The Score boycott's Gold Cup

[Tuscan]

I emailed The Footy Show this morning, and they responded quite quickly. They were watching the Gold Cup with as much enthusiasm as the rest of us, and were equally appauled at the horrific penalty call that sent us home. I believe these guys to give just as much of a crap as the rest of us, so let's show them that we acknowledge the fact they are showing they care by the actions they're taking. Good on 'em!

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

Might be. Does his hair resemble prairie road kill? If so, that's him. But Rudi, surely you are not assuming TFC content = Cdn content?

And I don't follow the podcasts. I am talking about on air.

TFC content does = Canadian content. Toronto is a Canadian city, after all.

Of course they can be covering more Canadian content, but I was just pointing out that it was not just EPL that they talk about.

As for on air, again, it's more than likely a decision made by the higher ups rather than the on air personalities, especially since EPL games are a Score property. But you can't discount the new media venues, either.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

The Score's reaction may be a good PR move for the station as it obviously pleases a segment of their domestic market but I am not sure that it will have any effect whatsoever on the Gold Cup or CONCACAF or anything else other than their ratings for that matter, but I doubt their intention was any broader than that anyway. Bit pointless and parochial in the grand scheme of things really.

Maybe they don't realize that what they read here is not necessarily representative of the interests and views of most people in Canada who follow soccer given the self-selecting nature of messageboard participation? Rightly or wrongly (and I would say the latter) the CMNT is barely even on the radar with most people directly involved at the grassroots of the sport in my experience.

[loyola]

It's too easy now. When it's not the coach it's the ref....it's simple as that. Our A team wasn't able to score against a B Honduras team and we should feel we were robbed? Ok, the PK might be dubious or a very bad call but what about our players not scoring a single goal?

Our players have very bad habits, they rarely take responsability for their results. Either they blame their coach or they blame the ref....I'm a bit tired of that attitude.

As for the Score decision, they should report objectively and mention that Honduras was denied a possible PK early on in the game, so we kind of got a break (any replay of that, I would like to take a second look). I have no problem if the medias are reporting about a terrible call but it's not their job to start a protest about that (they are journalist first, not fans).

BTW, I still think the 2007 call against the USA was the wrong call but the situation was a very tough one to call for a linesman.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

It's too easy now. When it's not the coach it's the ref....it's simple as that. Our A team wasn't able to score against a B Honduras team and we should feel we were robbed? Ok, the PK might be dubious or a very bad call but what about our players not scoring a single goal?

I see what you're saying, but that wasn't our A team.

quote:BTW, I still think the 2007 call against the USA was the wrong call but the situation was a very tough one to call for a linesman.

I could call it from the front row behind the net at Soldier Field, but the linesman couldn't from his vantage point directly in line with the play?

[loyola]

That was our A team minus 1 or 2 players. Our 3 best midfielders were there, our best striker in recent times was there, with a our best backline possible. Only Lars and DeRo were missing and I doubt Lars would've changed something against Honduras.

As for the 2007 call, go on a ref forum (or find a good ref) and ask if Oneywu header was a back pass, you'll see the interpretation isn't clear but most of them will tell you it wasn't. From there you have to look at the other possible situations on the play (no offside when Bernier initially played the ball and offside if Hume had a touch on the ball). I admit it wasn't the right call but my point is the overall situation was more complex than what it looked like first.

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Our players have very bad habits, they rarely take responsability for their results. Either they blame their coach or they blame the ref....I'm a bit tired of that attitude.

I totally agree. On the excuse meter i think we're almost as bad as the Mexicans.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

It's too easy now. When it's not the coach it's the ref....it's simple as that. Our A team wasn't able to score against a B Honduras team and we should feel we were robbed? Ok, the PK might be dubious or a very bad call but what about our players not scoring a single goal?

