El Hombre Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by bingham Rob Friend Bundesliga Div one 24 games 7 goals Div two 33 games 18 goals MNT 22 games 2 goals That's a pretty simplistic view of things. But, if you want a purely statistical analysis you could also take into account that he played a half or less in half of those games. Or that Canada wins almost as much as it loses (8 wins vs. 9 losses) when he steps on the field and we are .500 when he plays most of the games. Or that he had 12 goals in 15 games at the U-23 level. I could go on if you'd like. To call him "Long Ball Friend" is to completely misunderstand how he plays. For his club team, he usually has a strike partner whereas we've been playing him all alone up top for the national team for some reason. He's dangerous with his head, but his foot work is underrated by most. I guarantee that if you play a simple 4-4-2, with Gerba and Friend up front, you can still play a possession game and we'd be much more lethal in attack. With respect to Tossaint, it's good to see him do well but he's got to progress a little further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronto MB Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Doesn't anybody think that Friend would have popped at least ONE of thos 9,000,304 crosses Simpson and Klukowski put in from the left against Honduras? I am as much a Simeon Jackson and Ali Gerba fan-boy as anyone, I love them both and think Simeon will continue to grow in England. But c'mon now - Friend MUST be incorporated. Mitchell left him out to dry in the 4-5-1, why don't we try play our best two strikers together!? What a novel idea I say. Don't we think Gerba would thrive off some balls being layed off in the box by Friend? Don't we thnink Friend will appreciate the support in pressuring up front, let alone having another body to draw away some defenders? --------Friend------------------ ----------------Gerba----------- Simpson------------------Johnson ----------Tiba------JDG--------- Kluka--Jakovic-McKenna--Stalteri -------------Lars--------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bingham Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Name one other Concacaf team that plays the old rigid 4-4-2 system.. teams have to have play a fluid system with players having the ability to adjust and adapt during a game..playing 4-4-2 with a striker/target man like Friend will only add to the robotic long ball/hoof it type of football favoured by Mitchell and their ilk..enough already its time Canada, under Hart, played the skilled style of soccer that has been lacking in our system for years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bingham Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 How can we possibly field a Canadian team without Dero..would you really choose a one dimensional Josh Simpson or a physically weak Johnson over him..surely not?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronto MB Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by bingham How can we possibly field a Canadian team without Dero..would you really choose a one dimensional Josh Simpson or a physically weak Johnson over him..surely not?? Canada's problem at the 2009 GC = lack of options in the final 3rd. How do we propose we fix that without adding an attacking option up front? Or do we just continue to play for 1-0 victories and continue to get upset when Honduras gets a mystery CONCACAF call and then stuff 11 men behind ball while recreating a mix between Olympic diving and scenes from a Greek tragedy? Why does a 4-4-2 = rigid football? Both of our strikers were on record during the tournament saying they would be more comofrtable in a 4-4-2. And safe to say given Friend's positive experiene in a strike partnership at 'Gladbach, he would agree as well. Can't we at least try? We've had 3 straight years of 4-5-1, and yes some good stylish play and a Gold Cup semi-final to our name - but can't we have a look at two strikers? We bombed out of WCQ because (amongst other things) we couldn't score at crucial times. How many chances did we have at 1-1 vs Jamaica and 1-2 vs Honduras. And we just did the same thing at the GC, controlled the game but couldn't score. As for De Rosario, I love the guy, one of my heroes growing up. But at this point he is going to have to compete for a spot as much as Johnson, Simpson and some of the younger guys. But of course he would be in my squad if he was willing, I guess I'm just unsure about his future commitment to the NT. Rant over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by bingham Name one other Concacaf team that plays the old rigid 4-4-2 system.. How about the US? Toronto MB gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Toronto MB Both of our strikers were on record during the tournament saying they would be more comofrtable in a 4-4-2. And safe to say given Friend's positive experiene in a strike partnership at 'Gladbach, he would agree as well. Gerba and Jackson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bingham Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Watch the game tonight and you will seea team that switches styles throughout the game. Mitchell's Canada could never do that, Hart's can and by the way we created a ton of chances in the Honduran game..the goals will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronto MB Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA Gerba and Jackson? Yup... Jackson: http://www.youtube.com/thevoyageurs#play/uploads/5/MgaQURxcc7o Gerba: http://www.youtube.com/thevoyageurs#play/uploads/13/0-G1KW51Pko Actually now that I re-watch the Gerba one, he does provide a case for both systems (4-4-2 v 4-5-1). So I guess its a case of his personal preference v a system that worked on the night against El Salvador. Bingham: I don't need to rewatch the game, I died enough inside the first time. Two points: 1. IF I DID REWATCH THE GAME TONIGHT - I would find that we served numerous good balls into the box and that no one had the physical presence and finishing ability to latch on and score. Though McKenna, Hutch, Simpson and Jackson weren't far off. I just personally believe that Friend would have thrived on that service. 