his way.

Best Canadian in the Bundesliga - is from where? Saskatchewan (Friend)

Best Canadian in Turkish first division - is from where? BC (Simpson)

Best Canadian in England - is from where? Ontario (Hoilett and Edgar)

Best Canadian in Greek first division - is from where? (No one eligible for Canada MNT in that league)

All those 1st divisions are top tier leagues.

:D

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quote:Originally posted by loyola

:D

Hargreaves and Nsaliwa are both Canadians from Alberta, despite who they play or don't play for nationally and Friend is from Rosetown much like Robin Regehr is from Brazil (not); Kelowna is his hometown.

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quote:Originally posted by Ed

FFS, I was staying out of this but Mr TFC07 is certainly earning any abuse headed his way.

Best Canadian in the Bundesliga - is from where?

Best Canadian in Turkish first division - is from where?

Best Canadian in England - is from where?

Best Canadian in Greek first division - is from where?

All those 1st divisions are top tier leagues.

Turkish and Greek leagues are 2nd tier.

JDG (and his little brother) and DeRo are better than Friend (btw he has been useless for Canada).

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quote:Originally posted by Ed

You think the Turkish and Greek leagues are 2nd tier? To MLS????? My God.

Don't try to put words in my mouth.

EPL, La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga are top tier leagues.

Is Turkish and Greek leagues even better than Ligue 1 or Portugal's top leauge (liga)?

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Yes I know Ed, but I was just kidding as I knew you wanted to see Alberta written a couple of times. I could've said Stalteri was the best Canadian in the Bundesliga...[:P]

Seriously, while I think TFC07 is going over the top with some of his claims, I think we can't ignore the fact that at the moment Ontario is well represented in our MNT pool:

http://www.canadasoccer.com/players/national/male.asp

I took away 7 names of guys who really aren't in the picture anymore (Grande, Imhof, Imhof2, Onstad, Nash, Rosenlund and Radz) and you have 37 players.

22 are from Ontario

5 from Quebec

4 from BC

5 from Alberta (including Issey)

1 from NS

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quote:Originally posted by TFC07

Don't try to put words in my mouth.

EPL, La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga are top tier leagues.

Is Turkish and Greek leagues even better than Ligue 1 or Portugal's top leauge (liga)?

No one's been putting words in your mouth, but those big European leagues would underestimate the Greek and Turkish leagues. They know that teams from these leagues can bring it to them.

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