If the players couldn't score after 120 minutes and the game goes to PK's and we still lose and then that is fair enough. That isn't what happened though. I watched every game Honduras played in this tourney bar their match vs. Granada. They played three games against tough teams (2 vs. US, 1 against Canada) and in those three games scored zero legitimate goals and created very little in the way of scoring chances. They also created very little against Haiti. This was a team that wasn't every likely to score or create much against us. Getting a gift goal on a horrible call and then bunkering was the only way that Honduran B team could have beaten us, either that or going to PK's, which is what is really irritating since it is exactly what happened. And B teams can bunker just as well as A teams - sometimes better, especially as bunkering isn't the strength of players like Guevara and De Leon. Canada can take the blame for not scoring, but the Ref made their task much more difficult by putting them a goal behind and allowing Honduras the opportunity to do nothing but sit back and defend. Had Honduras earned the right to defend a lead that would be one thing - having it bestowed upon them from on high is another.

quote:

Our players have very bad habits, they rarely take responsability for their results.

True, but the team's biggest whiners/blamers weren't at this tourney and those that were at this tourney did precious little in the way of whining or making excuses ahead of time (one reason in my view why we got off to such a great start - the players themselves came in with the right mentality and attitude). The ones that played in this tourney were the ones that, when given the chance to publicly blame Mitchell or criticize him, chose to say it wasn't his fault or that he was a great coach (just watch the youtube videos). They are complaining about the officiating but they have an obviously legit. complaint that is shared by fans (including every neutral fan I've seen and even the Honduran ones) and media as well. Its the first time I've seen everyone so unified on an issue - with, ironically, the only people believing it to be the right call being a handful of posters on this board.

[squizz1402635577]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

If the players couldn't score after 120 minutes and the game goes to PK's and we still lose and then that is fair enough. That isn't what happened though. I watched every game Honduras played in this tourney bar their match vs. Granada. They played three games against tough teams (2 vs. US, 1 against Canada) and in those three games scored zero legitimate goals and created very little in the way of scoring chances. They also created very little against Haiti. This was a team that wasn't every likely to score or create much against us. Getting a gift goal on a horrible call and then bunkering was the only way that Honduran B team could have beaten us, either that or going to PK's, which is what is really irritating since it is exactly what happened. And B teams can bunker just as well as A teams - sometimes better, especially as bunkering isn't the strength of players like Guevara and De Leon. Canada can take the blame for not scoring, but the Ref made their task much more difficult by putting them a goal behind and allowing Honduras the opportunity to do nothing but sit back and defend. Had Honduras earned the right to defend a lead that would be one thing - having it bestowed upon them from on high is another.

Discussion over. Gian-Luca wins.

[grigorio]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

It's too easy now. When it's not the coach it's the ref....it's simple as that. Our A team wasn't able to score against a B Honduras team and we should feel we were robbed? Ok, the PK might be dubious or a very bad call but what about our players not scoring a single goal?

Our players have very bad habits, they rarely take responsability for their results. Either they blame their coach or they blame the ref....I'm a bit tired of that attitude.

As for the Score decision, they should report objectively and mention that Honduras was denied a possible PK early on in the game, so we kind of got a break (any replay of that, I would like to take a second look). I have no problem if the medias are reporting about a terrible call but it's not their job to start a protest about that (they are journalist first, not fans).

BTW, I still think the 2007 call against the USA was the wrong call but the situation was a very tough one to call for a linesman.

Our players have very bad habits, they rarely take responsability for their results. Either they blame their coach or they blame the ref....I'm a bit tired of that attitude.

First the association, then the coach, then the ref, then CONCACAF, then turf, then travel arrangements, then crowd size and support, then... themselves maybe

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by squizz

Discussion over. Gian-Luca wins.

No one is arguing the call didn't make our task more difficult but let's remember that the ref made our task easier by not calling a PK earlier in the game.

Let also remember that without Jakovic (who played well in the first 2 games but had a shacky game against Honduras) mistake we aren't giving the opportunity for such a call. The first reason why this call was made (and yes Stalteri was holding the Honduran player arm, enough for a foul? It's up to your interpretation) was because we let that ball go to the Honduran players because of inept defending.