2. After watching the three group-round games in person with great interest. I can't tell you the number of times that Laurence and I noted how we just had nobody in the box when we got into attacking position. Ali would shift wide to collect a ball, and there would be no one in front of goal. So instead, we had to work the ball back into midfield which allowed their defenders to reset. And even for Barcelona and Man United, it's tough to pass the ball through 10 guys at any level. I think that having two strikers offers these dimensions that would be useful in our game: - the ability to launch a counter-attack on their own, feeding on some one-two passing play - more bodies in the box to convert on wide service - the opportunity to create more space for our attackers, instead of Ali having 3 guys draped on his back at every touch - the simple truth that another striker (at least in theory) equates to another body in the final 3rd that should know how to bury a chance But yes, I am English, I do love a centre-forward who can use his head and I do very much enjoy having two strikers to look for in the box when I cross balls in from the right-wing for my university side. So maybe I'm just biased. Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Toronto MB I think that having two strikers offers these dimensions that would be useful in our game: - the ability to launch a counter-attack on their own, feeding on some one-two passing play - more bodies in the box to convert on wide service - the opportunity to create more space for our attackers, instead of Ali having 3 guys draped on his back at every touch - the simple truth that another striker (at least in theory) equates to another body in the final 3rd that should know how to bury a chance I prefer to have strikers that complement each other in skillset: Gerba/Friend alongside Radzinski/Hume/Jackson (maybe Hoillet in the future). Gerba and Friend don't give us a pace dimension which you need, notably on the counterattack. Also, I'm not convinced that our midfield personnel is that suited to having just two in the centre whereas we seemed to have the three guys more centrally located during this tourney. I don't know enough about higher level tactics so maybe my point is totally moot and off base, but as I have said before I don't think we have a really strong, ballwinning defensive presence in the middle of the park: DeGuzman is the best of those three IMO and though I thought Bernier had some crucial counterattack snuffing tackles on Costly, both he and Hutchinson also seem to get bundled off the ball too easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA I prefer to have strikers that complement each other in skillset: Gerba/Friend alongside Radzinski/Hume/Jackson (maybe Hoillet in the future). Gerba and Friend don't give us a pace dimension which you need, notably on the counterattack. Also, I'm not convinced that our midfield personnel is that suited to having just two in the centre whereas we seemed to have the three guys more centrally located during this tourney. I don't know enough about higher level tactics so maybe my point is totally moot and off base, but as I have said before I don't think we have a really strong, ballwinning defensive presence in the middle of the park: DeGuzman is the best of those three IMO and though I thought Bernier had some crucial counterattack snuffing tackles on Costly, both he and Hutchinson also seem to get bundled off the ball too easily. What about Serioux and De Guzman in the middle with Serioux playing the more defensive role? We could still have McKenna and Jakovic or Edgar playing on the back line. Put Hutch out wide (like he plays on his club team) and put someone on the other side (DeRo, Simpson, Johnson etc.). If we can get both Gerba and Friend out to the same friendly, I'd really like to see this tried to see if it works. I think they would work really well together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by El Hombre What about Serioux and De Guzman in the middle with Serioux playing the more defensive role? We could still have McKenna and Jakovic or Edgar playing on the back line. Put Hutch out wide (like he plays on his club team) and put someone on the other side (DeRo, Simpson, Johnson etc.). If we can get both Gerba and Friend out to the same friendly, I'd really like to see this tried to see if it works. I think they would work really well together. Didn't you and I talk about this before, but at the time you suggested Jakovic (an idea which I liked, by the way)? I'm getting a little worried about the recent wear and tear on Serioux for him to be pushed up into midfield at this stage of his career. I'd be curious to know what the usual formation our MNT players use at their respective club levels. For instance, I know that Jakovic plays at the centre of a three man back line for DC United. I'm (wild)guessing Bernier and Hutchinson play mid in a 4-4-2, Jackson in a two pronged strike force at the Gulls, etc. Might not mean much, but it gives you a faint glimpse into the tactical mindset from these guys come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA Didn't you and I talk about this before, but at the time you suggested Jakovic (an idea which I liked, by the way)? I'm getting a little worried about the recent wear and tear on Serioux for him to be pushed up into midfield at this stage of his career. Heh. you're right we might've already discussed this. Things are a bit of a blur right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by El Hombre Heh. you're right we might've already discussed this. Things are a bit of a blur right now. I guess doing those sudoku puzzles pays off sometimes;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronto MB Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA I prefer to have strikers that complement each other in skillset: Gerba/Friend alongside Radzinski/Hume/Jackson (maybe Hoillet in the future). Gerba and Friend don't give us a pace dimension which you need, notably on the counterattack. Also, I'm not convinced that our midfield personnel is that suited to having just two in the centre whereas we seemed to have the three guys more centrally located during this tourney. I don't know enough about higher level tactics so maybe my point is totally moot and off base, but as I have said before I don't think we have a really strong, ballwinning defensive presence in the middle of the park: DeGuzman is the best of those three IMO and though I thought Bernier had some crucial counterattack snuffing tackles on Costly, both he and Hutchinson also seem to get bundled off the ball too easily. I hear you 100% - if Hume gets back to top form, then he would probably be better at this role than Gerba. In terms of quality right now though, Gerba and Friend are still head and shoulders above the rest. And agreed that it may be a lot to ask of our midfield with only two in the centre, but you have to think that if JDG is asked to play his defensive hard-man midfield role for Canada, he can do that as well as anybody in CONCACAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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