That's why I'm looking at the players in such situation. Good teams sometimes find a way to overcome a bad call, I don't remember our NT doing it once in an important game lately. I'm not saying we should overcome bad calls everytime they happen, we aren't that good, but if we are top 4-5 in CONCACAF like some here like to claim we should be able to do it sometimes....

[redhat]

quote:Originally posted by grigorio

First the association, then the coach, then the ref, then CONCACAF, then turf, then travel arrangements, then crowd size and support, then... themselves maybe

I can guarantee you that the players blame themselves more for the

loss than anyone else. The ones that showed up at the Gold Cup

were ones that had a lot to prove after a failed WCQ, and if anyone

were more disappointed it were these players.

Sure they may talk about conspiracies and incompetent refs too,

but they will also point out that they didn't capitalize on their

other chances.

So if The Score feels like creating some sort of boycott, good for

them. Blame the anti-Canadian soccer stuff on TSN ...

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Good teams sometimes find a way to overcome a bad call, I don't remember our NT doing it once in an important game lately. I'm not saying we should overcome bad calls everytime they happen, we aren't that good, but if we are top 4-5 in CONCACAF like some here like to claim we should be able to do it sometimes....

What about 2 bad calls? Perhaps you recall the WCQ in Edmonton where a "bad" call was brushed aside and the winning goal scored...only to be negated by another "bad" call. It wasn't that long ago. Pretty important game IIRC as well. The problem Loyola is summed up in the paragraph I quote...and it is clear by your wording that you recognize it subconsciously at least: Good teams sometimes find a way to overcome a bad call, I don't remember our NT doing it once in an important game lately. Yes, we have all had several opportunities to see how our team reacts to bad calls in important games...that is the problem...we've had the opportunities because there have been so many bad calls and always against other top 4-5 teams.

Seriously, you are starting to sound like these battered women who rationalize staying with their batterers because somehow they must have deserved it. You watch a lot of soccer across more than one continent I am sure. In every continent, including ours, defenders and forwards having their arms on each other, grabbing shirts, tugging is par for the course. ****, in the game we are talking about Gerba was tackled by a Honduran defender at the top of the box. Stalteri did not do anything that warranted a penalty in minute 2 and nothing to warrant a penalty that was given. Period. We do not have to be grateful that we didn't get screwed twice in the game.

We do not "deserve" double standard officiating, we do not "deserve" to have to at least 2 undisputable goals in order to possibly win a game in CONCACAF, we do not "deserve" to be screwed twice in our home stadium in WCQ and our players do not "deserve" to go into games believing, as at least some of them do, that the officials will screw them over. And it doesn't matter how we play on any given day, whether the opposition is an A or a B team or whether the official "prefers" a latin style. The bottom line, and the only line that matters is that we do not "deserve" to be repeatedly cheated.

Anytime there is a bad call, there is a rationalization as to why it might have been miscalled. And officials are human and will make mistakes. But when it happens over and over, and never breaks the other way then it is time to call a spade a spade.

Let me ask you this, do you honestly think that if Adrian Serioux, or Kevin Harmse came in late, hard with studs knee high and flipped Landon Donovan, Amando Guevara, Blanco or Suazo that it would not have been a straight red.

[loyola]

My problem is that we are putting too much emphasis on the ref alledge mistake. I don't want start an argument about if it was a foul or not but let me say that when you have a player arm in your hands you are looking for trouble, true most of the time it isn't called but you are still looking for trouble IMO). Ok, for the rest of the discussion let's assume it was the incorrect call.

My point is that we are putting too much emphasis on the ref when our own players also messed up on that play.

You are correct about the Honduras game in 2004 but in the end this about the only time we've been screwed up in a WCQ game in 3 times (2000, 2004 and 2008). I guess you are alluding to that crazy tackle in 2007 on De Guzman against the USA, I think it was a red but what about the red on Onstad (we've seen it given many times, that was a perfect DOGSO situation IMO).

I just don't think we are being cheated. Yes, we've had our fair share of bad calls going against us in the GC but in the end our real position in CONCACAF is determine with the WCQ where we've been "cheated" once in our last 3 attempts (24 games?), so I won't start giving too much time whinning about bad calls in the GC, specially when we failed to score and made an horrible play who lead to the PK situation.

Maybe I'm acting like a battered woman but some people here spend their time acting like conspiracy theorists so I guess we all have psychological issues...

[squizz1402635577]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Maybe I'm acting like a battered woman but some people here spend their time acting like conspiracy theorists so I guess we all have psychological issues...

Of course we do. We're Canadian soccer supporters.

[DigzTFC]

There is no way that was penalty and those saying it is just like to be contrarians. Plain and simple. Watch a game and you'll see a hell of a lot more happening in the 18 yard box than that. Its called defending. If that had happened in the EUROs or the Copa Suda America that referee would have had death threats and riots would have ensued. Mexico complained about the ref and he proved his worth in the quarter final. He would never pull that trash if he went to the World Cup.

Saying that, Will Johnson could have put his shot from 10 yards out in, our corners could have actually gone in dangerous positions, we could have worked more through the middle and JDG could have played the counter attack a bit better than just back passing it on every counter. The problem is that Canada is mentally weak and every time we see quick sand during a game we step right in to it.

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

My problem is that we are putting too much emphasis on the ref alledge mistake. I don't want start an argument about if it was a foul or not but let me say that when you have a player arm in your hands you are looking for trouble, true most of the time it isn't called but you are still looking for trouble IMO). Ok, for the rest of the discussion let's assume it was the incorrect call.

My point is that we are putting too much emphasis on the ref when our own players also messed up on that play.

You are correct about the Honduras game in 2004 but in the end this about the only time we've been screwed up in a WCQ game in 3 times (2000, 2004 and 2008). I guess you are alluding to that crazy tackle in 2007 on De Guzman against the USA, I think it was a red but what about the red on Onstad (we've seen it given many times, that was a perfect DOGSO situation IMO).

I just don't think we are being cheated. Yes, we've had our fair share of bad calls going against us in the GC but in the end our real position in CONCACAF is determine with the WCQ where we've been "cheated" once in our last 3 attempts (24 games?), so I won't start giving too much time whinning about bad calls in the GC, specially when we failed to score and made an horrible play who lead to the PK situation.

Maybe I'm acting like a battered woman but some people here spend their time acting like conspiracy theorists so I guess we all have psychological issues...

Here is a newsflash for you: people "conspire" all the time when there is money at stake. That is no "theory" and as a Lawyer, you should be well aware of that.

I am not sure what its going to take to asist you to see what is patently obvious to most of us, but perhaps we can start by analyzing your own facts. Lest keep it just to the World Cup and ignore the Gold Cup too, just so we don't have to obscure things with the debates about what is meaninful. First, you are forgetting the bogus penalty in the return game versus Honduras in 2004, so it is four games over the last three cycles. During that time, we played 24 games. But, 6 of those games were against minnows with no financial or political clout, nor the talent to compete with Canada without the most blatant even FIFA would have to object officiating, so neither the means, the opportunity nor the motive to cheat exists...so we might as well just toss those out of the equation now. So that leaves 18 games in the semi-finals. Now, given that we've managed to find our selves - oh and I am sure it was just a coincidence - in the group of death twice, and once with T & T - and it is not like we are Brazil here, waltzing thorough our opposition we don;t have to be screwed every time. Sometimes we crap the bed on our own (for example, I am not suggesting for example your boy Onstad was paid to bat the ball into our net) and sometimes we can play well and still lose as the other guys we've been partnered with are pretty good in their own right as well. But 4 out of 18 games is 22% of the meaningful competitive games we've played in the last 3 WC Qualifying rounds. Doesn't that just start to strike you as a little high? How many countries....even soccer powers...would survive that (it just would have taken one call for example, to change Italy from WC Champs in 1982 to disappointing first round flop)? It doesn't take a lot to tilt a level playing field. And when we are in groups with nations that are competitive with us, 22% is a kiss of death.

When you see questionalble draws that always work out to the advantage of the guys who stand to gain substantial money as a result and the fact that in nearly a quarter of our games we've been greated out of points, including twice in one game in our own greating stadium, how can you reach a conclusion that this is just a patch of bad luck? With due respect, it seems incredibly naive, particularly given all of the documentation regarding the corruption in CONCACAF, the sums effectively pilfered by Jack Warner and his cohort.

Nevertheless, putting aside the calls, our players do not always perform up to their abilities or potential. Sometimes that is the preperation or the coach, but just as often, it rests with the players. And I don't disagree with that. I do disagree, however, with eh notion that we are not allowed to play so-so, keep a clean sheet and win/lose in extra time or penalties simply because we played so-so. So we didn't "deserve" the result any more than Honduras deserved the result because Canada didn't play well enough to score on their A- team or B or even C team.

[loyola]

I think you are referring to a dissalowed offside goal in Honduras in 2004 (Atiba I think), I remember Honduras scoring at the end a perfectly legit goal. But considering your theory, why would CONCACAF in 2004 advantage Honduras over us. Shouldn't they be happy witht he fact they placed 4 good teams in the group of death? Why should they give an advantage to Honduras (who didn't even make it out of the group) in this case?

You also mentionned those 18 games in the last 3 WCQ cycle and referred to 4 times where we've been screwed, I'm missing 2 I guess (surely in 2000 because I don't remember one time in 2008). Also, on the other 14 games, how many did we win in meaningfull games? It's not like we're doing much to help our case sometimes.

I agree with you that the way they draw isn't fair but by improving our ranking we should be able to avoid such situation and honestly base on our past results we aren't that much deserving of a better draw.

When I read some people I have the impression that CONCACAF have an anti-Canada agenda and they will try to screw us everytime they can. I just think this isn't the case. One of my club teamate is from El Salvador and he sounds just like you when he talks about his country in CONCACAF. I haven't followed enough WCQ not involving Canada but I have the impression that some teams must feel like us because they don't succeed.

I wouldn't be necessarly surprise if there was some corruption with CONCACAF refs but I doubt this would always involve Canada and I would need a little more than a couple of bad calls here and there before believing it. Fixing games by buying¸refs is a risky adventure and should be uncover at some point but I'm not sure why CONCACAF would risk that in a game between Canada and Honduras and didn't really gain anything from it.

[loyola]

I think you are referring to a dissalowed offside goal in Honduras in 2004 (Atiba I think), I remember Honduras scoring at the end a perfectly legit goal. But considering your theory, why would CONCACAF in 2004 advantage Honduras over us. Shouldn't they be happy witht he fact they placed 4 good teams in the group of death? Why should they give an advantage to Honduras (who didn't even make it out of the group) in this case?

You also mentionned those 18 games in the last 3 WCQ cycle and referred to 4 times where we've been screwed, I'm missing 2 I guess (surely in 2000 because I don't remember one time in 2008). Also, on the other 14 games, how many did we win in meaningfull games? It's not like we're doing much to help our case sometimes.

I agree with you that the way they draw isn't fair but by improving our ranking we should be able to avoid such situation and honestly base on our past results we aren't that much deserving of a better draw.

When I read some people I have the impression that CONCACAF have an anti-Canada agenda and they will try to screw us everytime they can. I just think this isn't the case. One of my club teamate is from El Salvador and he sounds just like you when he talks about his country in CONCACAF. I haven't followed enough WCQ not involving Canada but I have the impression that some teams must feel like us because they don't succeed.

I wouldn't be necessarly surprise if there was some corruption with CONCACAF refs but I doubt this would always involve Canada and I would need a little more than a couple of bad calls here and there before believing it. Fixing games by buying¸refs is a risky adventure and should be uncover at some point but I'm not sure why CONCACAF would risk that in a game between Canada and Honduras and didn't really gain anything from it.

[nolando]

I am so with you, Loyola - bravo for being bold enough to take on the denial camp.

[Tintin]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

No one is arguing the call didn't make our task more difficult but let's remember that the ref made our task easier by not calling a PK earlier in the game.

Let also remember that without Jakovic (who played well in the first 2 games but had a shacky game against Honduras) mistake we aren't giving the opportunity for such a call. The first reason why this call was made (and yes Stalteri was holding the Honduran player arm, enough for a foul? It's up to your interpretation) was because we let that ball go to the Honduran players because of inept defending.

That's why I'm looking at the players in such situation. Good teams sometimes find a way to overcome a bad call, I don't remember our NT doing it once in an important game lately. I'm not saying we should overcome bad calls everytime they happen, we aren't that good, but if we are top 4-5 in CONCACAF like some here like to claim we should be able to do it sometimes....

All I can do is shake my head when I read this. Good teams overcome bad calls SOMETIMES because it only happens to them SOMETIMES. No other team in the world has to put up with the crap we get from CONCACAF.

Every time we get screwed by CONCACAF, we fail to advance, and then fail to get good press for the team, and then we fail to win over new fans, and then we fail to get a good following which supports the team in the stands as well as financially by buying tickets to matches as well as merchandise. It's a vicious circle that I can't see Canada ever getting out of without getting out of CONCACAF altogether.

How you can possibly say that we can just overcome this situation by magically becoming better is a mystery. Maybe if the CSA hired a leprechaun for a manager, and the team rode unicorns to the training ground. Is that how things work in your fantasy world?

CONCACAF doesn't like us. We aren't Mexico with their millions of devoted fans. We aren't the USA with their corporate support and payoffs to Jack Warner. We're too polite for CONCACAF, we don't fit in.

[Tintin]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

I think you are referring to a dissalowed offside goal in Honduras in 2004 (Atiba I think), I remember Honduras scoring at the end a perfectly legit goal. But considering your theory, why would CONCACAF in 2004 advantage Honduras over us. Shouldn't they be happy witht he fact they placed 4 good teams in the group of death? Why should they give an advantage to Honduras (who didn't even make it out of the group) in this case?

You also mentionned those 18 games in the last 3 WCQ cycle and referred to 4 times where we've been screwed, I'm missing 2 I guess (surely in 2000 because I don't remember one time in 2008). Also, on the other 14 games, how many did we win in meaningfull games? It's not like we're doing much to help our case sometimes.

I agree with you that the way they draw isn't fair but by improving our ranking we should be able to avoid such situation and honestly base on our past results we aren't that much deserving of a better draw.

When I read some people I have the impression that CONCACAF have an anti-Canada agenda and they will try to screw us everytime they can. I just think this isn't the case. One of my club teamate is from El Salvador and he sounds just like you when he talks about his country in CONCACAF. I haven't followed enough WCQ not involving Canada but I have the impression that some teams must feel like us because they don't succeed.

I wouldn't be necessarly surprise if there was some corruption with CONCACAF refs but I doubt this would always involve Canada and I would need a little more than a couple of bad calls here and there before believing it. Fixing games by buying¸refs is a risky adventure and should be uncover at some point but I'm not sure why CONCACAF would risk that in a game between Canada and Honduras and didn't really gain anything from it.

My god. It's been going on for the 20 or so years that I've been following the team.

[loyola]

BTW, no one mentionned the fact we were at the other end of a bad call when we played Honduras in San Pedro Sula in October 2008. Remember after the first minute when Lars let a ball go through his hands and legs only to be save by a late flag, the Honduran forward wasn't offside, he was just like Atiba against the USA in 2007. No one is talking about this situation because Honduras won 3-1 but if it would ended 0-0 I guess Honduras would've had the right to feel "cheated". You could add Gerba handball before he scored against Mexico in Edmonton but that was nullified by the weird call on the FK that led to Mexico first goal.

I have no problem acknowledging we are sometimes at the wrong end of some bad calls but why I haven't seen our team do what Honduras did to us in recent memories? Just suck it up and find a way to get the result. I feel that sometimes our players are focussing too much on excuses to justify a bad result (CSA, coach, ref, field, etc.) when they are equally responsible. What was worst Jakovic U-7 play or the ref bad call?

[Gordon]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

I think you are referring to a dissalowed offside goal in Honduras in 2004 (Atiba I think), I remember Honduras scoring at the end a perfectly legit goal. But considering your theory, why would CONCACAF in 2004 advantage Honduras over us. Shouldn't they be happy witht he fact they placed 4 good teams in the group of death? Why should they give an advantage to Honduras (who didn't even make it out of the group) in this case?

You also mentionned those 18 games in the last 3 WCQ cycle and referred to 4 times where we've been screwed, I'm missing 2 I guess (surely in 2000 because I don't remember one time in 2008). Also, on the other 14 games, how many did we win in meaningfull games? It's not like we're doing much to help our case sometimes.

I agree with you that the way they draw isn't fair but by improving our ranking we should be able to avoid such situation and honestly base on our past results we aren't that much deserving of a better draw.

When I read some people I have the impression that CONCACAF have an anti-Canada agenda and they will try to screw us everytime they can. I just think this isn't the case. One of my club teamate is from El Salvador and he sounds just like you when he talks about his country in CONCACAF. I haven't followed enough WCQ not involving Canada but I have the impression that some teams must feel like us because they don't succeed.

I wouldn't be necessarly surprise if there was some corruption with CONCACAF refs but I doubt this would always involve Canada and I would need a little more than a couple of bad calls here and there before believing it. Fixing games by buying¸refs is a risky adventure and should be uncover at some point but I'm not sure why CONCACAF would risk that in a game between Canada and Honduras and didn't really gain anything from it.

I apologise to you Loyola as I did not read and comprehend what it was you were stating in the previous post. I read your comment about it happening once the last three world cup cycles and read it as one bad call in each of the last three. In my eagerness to hoist you on your own petard, I ignored even my own questions about the comment as I only remember us as crapping the bed in both 2000 and 2008. This sort of tunnel vision is something that I hate when it (commonly) occurs to my arguments and posts and as such, I am sorry for doing it to you.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

BTW, no one mentionned the fact we were at the other end of a bad call when we played Honduras in San Pedro Sula in October 2008. Remember after the first minute when Lars let a ball go through his hands and legs only to be save by a late flag, the Honduran forward wasn't offside, he was just like Atiba against the USA in 2007. No one is talking about this situation because Honduras won 3-1 but if it would ended 0-0 I guess Honduras would've had the right to feel "cheated". You could add Gerba handball before he scored against Mexico in Edmonton but that was nullified by the weird call on the FK that led to Mexico first goal.

We aren't forgetting it - your view of what happened there is, once again, not shared by others. He was offside (and with the whistle already blown possibly distracting Lars I'd give him the benefit of the doubt) and there is no visual proof that the ball touched Gerba's hand (not a single one of the 4 Mexican players staring at him raised their hand to suggest it was) and they were right in front of him with a perfect view. Why did none of them claim a foul if he played the ball with his hand

I am perfectly willing to admit when a team I support gets away with a call. Last night TFC did with a play that should have been a PK for a non-call foul in the box by Serioux for example. But for Canada the situation doesn't come up nearly so regularly. These claims of very close offsides and debatable handballs as a way of countering horrifically bad flash-point calls that virtually the entire world can see are wrong is just clutching at straws in my view.